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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> low points
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03/22/2017 02:53:58 PM · #1
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

The whole concept of this website is a photo contest in the first place.

The whole concept was to help each other become "better" photographers ... the contest format is simply the method used, and was intended in large part to get people to broaden their field of subject matter.


I do agree that the concept is to help each other become better photographers. I have learned so much from this site and the challenges. I've had some critiques that I felt were harsh but even those I learn from. There are a number of people who give critiques that have helped me so much. For me this is an excellent learning site.
03/22/2017 07:50:14 AM · #2
Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

The whole concept of this website is a photo contest in the first place.

The whole concept was to help each other become "better" photographers ... the contest format is simply the method used, and was intended in large part to get people to broaden their field of subject matter.
03/22/2017 05:29:05 AM · #3
The whole concept of this website is a photo contest in the first place.
Quality without results is pointless (in a contest). Results without quality is boring (in a contest).

03/21/2017 10:25:48 PM · #4
Originally posted by sjhuls:

That said I've come back with a new approach, scoring doesn't matter to me like it used to. What matters more is how I feel about the image and if it means something to me and if I am progressing as a photographer. Sometimes going for the high scores doesn't help you be a better photographer, it just makes you shoot things that you think will get high scores. I'm done with that.

As we said in the 60s, right-on ... ;-)
03/21/2017 09:38:00 PM · #5
I haven't been here in awhile but I do feel the last two photos I entered were a little low score wise. My photo currently in voting was taken by my cell phone, so it was sort of an experiment on how it would do. I used to be pretty good at guessing a scores, I would have guessed it to be a low 6. It is a little lower than that so, oh well. But I entered a free study about a year ago it was a good landscape in a unique area and really thought it would score at least a low to mid 6. It only got a mid 5, I was pretty discouraged at that point and haven't entered since until this last challenge.

That said I've come back with a new approach, scoring doesn't matter to me like it used to. What matters more is how I feel about the image and if it means something to me and if I am progressing as a photographer. Sometimes going for the high scores doesn't help you be a better photographer, it just makes you shoot things that you think will get high scores. I'm done with that.

I have been trying to use the whole scale more, trying to give as many low scores as high. I used to not give anything lower than a 5 maybe a 4 occasionally if a photo was really offensive. But now my 3's are about equal to my 8's my 4's equal to my 7's and most everything else falls into the 5 and 6 range. I rarely if ever give 9,10's or 1 and 2's but would use them if I felt something really deserved it.
03/21/2017 08:08:24 PM · #6
Originally posted by vawendy:

I guess the problem with the extremely low scores is that a couple of people seem to be ending up making the decisions at that point -- it's really hard to overcome that with so few votes.


Although there are fewer votes today which has an impact I still believe this is a semantic fallacy as it was six years ago:
A low vote and it's effect

The couple of people with high votes have an impact too. :-)
03/19/2017 03:16:25 PM · #7
Perspective accounts for a lot, too.
Grading systems by country
03/19/2017 12:50:34 AM · #8
I obviously like to do well. However I have a lot of images that don't gel with the voters, for one reason or other. I LIKE THEM. that is my yard stick and If the voters agree that they dont so be it. It took me 13 years to make the front page,and going by recent results it will be another 13 before I get there again !!!.
03/19/2017 12:43:38 AM · #9
Originally posted by zimple:

I have only just returned to the open challenges having made a few (9) attempts at open challenges before.
I previously found it frustrating that my scores were so low and that did make me little reluctant to contribute more. i must say that occasionally comments were useful though.
My latest attempt has at the moment a much lower score. It will again make me reluctant to contribute and I certainly would be unlikely while in this situation to pay to access more challenges and have even more of the same humiliation. sometimes comments are so blunt that they are cruel.
Sure I need to "man up" but equally well if I could obtain the same without te feeling of abject failure on another website somewhere I would go.
I suppose what I am saying is that the nature of some comments and the low scores are off putting.

But then again I am new, so it doesn't really matter.


It's a combination of things. There are a lot more places to post image where you will get fawning comments all day long. Other than make you feel good, they do very little to improve your photography.

