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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Photo inside of x-ray scanner
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05/17/2010 11:50:40 AM · #1
I will be flying tomorrow and I am taking my Canon 400D with me. I was wondering if anyone has ever attempted to take a long exposure with the lenses cap on as your camera is traveling though an x-ray scanner. I would assume that the x-ray photons would be capable of exposing the CMOS imaging sensor inside. I am curious to see what kind of pattern results.
05/17/2010 12:23:18 PM · #2
Originally posted by dpcollins:

I will be flying tomorrow and I am taking my Canon 400D with me. I was wondering if anyone has ever attempted to take a long exposure with the lenses cap on as your camera is traveling though an x-ray scanner. I would assume that the x-ray photons would be capable of exposing the CMOS imaging sensor inside. I am curious to see what kind of pattern results.


WOW!

Never ever thought of that. Mission approved. Report back ASAP. :)
05/17/2010 12:33:02 PM · #3
my prediction is it will be a straight white picture. Just a guess though.
05/17/2010 12:41:18 PM · #4
Originally posted by Citadel:

my prediction is it will be a straight white picture. Just a guess though.


My guess is that the xray is a concentrated enough beam/line that if you time the shutter and delay timer right you might get something. Sad thing it that you only get one shot without Homeland Security being called. :)
05/17/2010 12:47:29 PM · #5
Originally posted by klkitchens:

My guess is that the xray is a concentrated enough beam/line that if you time the shutter and delay timer right you might get something. Sad thing it that you only get one shot without Homeland Security being called. :)


I was actually thinking about that. If the shutter and mirror move while it is in the machine, they would be able to see it on the monitor. My solution is to construct a tiny little dongle to attach to the remote trigger port so that it is always being triggered. That way, I'll have it on bulb and get a several minute exposure with no moving parts.
05/17/2010 01:04:30 PM · #6
Originally posted by dpcollins:

Originally posted by klkitchens:

My guess is that the xray is a concentrated enough beam/line that if you time the shutter and delay timer right you might get something. Sad thing it that you only get one shot without Homeland Security being called. :)


I was actually thinking about that. If the shutter and mirror move while it is in the machine, they would be able to see it on the monitor. My solution is to construct a tiny little dongle to attach to the remote trigger port so that it is always being triggered. That way, I'll have it on bulb and get a several minute exposure with no moving parts.


For some reason I get the feeling that doing that mod might attract a bit of attention from them...
05/17/2010 01:07:31 PM · #7
Originally posted by Ken:

Originally posted by dpcollins:

Originally posted by klkitchens:

My guess is that the xray is a concentrated enough beam/line that if you time the shutter and delay timer right you might get something. Sad thing it that you only get one shot without Homeland Security being called. :)


I was actually thinking about that. If the shutter and mirror move while it is in the machine, they would be able to see it on the monitor. My solution is to construct a tiny little dongle to attach to the remote trigger port so that it is always being triggered. That way, I'll have it on bulb and get a several minute exposure with no moving parts.


For some reason I get the feeling that doing that mod might attract a bit of attention from them...


Meh worst case scenario he gets 'interviewed' for a short bit with a pat down and possible cavity search...

Let us know how you make out, Im interested to see the pictures *snicker*
05/17/2010 01:22:59 PM · #8
Originally posted by PhotoDave:

Originally posted by Ken:

Originally posted by dpcollins:

Originally posted by klkitchens:

My guess is that the xray is a concentrated enough beam/line that if you time the shutter and delay timer right you might get something. Sad thing it that you only get one shot without Homeland Security being called. :)


I was actually thinking about that. If the shutter and mirror move while it is in the machine, they would be able to see it on the monitor. My solution is to construct a tiny little dongle to attach to the remote trigger port so that it is always being triggered. That way, I'll have it on bulb and get a several minute exposure with no moving parts.


For some reason I get the feeling that doing that mod might attract a bit of attention from them...


Meh worst case scenario he gets 'interviewed' for a short bit with a pat down and possible cavity search...

Let us know how you make out, Im interested to see the pictures *snicker*


Yeah, nobody wants a cavity search without a make out session included.
05/17/2010 01:44:30 PM · #9
Originally posted by PhotoDave:

Originally posted by Ken:

Originally posted by dpcollins:

Originally posted by klkitchens:

My guess is that the xray is a concentrated enough beam/line that if you time the shutter and delay timer right you might get something. Sad thing it that you only get one shot without Homeland Security being called. :)


I was actually thinking about that. If the shutter and mirror move while it is in the machine, they would be able to see it on the monitor. My solution is to construct a tiny little dongle to attach to the remote trigger port so that it is always being triggered. That way, I'll have it on bulb and get a several minute exposure with no moving parts.


