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07/05/2010 07:34:50 AM · #1 |
While voting/looking at the different photos that have been entered into the Street Portraiture challenge i've noticed that a large amount lack facial expression.
To me facial expression makes all the difference in portray photography, separating a great shot from an average one and im saddened to see how few photos actually contain any amount of emotion by the subject.
The eyes especially are a key to a person's soul, they can make such a difference in a photo.
(note that i have not actually entered into the challenge)
what are your thoughts on this? |
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07/05/2010 07:59:56 AM · #2 |
I think that's being quite harsh. These are not professional models, these are people that have just been approached by a stranger and asked if they would mind having their picture taken. Mine is one of the more expressionless shots (though I think there's and intensity there). If it was a candid, I could have gotten a much better shot, but this is not a person who's used to posing for the camera. It would have been much easier to use a longer lens and get a shot in an unguarded moment, then we could have waited for the perfect shot. I thought that people did a wonderful job at this challenge.
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07/05/2010 08:05:34 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
I think that's being quite harsh. These are not professional models, these are people that have just been approached by a stranger and asked if they would mind having their picture taken. Mine is one of the more expressionless shots (though I think there's and intensity there). If it was a candid, I could have gotten a much better shot, but this is not a person who's used to posing for the camera. It would have been much easier to use a longer lens and get a shot in an unguarded moment, then we could have waited for the perfect shot. I thought that people did a wonderful job at this challenge. |
While I agree that most of these guys are not professional models (some are based on what I can see), I think it is those images that capture the character of the person that deserve the better scores. So yes, expressions is what I am voting on, as well as technical excellence, but expressions and life gets most of my score.... |
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07/05/2010 08:22:57 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
While I agree that most of these guys are not professional models (some are based on what I can see), I think it is those images that capture the character of the person that deserve the better scores. So yes, expressions is what I am voting on, as well as technical excellence, but expressions and life gets most of my score.... |
i agree with Peter, many of my higher votes are finished on the photograph more close to interesting facial expressions... |
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07/05/2010 08:37:00 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
I think that's being quite harsh. These are not professional models, these are people that have just been approached by a stranger and asked if they would mind having their picture taken. Mine is one of the more expressionless shots (though I think there's and intensity there). If it was a candid, I could have gotten a much better shot, but this is not a person who's used to posing for the camera. It would have been much easier to use a longer lens and get a shot in an unguarded moment, then we could have waited for the perfect shot. I thought that people did a wonderful job at this challenge. |
When I saw this challenge, I immediately thought of  jmsetzler's 1000 Faces project. Setz, I think, has nailed the way to build rapport with a stranger and capture a slice of their personality.
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07/05/2010 08:43:34 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by L2:
Originally posted by vawendy:
I think that's being quite harsh. These are not professional models, these are people that have just been approached by a stranger and asked if they would mind having their picture taken. Mine is one of the more expressionless shots (though I think there's and intensity there). If it was a candid, I could have gotten a much better shot, but this is not a person who's used to posing for the camera. It would have been much easier to use a longer lens and get a shot in an unguarded moment, then we could have waited for the perfect shot. I thought that people did a wonderful job at this challenge. |
When I saw this challenge, I immediately thought of jmsetzler's 1000 Faces project. Setz, I think, has nailed the way to build rapport with a stranger and capture a slice of their personality. |
That is a great project...now if I could just build up the nerve to start something like this..... |
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07/05/2010 10:08:19 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by L2:
Originally posted by vawendy:
I think that's being quite harsh. These are not professional models, these are people that have just been approached by a stranger and asked if they would mind having their picture taken. Mine is one of the more expressionless shots (though I think there's and intensity there). If it was a candid, I could have gotten a much better shot, but this is not a person who's used to posing for the camera. It would have been much easier to use a longer lens and get a shot in an unguarded moment, then we could have waited for the perfect shot. I thought that people did a wonderful job at this challenge. |
When I saw this challenge, I immediately thought of jmsetzler's 1000 Faces project. Setz, I think, has nailed the way to build rapport with a stranger and capture a slice of their personality. |
That is a great project...now if I could just build up the nerve to start something like this..... |
In looking at them, I'm wondering if people would consider many of those lacking facial expressions... They don't look any different than the majority of shots in the current challenge. (But then again, I still disagree with the OP :)
Message edited by author 2010-07-05 10:13:08.