But also, the contrast between "wow, this is the best picture I've ever seen" with "this has a lot of technical issue which keep it from being great" can be perceived as cruel.

The sad thing is that when we look for offense, we are certain to find it. Perhaps try to focus on what the commenter was saying, and not so much on how they were saying it?
03/18/2017 05:54:07 PM · #10
I have only just returned to the open challenges having made a few (9) attempts at open challenges before.
I previously found it frustrating that my scores were so low and that did make me little reluctant to contribute more. i must say that occasionally comments were useful though.
My latest attempt has at the moment a much lower score. It will again make me reluctant to contribute and I certainly would be unlikely while in this situation to pay to access more challenges and have even more of the same humiliation. sometimes comments are so blunt that they are cruel.
Sure I need to "man up" but equally well if I could obtain the same without te feeling of abject failure on another website somewhere I would go.
I suppose what I am saying is that the nature of some comments and the low scores are off putting.

But then again I am new, so it doesn't really matter.
03/04/2017 05:57:34 PM · #11

Ken, that is brilliant stuff. There really isn't anything to add to this historic conundrum.
Penny...I agree, totally!
03/04/2017 04:18:09 PM · #12
I think we can safely assume that most of the people who have posted in this thread vote a lot.... maybe even as much as I do, which is almost every challenge @ 100%. It's hard to believe that any of US will be changing our voting pattens as we've all been there, done that, tried it and gone back to what we know we do best and that is VOTE. IF everyone voted every challenge at 100% there's no question in my mind that voting would be fair... nothing to complain about.

But that doesn't explain how almost every challenge these days (has been for awhile) comes in at about 50% of participants who vote. I believe THAT is the crux of the problem. That THAT has resulted in new members/participants coming in and being able to cast low votes that have an ultimate impact on what we see day to day voting-wise is a shame. WE NEED MORE VOTERS.. especially those who are entering, and we need them to vote ALL.
03/04/2017 03:57:38 PM · #13
I posted this as an option for those who find value in it.
03/04/2017 03:36:57 PM · #14
That's an interesting way to see it, Don. Or the Jungian interpretation would be 'emotion/reason'.
Since 'emotions' feel 1's are snipes maybe the 'reasons' would be moved to moderate?
hee hee to you!
03/04/2017 03:07:21 PM · #15
it's always interesting to me how voting threads quickly separate the Feelers from the Thinkers on the Myers-Briggs scale.

As a Thinker, I have a scale and I want to use all of it. So a 1 just means the photo I like the least.

Of course, nobody is pure Thinker or Feeler, so as a Feeler I only occasionally go below 3.

But it's the big Feelers who treat 1 as an insult and have to project despicable characteristics on the person who gave it. They just can't imagine another way... even with numbers, it's all about feelings.

hee hee
03/04/2017 01:22:58 PM · #16
Originally posted by FromDaRock:

I have been fortunate enough to have 3 images that ribboned above a 7 on this site, but even then, each of them has multiple votes of 3 and lower. When viewing the results of the Ruckus challenge, my wife was kind of unhappy that there were multiple votes that low. I told her, some people don't like setup type of shots, I knew some would not like the processing (had one comment along that effect as well), some will see it as contrived, etc...

I can only hope that those votes were honest opinions and not strategic. Of course I would be happier if my photo appealed to everyone, but that is never going to happen, and I can accept that and just move on. Doing it strategically, on the other hand, would be very disappointing.


Your girls made me smile. Flashback to when mine were little girls. It also reminded me of my 2 pupper kids who like to get in a ruckus to show off.

Message edited by Bear_Music - parsed quote.
03/04/2017 01:22:25 PM · #17
Perhaps if those of us who don't use the lower end of the scale started using it, we might understand better. Scores would go down significantly, but it would be an interesting experiment.

I guess the problem with the extremely low scores is that a couple of people seem to be ending up making the decisions at that point -- it's really hard to overcome that with so few votes. I guess that's why I don't use the whole spectrum and just vote on the challenge by itself. (10 for the best photo and 1 for the worst). Because most challenges don't have photos worthy of a 10, and I don't know that I've seen hardly any photos worthy of a 1. I just judge the photo and so end up with lots of 5s and 6s.