For some reason I get the feeling that doing that mod might attract a bit of attention from them...


Meh worst case scenario he gets 'interviewed' for a short bit with a pat down and possible cavity search...

Let us know how you make out, Im interested to see the pictures *snicker*


Really the worst case scenario is this:

Supervisor trying to make name for himself decides the "tiny little dongle" is some sort of timing device (which it is -in a way) and that dpcollins is attempting to somehow use his camera to "subvert" the x-ray machine in order to mask something else he's bringing through. Said supervisor than tasers Mr. dpcollins and anyone travelling with him. Mr. dpcollins then awakes to find himself in a room, naked and with a strange soreness in his general buttocks region and facing a group of FBI agents, who happen to be upset over not being involved in the Times Square bombing case as they too are looking to make names for themselves, preparing a megadose of some sort of something that makes sodium pentothol look like aspirin. The next time Mr. dpcollins awakes he's being called Sheena 'the Senorita' Collins in a Tiajuana "social club" and has no idea who he (now she) is and still can't explain that strange soreness in his buttocks.

That would be the worst case.
05/17/2010 08:33:03 PM · #10
Originally posted by vxpra:

Supervisor trying to make name for himself decides the "tiny little dongle" is some sort of timing device (which it is -in a way) and that dpcollins is attempting to somehow use his camera to "subvert" the x-ray machine in order to mask something else he's bringing through. Said supervisor than tasers Mr. dpcollins and anyone travelling with him. Mr. dpcollins then awakes to find himself in a room, naked and with a strange soreness in his general buttocks region and facing a group of FBI agents, who happen to be upset over not being involved in the Times Square bombing case as they too are looking to make names for themselves, preparing a megadose of some sort of something that makes sodium pentothol look like aspirin. The next time Mr. dpcollins awakes he's being called Sheena 'the Senorita' Collins in a Tiajuana "social club" and has no idea who he (now she) is and still can't explain that strange soreness in his buttocks.

That would be the worst case.


Yes indeed... people doing their job is really a ploy designed to allow them to make a name for themselves. What a pile of bovine excrement.

Ray

Message edited by author 2010-05-17 20:58:34.
05/17/2010 08:37:33 PM · #11
I used to have a "remote" trigger for my film SLR. It had a velcro strap and a plunger to push the shutter. That would work. Tape too.
05/17/2010 09:07:42 PM · #12
If CMOS sensors are sensitive to Xray, then you will likely see the afore predicted white image, or a shade of gray. X-Ray images are the "shadow" cast by objects in the beam. Your camera lens will not focus the X-rays. So, your sensor will only see the small patch the size of the sensor. You would have to have something smaller, or with details smaller than your sensor, close to your sensor to see much of anything.

Think about the times you've had X-rays done. For security machines, it is the same deal except the camera is looking at a fluorescent screen instead of the negative.
05/17/2010 09:46:44 PM · #13
If i was trying this I'd keep the lens cap on, ISO at 100, Bulb setting (I said bulb setting), noise reduction, on, and use a wired remote wrapping the cord around the lens to semi hid it. I'd set the camera along with my c-phone on top of my jacket so all was in view for the scanner operator. As I set the camera down I'd trigger the remote and lock it open.

After passing through the scanner, release the remote. If I got caught now, I'd tell the exactly what I was trying to do. They'd probably be as curious as you and support the experiment. If not, you can always delete the pic. My guess, nothing will happen that wouldn't have happened if you did the same thing but didn't send your camera through the scanner.
05/17/2010 10:20:15 PM · #14
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by vxpra:

Supervisor trying to make name for himself decides the "tiny little dongle" is some sort of timing device (which it is -in a way) and that dpcollins is attempting to somehow use his camera to "subvert" the x-ray machine in order to mask something else he's bringing through. Said supervisor than tasers Mr. dpcollins and anyone travelling with him. Mr. dpcollins then awakes to find himself in a room, naked and with a strange soreness in his general buttocks region and facing a group of FBI agents, who happen to be upset over not being involved in the Times Square bombing case as they too are looking to make names for themselves, preparing a megadose of some sort of something that makes sodium pentothol look like aspirin. The next time Mr. dpcollins awakes he's being called Sheena 'the Senorita' Collins in a Tiajuana "social club" and has no idea who he (now she) is and still can't explain that strange soreness in his buttocks.

That would be the worst case.


Yes indeed... people doing their job is really a ploy designed to allow them to make a name for themselves. What a pile of bovine excrement.