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07/05/2010 10:11:05 AM · #8 |
| Maybe we should have "the blank stare" competition??? I agree with most of what has been said here. |
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07/05/2010 10:28:59 AM · #9 |
| Neather of my 10 votes have expression, had my top choice of those had a smile it would have cost 2-3 points.. |
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07/05/2010 10:32:52 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by alans_world:
Neather of my 10 votes have expression, had my top choice of those had a smile it would have cost 2-3 points.. |
I don't think we are talking about smiles or frowns, but what the face and eyes are doing. |
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07/05/2010 10:34:33 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by alans_world:
Neather of my 10 votes have expression, had my top choice of those had a smile it would have cost 2-3 points.. |
I don't think we are talking about smiles or frowns, but what the face and eyes are doing. |
Exactly!! |
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07/05/2010 10:54:46 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by alans_world:
Neather of my 10 votes have expression, had my top choice of those had a smile it would have cost 2-3 points.. |
But if the subject is smiling, does that make the shot somehow a candid? Or does the definition of "portraiture" imply or require a serious expression? Just wondering about the reason for the point deduction. |
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07/05/2010 10:58:36 AM · #13 |
I see, in the master's book, the whole gamut of emotion and that is what makes his presentation so incredibly interesting. To look into the eyes of a stranger and see into their thoughts for a moment in time and then to share those moments with those of us who care to notice.
What is a blank stare anyway - is it fear? is it embarassment? is it surprise? I think the eyes tell the story.
Smiles and frowns don't escape the eyes either.
There are many many wonderful portraits and personalities entered into this challenge. Engage yourself. |
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07/05/2010 11:07:57 AM · #14 |
Hmmm, without giving away too much. Had the photo in question had a smile or other obvious emotion, it would have taken away from what I liked about it, and also create doubt about previous interaction.
Don't get me wrong there are several smiles in my 8+ scores, and my average vote was in the high 6's.
Message edited by author 2010-07-05 11:21:47. |
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07/05/2010 11:46:29 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by alans_world:
Hmmm, without giving away too much. Had the photo in question had a smile or other obvious emotion, it would have taken away from what I liked about it, and also create doubt about previous interaction.
Don't get me wrong there are several smiles in my 8+ scores, and my average vote was in the high 6's. |
I'm just wondering about the various viewpoints as they might apply to meeting the challenge and my voting. I've looked through the shots and voted on a few, and some do appear to be candids which I may score lower. But otherwise, I don't think that I will try to make a determination as to previous interaction based on the expression, although that is certainly a valid criteria.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning anyone's voting reasons or criteria in a bad way. Just trying to better understand the viewpoints on the challenge criteria and learn a little bit more in the process. :) |
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07/05/2010 11:48:18 AM · #16 |
My criteria for voting in this challenge:
Do I get a sense of the person? If I do, the score is good. |
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07/05/2010 12:00:42 PM · #17 |
| In my opinion, lack of previous interaction is the challenge in this one. The story, the feel add or subtract from that. |
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07/05/2010 12:15:55 PM · #18 |
| I found that interacting with the the subject and snapping away while they chatted about themselves tended to produce those expressions and interest. Not all expressions are smiles, however. The subject in one of my outtakes is quite stressed and dejected looking. |
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07/05/2010 12:16:52 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by L2:
When I saw this challenge, I immediately thought of jmsetzler's 1000 Faces project. Setz, I think, has nailed the way to build rapport with a stranger and capture a slice of their personality. |
Compositionally speaking that's a pretty uninspired set of crops. There are a few good images there but artistically... Just an opinion but that set isn't imho a benchmark by my eye. Some of the crops even hurt the images, in many cases...again, just an opinion.
As for expressions, it's hard to apply a standard, straight across the board and then claim to be making a fair judgment on an image. Sometimes a dead stare says quite a bit about a person...more than a fake smile or a set-up sexy pose, more often than not...
When looking at the images entered in the Challenge I was thinking about the degree of difficulty it might have been approaching some of the people, which I may or may not way into my voting. Not to pick on John but the Civil War people wouldn't have factored much to me...or any portraits like them.
Penny mentions "the master's book" and I'm curious what that is BUT her point about looking "into the eyes of a stranger and see into their thoughts for a moment in time and then to share those moments" is pretty good criteria to set for this Challenge.