And while people are getting a bit snarky on things, it really is worth talking things through, ad nauseam, because it's better than people just getting frustrated and taking their toys and leaving.

But then again, the closest I can come to explaining things to myself is that some people like pit bulls. I don't get it. I never will understand it. Same with chinese crested. But even more so bulldogs. That, heavy metal and rap always helps me understand how some people are proven to be completely beyond my understanding. :P
03/04/2017 12:29:07 PM · #18
Originally posted by pixelpig:

...
In a way, the lower score trend indicates our widening experience as photographers. So if you want your photos to be evaluated by very experienced eyes, this seems to be the perfect place.


This, I think, would be the reason for an overall downward trend (if such a trend exists). It simply becomes harder to be impressed, or impress upon others, when there is so much everyone has already seen. Even inexperienced photographers are inundated with visual imagery in this day and age.

I have been fortunate enough to have 3 images that ribboned above a 7 on this site, but even then, each of them has multiple votes of 3 and lower. When viewing the results of the Ruckus challenge, my wife was kind of unhappy that there were multiple votes that low. I told her, some people don't like setup type of shots, I knew some would not like the processing (had one comment along that effect as well), some will see it as contrived, etc...

I can only hope that those votes were honest opinions and not strategic. Of course I would be happier if my photo appealed to everyone, but that is never going to happen, and I can accept that and just move on. Doing it strategically, on the other hand, would be very disappointing.
03/04/2017 10:33:38 AM · #19
Originally posted by pixelpig:

So maybe in the effort to make everyone vote 5 or higher, the people who need to use the whole 1-10 scale will just stop voting. They are already scarcely commenting.

Or maybe just replace the 1-10 scale with a heart?


Or this?

As for commenting ... it's a catch-22. There's been many times I thought about commenting on an image I gave a lower score to but the problem is not many people comment anymore so if I make the only comment the vote I gave is shown in the Statistics section of the Voting results under Avg (Commenters). And while any negative PM received afterwards really doesn't bother me, it's just easier to avoid the potential fallout.
03/04/2017 10:29:10 AM · #20
Everyone for me starts at a 5....they took the time, gave the talent and they are in the game and playing ..that alone for me is worth something..then I go from there.

I too have noticed a lot of low ball voting which I feel has been for no other than someone's own purpose personal narcissism selfish ego reasons and I will leave it at that.. not all images I have seen ever deserved a 1.....

I know my images are not that great nor the best of the best and some do and have deserved 2, 3,4 just becuase of the way I did that image. It was something new I was trying out just to see and play.

I know they aren't horrid either and I refuse to lowball someone just because their shooting game is different than my own style and it met the challenge.

I think I am just now figuring out what I like to shoot and not shoot and DPC has been a huge help in getting me out of my comfort zone. It keeps me fresh with new ideas and styles. Not to mention the amazing friendships that have been made over the last couple years..that alone is why I stay. This community is like my second family to me.

For me, it doesn't matter if ppl whine and complain because nothing is done anyway and I keep moving on..it's not like I will ever get real money or prizes..it's digital ribbons, pats on the back and accolades. it won't pay my bills. If I ever Ribbon Great! I can't wait to enjoy that moment immensely. It won't change my life drastically to where I will be a millionaire.All it means I have bling...reallly, the personal blings mean more to me than the dpc ones...to move someone to have that given that is an awesome feeling and comments and that makes and moves me.

I have other more important things to really worry about than wether or not someone gives me a 1 on my image. I have friends who are fighting sickness and are hospitalized, a 14 yr old just got put on hospice yesterday because her brain tumor is back and the chemo stopped working and was given days...as for my images In the real world and offline, that image makes me the real money and it sells..because of it I was able to buy a 35 prime and some gels for my lights (which I have no idea even know how to use)..I don't care what the votes and numbers are in DPC... in the end it really doesn't mean anything..When I first started it really bothered me because I was in learning mode and I did take the personal..Now, I can care less and I do it for fun. Between the 1s and the real world somethings just really outweigh the 1s here. Somethings just are put in a bit of perspective of what truly is important.

