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11/26/2005 08:31:41 AM · #1 |
| Yes a ridiculous incident - now rectified by a mature compromise, which weighs in on Setzler's concerns and site responsibility. |
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11/26/2005 05:12:03 AM · #2 |
So waht happened to all the negative comments? Did they get removed in the process of locking the image?
I think this whole episode is fabulously ridiculous, and a bit of growing up should be done.
Ed |
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11/26/2005 04:48:31 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by andersbs:
i dont blame john for wanting the image removed if it was still attracting political pot shot comments. i havnt seen the comments left, but surely commmenting (negativly) on a picture should try to show the photographer different perspectives that could have been taken, or changes in composition (or at the very least what THEY would have changed)- not as an outlet for uninformed xenophobia. but maybe im missing something.... |
Well I see all comments as a positive thing, any image that can evoke political/racial/religious comments must have been strong enough for the viewer to comment positive or negative, whatever, you have captured the attention of the audience.
I know this could be seen as a simplistic view and could also be taken to the extreme with offensive images used for comment but as photographers we want to stir emotion and have viewers think and comment about our images. |
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11/26/2005 04:34:11 AM · #4 |
| i dont blame john for wanting the image removed if it was still attracting political pot shot comments. i havnt seen the comments left, but surely commmenting (negativly) on a picture should try to show the photographer different perspectives that could have been taken, or changes in composition (or at the very least what THEY would have changed)- not as an outlet for uninformed xenophobia. but maybe im missing something.... |
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11/26/2005 03:25:06 AM · #5 |
For what it's worth, the image is back in place and the thread's been locked against further comments. Hoever, oddly enough, there are now two blue ribbons showing for that challenge...
R. |
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11/08/2005 03:41:46 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by ursula:
I agree with you. What I was trying to get at though is that mk should not have to feel bad for having pulled the picture. |
absolutely agree with that part. You're so smart, Ursula...that's why people like you :) |
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11/08/2005 03:41:32 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
A good number of the comments that come in on that image these days are simple political slams. |
I wonder if it ever got any "This technique has been used too many times" comments. Mine sure did! :)
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I, as just another DPC'er, have no problem with any of this. You certainly have a right to request that the photo be removed, and if those in authority decide to honor your request and remove the photo, who am I to say otherwise? In my opinion it's strictly private business between you and the owners of the web site.
As for the political slams, I think it's a shame that some people seem incapable of restricting their comments to the relative merits of the photo in question and leaving their political views out of the discussion. There are places that (for some strange and probably demented reason) such political discussion is appropriate. To those out there that feel compelled to excrete such nonsense, I suggest you go find some other place to grind your axe.
Rock on Jim! ;)
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11/08/2005 03:39:23 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Pedro:
Originally posted by ursula:
As much as I think the comments on "Liberty and Justice" are part of a healthy discussion at DPChallenge, I think that mk did well in honouring John's private request to DQ his image because the commenting was hurtful to him. It always hurts to receive nasty comments on any image, more so if the image is personally meaningful. |
not so sure i agree with that. I'm assuming they weren't personal attacks on Setz, nor were they attacks on the actual photo. Even if they were attacks on the image...so what? John has said many times that it wasn't an original photo in the first place - he saw it in a magazine and replicated it. I don't see that strong a 'personal' connection to the photo itself.
That said, I think anyone using a forum such as this for their political soapbox is kind of pathetic. Racial, cultural, or political commentaries don't belong in the critique boxes of photographs. That's not what the site is about in my opinion, and I understand why such comments would upset John.
It was a good photo that deserved to place well, and we compromise the integrity of the site and its practices by removing it.
P |
I agree with you. What I was trying to get at though is that mk should not have to feel bad for having pulled the picture. And John is entitled to feel hurt by comments.
I am not saying I agree with the picture being pulled.
Message edited by author 2005-11-08 15:41:26.
