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11/03/2010 08:24:08 AM · #1 |
why you think the participation in the challenges has dropped off so drastically? Especially the open challenges. There have been very few entries in them recently. I remember when there were 150 in each open every week even without DPL.
Looking at the last few weeks challenges the numbers are crazy.
Mid-Day Sun 90 entries
Dreams III 83 entries
Jump II 53 entries
Halloween Song Titles 44 entries
Wildlife V 99 entries
4:00-5:00 a.m. II 43 entries
Homemade Landscapes II 31 entries.
It just seems like everything is way down. Wondering if there is reasoning why people aren't participating. I haven't been because I've been working twice as much since losing my job last month. And before was just working a lot in anticipation of losing it.
Matt |
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11/03/2010 08:35:46 AM · #2 |
Seems to me like things tapered off after DPL.
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11/03/2010 08:38:51 AM · #3 |
I couldn't agree more Matt!
I was actually about to post the same thing when I noticed how many entries the previous Shapes and Complementary colo(u)rs challenges had - in the order of 350 entries in some of them!!
I can understand the 4-5am not having a ton of shots and the homemade landscapes appealed to the art and crafts gifted people... but the others??
People are still there because the Free Studies mostly tend to have over 300 entries from what I have seen. |
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11/03/2010 08:39:32 AM · #4 |
1) Challenges are too specific recently
2) Very few updates/improvements to the site in recent years
3) Zero advertising |
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11/03/2010 08:41:57 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by Silent-Shooter:
People are still there because the Free Studies mostly tend to have over 300 entries from what I have seen. |
Even the freestudies are down some. Used to be close to 500 entries in those. It's not like there is not an inflow of fresh meat new members. I see plenty of new faces regularly. Perhaps it's not enough to compensate for others that are losing interest and wandering off or participating less?
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11/03/2010 08:43:04 AM · #6 |
I can't speak for all of the challenges since I've also been gone for a long time. But the last two (Homemade landscapes and 4:00-5:00am) wasn't exactly appealing to me and I never expected a big participation.
The 'easy' challenges (like bridges III (138 entries), macro VII (166) and negative image III (173) are still pulling a a decent number of entries. I still think it's a good idea to have a few tough ones once in a while however to keep everyone at all levels challenged - even if that means fewer entries.
Good news is that the free studies still have a fairly high level of participation. |
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11/03/2010 08:44:40 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Seems to me like things tapered off after DPL. |
Bring back the DPL with improved voting rules??
You vote on all the pics but your vote doesn't count for the team you are playing against (or even in your own group) so there is no need to vote lower than usual.
Too many people were complaining about low scores around the time of the DPL. |
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11/03/2010 09:46:13 AM · #8 |
Here is your answer.
As of today we have 1670 paid members. This is down from over 3000 a few years ago. I'm sure that the number of Registered Users participating tracks with this number. It's more work than a simple search to figure out how many Registered Users are participating, since Registered Users never fall off the "attendance sheet." It is possible to do by picking through the challenge results.
If I have time, I will see if some code I wrote for Scott Whiddon might be easily corrupted converted for the task. It would be interesting to see the number of unique users participating over time, perhaps on a quarterly basis. |
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11/03/2010 09:55:07 AM · #9 |
| It's been years since I have been on, but I signed on yesterday and it seems the site is harder to use then it used to be, they need to do alot of updating |
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11/03/2010 10:10:45 AM · #10 |
| Just speaking for myself, my husband lost his job about 2 months ago, and I haven't entered a challenge since. I've found that I take really lousy pictures when I'm stressed or sad, so I know my photos wouldn't do well right now. Of course, subject matter is important too, and the challenges that were just posted last night are the first to interest me in a while. |
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11/03/2010 10:13:37 AM · #11 |
For what it's worth, the challenge topics lately have kept me from entering. I have not been inspired at all. This week I only have a free study entry in and usually I don't miss. Shapes and colors should go over pretty well though.
Message edited by author 2010-11-03 14:48:51. |
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11/03/2010 10:16:51 AM · #12 |
Can you say 'single-minded intolerance'? Members either get DPC-ized or they leave. Look at any of the challenges and the remarkable fact is that all the entries are so the same; It's actually boring. DPC is so hung up on the pixels they can't see the image.
There is also a general problem with basic photographic knowledge. For example, if I had a dime for every time I heard "doesn't comply with the rule-of-thirds", I'd be rich. Someone should let these people know there are other rules. Specifically, I found the famous photographs entries to be extremely telling. Please, how many Afghan women National Geographic covers do we need -- goes back to sameness (I was pleasantly surprised at the winner though). Does anyone know Avadon or Arbus? They would get crucified on this site.