Message edited by author 2010-07-05 21:20:26. |
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07/05/2010 12:19:38 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
BUT her point about looking "into the eyes of a stranger and see into their thoughts for a moment in time and then to share those moments" is pretty good criteria to set for this Challenge. |
This is precisely the criteria I used to vote. Can I sense the essence of the person or the persona? |
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07/05/2010 12:25:14 PM · #21 |
I think much of this ties in with the earlier thread that revolved around the photographer's comfort level when approaching a stranger.
I did find this to be an interesting outing, most of the people I photographed were flattered and very chatty about themselves. |
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07/06/2010 09:29:24 AM · #22 |
I'm re-evaluating my criteria for this Challenge. And re-voting. I figure the degree of difficulty is relative to each photographer and may or may not play a role here for me as I'm happy that people just got out there in the first place. So, while approaching a little old lady for example, might be easy for me it could still be a monster event for some and should be respected. I'm going to take each image as it's own and what I can take away from it BUT not set with hard fast rules... as that's a bullshit way to approach anything. In short... what can see about the person (depth of some sort?) and the image quality or how the subject was presented will sum things up. Were they captured/processed to the strength of their personality...like, beyond the basic capture, is the image complete(?).
That seems fair enough...
You have given an average score of 6.4086 - So, far pretty upbeat though I'm not sure if that will go up or down.
Message edited by author 2010-07-06 09:34:56. |
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07/06/2010 09:50:58 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
I think much of this ties in with the earlier thread that revolved around the photographer's comfort level when approaching a stranger.
I did find this to be an interesting outing, most of the people I photographed were flattered and very chatty about themselves. |
I think this might be to do with the mixed comfort levels of the photographer and the subject -- if you yourself (as the photographer) were happy, chirpy and able to hold a conversation it might put the stranger at ease. You might get a look into their soul, as someone said, with your shot.
If you, again the photographer, lacked... charisma (maybe?) you mightn't get the best out of the subject. And they might be out of their comfort zone. As you might be too.
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07/06/2010 10:18:01 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by NiallOTuama:
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
I think much of this ties in with the earlier thread that revolved around the photographer's comfort level when approaching a stranger.
I did find this to be an interesting outing, most of the people I photographed were flattered and very chatty about themselves. |
I think this might be to do with the mixed comfort levels of the photographer and the subject -- if you yourself (as the photographer) were happy, chirpy and able to ... |
Another thing to consider...what the OP may have missed, as many here will, is the degree to which the photographer puts or interjects them self into the image... Or how much you can see/feel them (not literally) in the shot. Sometimes I don't wish to connect at all with the subject....like making someone down and out, smile for me could be viewed as silly and disingenuous, even bullshit at times. On the other hand maybe you want to show the same subject having some joy and happiness.
So, to the OP or whoever said something about the word "formal" in the description, be careful NOT to over-think it. I was just suggesting a camera connection as opposed to a candid...if only to make it clear the image was NOT a candid shot. So, someone formally posing and cheesing-it straight to the camera could be totally fake or totally brilliant...judge each image on it's own strength and if you feel it communicates something genuine about the subject...
eta: The most interesting thing about Deens post below is that you can probably learn far more about photography from paintings than you can photographs. For example, all you need to know about food photography you can learn by studying Vermeers light.
Message edited by author 2010-07-06 10:26:57. |
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07/06/2010 10:20:53 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
As for expressions, it's hard to apply a standard, straight across the board and then claim to be making a fair judgment on an image. Sometimes a dead stare says quite a bit about a person...more than a fake smile or a set-up sexy pose, more often than not... |
Agree. Cezanne painted many portraits of his wife. She had no expression in most of these portraits. Maybe she just felt boring for being Cezanne's model and Cezanne catched her boring expression.
//1844.img.pp.sohu.com.cn/images/blog/2009/7/8/4/21/12303dcd80bg214.jpg
//vr.theatre.ntu.edu.tw/fineart/painter-wt/cezanne/cezanne-09x.jpg
//www.jerichorose.com/Photo/UploadPhotos/200810/2008100200292779.jpg
//i1.ce.cn/ce/kjwh/sjmh/gw/saishang/200904/01/W020090401588424521723.jpeg
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