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11/08/2005 03:37:00 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by ursula:
As much as I think the comments on "Liberty and Justice" are part of a healthy discussion at DPChallenge, I think that mk did well in honouring John's private request to DQ his image because the commenting was hurtful to him. It always hurts to receive nasty comments on any image, more so if the image is personally meaningful. |
not so sure i agree with that. I'm assuming they weren't personal attacks on Setz, nor were they attacks on the actual photo. Even if they were attacks on the image...so what? John has said many times that it wasn't an original photo in the first place - he saw it in a magazine and replicated it. I don't see that strong a 'personal' connection to the photo itself.
That said, I think anyone using a forum such as this for their political soapbox is kind of pathetic. Racial, cultural, or political commentaries don't belong in the critique boxes of photographs. That's not what the site is about in my opinion, and I understand why such comments would upset John.
It was a good photo that deserved to place well, and we compromise the integrity of the site and its practices by removing it.
P |
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11/08/2005 03:21:19 PM · #10 |
As much as I think the comments on "Liberty and Justice" are part of a healthy discussion at DPChallenge, I think that mk did well in honouring John's private request to DQ his image because the commenting was hurtful to him. It always hurts to receive nasty comments on any image, more so if the image is personally meaningful.
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11/08/2005 03:08:03 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by kiwiness:
Maybe you should try! |
OK, hang on while I go fire off some rude comments on THIS shot... ;-) |
Come on hit me mista!! :) |
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11/08/2005 02:53:33 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by kiwiness:
Maybe you should try! |
OK, hang on while I go fire off some rude comments on THIS shot... ;-) |
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11/08/2005 02:43:18 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by vonautsch:
Let met get this straight. The best way for someone of my photographic calibur to obtain a ribbon in a challenge is to politically attack all photos that finished ahead of me until the photographers decide to remove them for the contest, effectively bumping my position up to ribbon status.
Something seems a little out of place. |
Maybe you should try! It sure helped Magnetic9999 to suddenly get a yellow ribbon in a challenge that finished years ago. And he doesn't even know it :) |
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11/08/2005 02:39:28 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by vonautsch:
Let met get this straight. The best way for someone of my photographic calibur to obtain a ribbon in a challenge is to politically attack all photos that finished ahead of me until the photographers decide to remove them for the contest, effectively bumping my position up to ribbon status.
Something seems a little out of place. |
It probably won't get you a ribbon, but it could be an effective method for getting thrown off the site!
=o
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11/08/2005 02:36:41 PM · #15 |
Let met get this straight. The best way for someone of my photographic calibur to obtain a ribbon in a challenge is to politically attack all photos that finished ahead of me until the photographers decide to remove them for the contest, effectively bumping my position up to ribbon status.
Something seems a little out of place.
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11/08/2005 02:04:44 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Perhaps the way the site has been managed in the interim has allowed it to drift to a place where what was considerable undesirable then is condoned today...Perhaps there is a better way to run a photography site. |
Perhaps you should create a photography site and manage it the way you want instead of continuously finding things wrong with this one. |
Thank you very much for that suggestion, so courteous of you.
I don't think of it as finding things wrong with the site, but rather as trying to keep it as good as it has been in the past when it taught us both almost everything we know about digital photography. And to go beyond that when possible to make it an even better place. It would please me no end if you would join in the effort.
Message edited by author 2005-11-08 14:05:56.
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11/08/2005 10:13:12 AM · #17 |
I thought about this overnight and again this morning.
jmseltzer, you SAY you are very patriotic but to me, you just threw that patroitism out the door when you removed the one great symbol of this country and the one last item in this country that most people can still come together on.
What is that saying about our flag? "These colors don't run or burn." How about they don't hide either? You asking to have that photograph removed is the same as saying you are ashamed of those colors and ashamed of your country, IMHO. Someone joked that the terrorists won on this one, I don't think it's a joke, they do win everytime someone hides their true colors and they don't stand up for what they believe.