Ray


Since you don't know what this means:

Joke: a humorous anecdote or remark intended to provoke laughter

Now I remember why I self-banished myself from the forums and stopped being a paying member. Maybe its time to quit this place altogether.
05/18/2010 05:50:47 PM · #15
Originally posted by vxpra:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by vxpra:

Supervisor trying to make name for himself decides the "tiny little dongle" is some sort of timing device (which it is -in a way) and that dpcollins is attempting to somehow use his camera to "subvert" the x-ray machine in order to mask something else he's bringing through. Said supervisor than tasers Mr. dpcollins and anyone travelling with him. Mr. dpcollins then awakes to find himself in a room, naked and with a strange soreness in his general buttocks region and facing a group of FBI agents, who happen to be upset over not being involved in the Times Square bombing case as they too are looking to make names for themselves, preparing a megadose of some sort of something that makes sodium pentothol look like aspirin. The next time Mr. dpcollins awakes he's being called Sheena 'the Senorita' Collins in a Tiajuana "social club" and has no idea who he (now she) is and still can't explain that strange soreness in his buttocks.

That would be the worst case.


Yes indeed... people doing their job is really a ploy designed to allow them to make a name for themselves. What a pile of bovine excrement.

Ray


Since you don't know what this means:

Joke: a humorous anecdote or remark intended to provoke laughter

Now I remember why I self-banished myself from the forums and stopped being a paying member. Maybe its time to quit this place altogether.


Do believe me when I tell you that I am quite familiar with jokes, mirth, hilarity, humour and other things that make people smile, chuckle, guffaw and break into unrestrained fits of laughter ... most of which are brought upon by things that are funny.

Unfortunately, nothing in your post was funny... hence my response.

Do have a good day.

Ray

05/23/2010 12:31:21 PM · #16
I'm back from my trip with results. On my first pass through security, I set the camera to 100 ISO and ran it on Bulb for what ended up being 100 s at F/22. I was unsatisfied with the differences between the in x-ray shot and the control shot taken right after it. There were definitely noticeable differences, but I want the effect to be more pronounced.

On my second pass through security, I had it set to 1600 ISO and got an 84 s exposure at F/4. The differences this time were strong. The baseline image shows a few hot pixels and low level noise. The in x-ray shot contains those same artifacts plus a randomly distributed collection of other pixels turned on. The image did not turn out heavily white as expected.

In X-ray machine:
http://imgur.com/6j2NR.jpg

Control image:
http://imgur.com/CAKuy.jpg

Enhanced difference image (noise and hot pixels removed):
http://i.imgur.com/Ouegs.jpg

Here is a photo of the testing apparatus. No one even gave it a second glance.
http://i.imgur.com/xtZib.jpg

Message edited by karmat - plz use urls or thumbs (or small pictures) for images in threads, thankyou.
05/23/2010 12:48:24 PM · #17
What causes the white/light spots then?
05/23/2010 12:59:15 PM · #18
Holy big images Batman!

(Read the forum rules... These need to be linked, or use thumbnails...)

Very interesting experiment, thanks for sharing..

Now fix this thread, remove the images, and replace them with links or something/anything :)

ETA: Thanks 811.gif karmat :)

Message edited by author 2010-05-23 21:51:36.
05/23/2010 01:52:12 PM · #19
Originally posted by macwilyum:

What causes the white/light spots then?


I feel I'm some what qualified to answer this question (please have a look at my profile).... ; )

The white spots are probably caused by the way some of the electrons are interacting with their environment. They are bouncing around like crazy off of all the different surfaces and various materials traveling through the machine. As they do this they are loosing energy and dropping down into different K-shell, or energy ranges. As the energy drops, so does the wavelength, and I'm guessing this is causing the white spots. The way X-rays used to work, when we used film, is that the the film was sandwiched inside a cassette. The cassette has either green or blue phosphors inside. When X-rays hit the phosphors they would glow in the pattern of the xrays getting through, which is why when you look at the final product it is a negative of the anatomy inside (bones and other dense structures are white unexposed areas). Now we have digital Xrays that work on a whole different set of rules. The cassettes we use now no longer have light sensitive film inside. The IP plates inside the new cassettes are "charged" with electrons waiting to get knocked out of the way. Film in your old school slrs would always get exposed because of the energy passing through it reacting with the emulsion layers (light is energy just on a different wavelength). You could get a latent image on regular film if you were to set it on a surface with a really dense object setting on top and bombarding it with xrays from one direction. The Xrays would be blocked by the whole object and you would see an out line of the object.

Sorry to bore you with all the info. : )
05/23/2010 05:46:05 PM · #20
My goodness, it's full of stars!
05/23/2010 07:38:45 PM · #21
The last time I flew (May 5th, 2010), they removed my camera equipment from my carry on luggage and checked it for explosives. Not sure that I would try this as there seems to be more focus (no pun intended) on examining electronic gear lately.

Message edited by author 2010-05-23 19:39:30.
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