This site is not for the soft hearted or easy pricked soul who gets there feelings hurt easily.

All I can do is that, I promise I will do what I can within my means with the time given to me to make a positive impact on DPC and the members that participate. I have learned so much and will ever be learning new things. I have passed that on.

I will have more time as my dad heads for surgery monday, I have actually commented again and have over 20% of the images..The comments and votes may not mean anything to you, take it for what it is and not personally..I will take that time again here and there. If you have issues message me.

By the way that pop up score reaosoning thing is great idea love it and it made me laugh esp of. 1,2,3... that's a good one.

Message edited by author 2017-03-04 10:34:24.
03/04/2017 09:10:29 AM · #21
So maybe in the effort to make everyone vote 5 or higher, the people who need to use the whole 1-10 scale will just stop voting. They are already scarcely commenting.

Or maybe just replace the 1-10 scale with a heart?
03/04/2017 03:43:42 AM · #22
Originally posted by markwiley:

Originally posted by Tiny:

I'm not sure why you think that people giving higher scores will "Make DPC fun again. ? .

Perhaps because getting votes of 1, 2, or 3 on an image you have created can be disheartening, discouraging, and depressing?


Maybe those who give the 1, 2, or 3s are secret mass murderers. They want you to jump off the bridge or maybe they don't remember that 1 says BAD. I feel that anyone who takes the time to enter the challengtes need something more than the word BAD as number one but maybe (NEEDS MORE WORK). That would make less people want to throw their camera out the window. How about it guys? Don't you remember when you were just starting out in 2002 or has the time simply clouded your brain? Number 10 just says good not SUPER DUPER OR WINNER but simply GOOD. Let's think on this, come up with a solution for this decade old montra and move forward. We're beating an old horse to death!

03/03/2017 02:57:28 PM · #23
Originally posted by pixelpig:

The difficulty for me is this--do I evaluate the photo in isolation, judging it against my rules of excellence, or do I evaluate the photo in competition against the other photos in the challenge, or do I evaluate it against all the photos I've ever seen? The more photos I see, the more difficult it seems to ignore them and judge the photo in isolation. The more photos I see, the more seldom I'm wowed. And cameras of today make it difficult to take a technically awful picture. Which is why I love the blurry mess photos so much.

I assume we are all in pursuit of excellence each in our own individual way.

When I first started voting here I hadn't seen that many photos, so the context of my evaluation has changed. In a way, the lower score trend indicates our widening experience as photographers. So if you want your photos to be evaluated by very experienced eyes, this seems to be the perfect place.


+++
03/03/2017 01:31:38 PM · #24
Originally posted by vawendy:


OK: if you give a score of 1, 2, or 3, a required pop-up comes up and you must fill out one of the following:

I'm trying to increase my placement by voting you down
Your photo really does suck this badly
I'm a narrow-minded jerk who doesn't begin to want to see any connection to the challenge
There are no Godzillas in this photo, so it stinks (I know I've seen that comment somewhere before...)
I'm giving you a 1 just to make you wonder why


Feel free to add to the list so that Langdon can implement this. :P


Best idea yet! 10! :)
03/03/2017 01:02:01 PM · #25
Barry, according to the numbers you submitted it looks like you give vote a lot of 1, 2's and 3's which is your prerogative.
As you said, you have been voting here for a long time and there are few images that look new and exciting. Maybe
you have to adjust your expectations and consider the morale and health of the site. Or maybe when you give votes
of 3 and under you might make a comment as to why so that you might help the photographer.

Yes votes of 1,2 and 3 are just as valid as 8,9 and 10 but the consequences are punishing and demoralizing for people who
are not thick skinned. How many times have you read posts from people who leave the site because they are tired of the
constant low votes without explanation.

If you want DP to flourish and to be around for a while you might reconsider the way you vote. If you feel compelled to give
out 1,2, and 3's you might consider a comment as to why.
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