So some people made some remarks you didn't like, SO WHAT? Isn't that part of what makes this country so great is that we are all entitled to our opinion. You threw that privilage out the window also when you took down your shot with all it's comments, it's the same as censorship. One of our first basic freedoms is the freedom of speech. Take that away and it will all start to crumble.
You claim to be patriotic but the moment that comes under fire you hide those colors and deprive the rest of the world a great and wonderful and unique way of showing off those colors and that symbol that represents all of us.
Deannda
Message edited by author 2005-11-08 10:13:39. |
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11/08/2005 09:13:28 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
... I actually thought that a photographer/contest site would not really attract that type of attitude and opinion. |
Perhaps the way the site has been managed in the interim has allowed it to drift to a place where what was considerable undesirable then is condoned today. |
You might consider that the world's attutude toward the U.S. has become more polarized in the last few years. This has nothing to do with your photo or the management of DPC. Even the cleanest, best-prepared picnic will attract a few flies over time. |
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11/08/2005 09:11:04 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Perhaps the way the site has been managed in the interim has allowed it to drift to a place where what was considerable undesirable then is condoned today...Perhaps there is a better way to run a photography site. |
Perhaps you should create a photography site and manage it the way you want instead of continuously finding things wrong with this one.
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11/08/2005 09:03:51 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
... I actually thought that a photographer/contest site would not really attract that type of attitude and opinion. I must have been quite naive.
...I just never imagined that it would run over into a simple digital photo contest. ... |
Perhaps you were not so naive. Perhaps your assumptions about the site were correct at the time you submitted that much appreciated image. Perhaps the way the site has been managed in the interim has allowed it to drift to a place where what was considerable undesirable then is condoned today.
The SOP of the internet is to try to appeal to as many people as possible, and the situation of John's American Flag image is a byproduct of that. Perhaps there is a better way to run a photography site.
Message edited by author 2005-11-08 09:05:10.
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11/08/2005 02:42:29 AM · #21 |
John, I haven't always agreed with some of the stands you've taken -- but this one I understand. It is a shame those with nothing good to say are so often unable to know when to shut-up!
It is your image, and you can of course do as you please with it. However I have an observation i would like for you to take away from this discussion -- the image has been on this site for several years but had not become 'old hat'; indeed, it took less than 24 hrs. for it to be missed. I think that says quite a bit about the positive impact of the image, regardless of the negative that filters in from time to time.
David
Message edited by author 2005-11-08 02:42:56.
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11/08/2005 02:35:43 AM · #22 |
| Will prove to be a bad precedent....... egotistical disregard and conceited tampering with the record. Unnecessary. |
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11/08/2005 02:08:43 AM · #23 |
...sorry. Had to. :) |
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11/08/2005 12:27:26 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by Riggs:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I wish I had the foresight to have know better than to submit this photo in the beginning. |
I dont know what kind of comments you got, but I bet 99 percent of the peeps here loved it.
A darn shame. |
A good number of the comments that come in on that image these days are simple political slams. They don't come in that often, but they do continue to come in. After a couple years of it, it's grinding on my nerves and making me wish that I had never bothered to submit that photo. At the time I submitted it, I had no idea that an online community, whether it be international or not, would act in such a way. I actually thought that a photographer/contest site would not really attract that type of attitude and opinion. I must have been quite naive.
I am simply a patriotic person. I can't really understand the other side of the fence as much because I haven't lived there. I do know that there are plenty of people around the world who despise the US for a multitude of reasons. I just never imagined that it would run over into a simple digital photo contest.
I often believe that Americans are the only people on the planet who hold a patriotic attitude. I don't see it spew forth as much from other areas of the world as it does here.
I admit to being thin-skinned on this particular issue. It just bugs me at a personal level. Everyone everywhere holds something dear to their hearts. One of mine happens to be patriotism. I just don't have it in ME to go publically bash other people's fundamental beliefs. To each, his own... |
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11/08/2005 12:22:53 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I wish I had the foresight to have know better than to submit this photo in the beginning. |
Many of us could say that about MOST of our entries! LOL! |
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