Then there's the matter of shoehorning an entry with a title that contains the name of the challenge. If it's not evidenced by the image a title won't help. Ditch the titles.
The cry of images being over-processed from professed idolizers of THE greatest processor of all time, A. Adams who developed a system (and intolerance) all his own.
As long as anything new or different is met with scorn and ridicule, DPC will continue on getting more and more the same minded telling itself they are the best while stagnating in a pool of cookie cutter images from cookie cutter minds. New people coming in will either conform or they will leave.
These comments are not directed at any specific person but at the site as a whole.
You asked.
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11/03/2010 10:29:34 AM · #13 |
I haven't been entering lately because my heart is not in it. I don't blame the challenge themes, however.
I don't believe the site is any harder to use than before. Many of the other complaints mentioned have always been true of DPC.
My unsubstantiated belief is that many photographers want to be associated with the best. If one or two good photographers jump ship and go to 1x or some other photo competition site, a few more will follow, then more, and suddenly a "tipping point" is reached. People move on to the next big thing.
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11/03/2010 10:35:57 AM · #14 |
I'm so far behind in real life, I've forgotten where I'm going. ..
That seriously puts a dent in my challenge shooting time. :( When I enter, it is when I have something that fits. No time to "set up" or "seek out." |
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11/03/2010 10:44:01 AM · #15 |
| For me Challenges haven't been all that inspiring...or very difficult for me to "do/construct"...I know that is part of the Challenge but I really don't like entering something that I know is going to be mediocre. I guess I don't enter just to enter.... |
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11/03/2010 10:52:13 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by dsray:
Can you say 'single-minded intolerance'? ...As long as anything new or different is met with scorn and ridicule, DPC will continue on getting more and more the same minded telling itself they are the best while stagnating in a pool of cookie cutter images from cookie cutter minds. New people coming in will either conform or they will leave. |
Wow, what a diatribe! And so, you are still here why? ;-)
FWIW, I think you've missed a very important fact. DPC is made up primarily of newer photographers "finding their footing." So there is a fair bit of "emulation" as folks try to duplicate a winning formula, or just try to see how they can do with the "technique du jour." The key here is that it's not forced conformance at all, but willful emulation. This is how people learn, they learn by doing.
This also explains why very talented individuals often move on or just stop entering after a couple years; they have outgrown the emulation phase and are confident to shoot for themselves and not to please others. |
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11/03/2010 10:57:22 AM · #17 |
For me it’s the challenges. They are just not doing it anymore. I find that most of the challenges are not feasible where I’m in the world. I live in London, ON and beautiful landscape scenery does not exist. It’s now close to winter so even less appealing. I’m confided to homemade studio in the basement. So challenges like Dreams III, Mid-Day Sun, Bridges III, Memorials and Monuments, Country Life III are really not something that I can even enter to be compete in. Look at the top 10 images for recent Free Study, if wish I had the scenery in London. I guess what I’m trying to point out when creating challenges see if we can make them possible for all people. Just my thoughts.
Keep in mind everyone that we are just exiting the wedding season, that was another factor for me. Being booked weekend after weekend didn’t allow me to participate as much. I’m hoping users will have time over the winter season. I know I will try, hell I just renewed my membership :)
Message edited by author 2010-11-03 10:57:33. |
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11/03/2010 12:16:31 PM · #18 |
Yeah, I'm a glass-half-full kinda gal. Participation is cyclical. While I can't argue with the decrease of paid member numbers, everything else is just the our natural instinct to seek patterns. Right now, the cycle is low. Some reasons for this low cycle have already been mentioned (wedding season, work, lack of inspiration, etc.). But in September, Negative Image had 173 entries, Underexposed had 108, Skyscape 136, Triangle II had 128, etc., etc. I've been here a bit over 2 years and have never seen the average # of entries above 120. Some a lot more, some a lot less, but about 100-120 average.
I do agree that DPC is a training ground, and a fabulous one at that. The favored method of learning is by imitating, so that does indeed result in a mind-numbing quantity of water drops, blurred waterfalls, and wine glasses. And because the creators of those images know how hard they are to do well, my guess is that they tend to vote them more generously than an image that is not "recognizable" as anything other than not the norm. Thus, it appears that creativity is not rewarded (much to my own chagrin...). OTO, many, many, many ribbon winners are image that are hugely creative and NOT of the norm - just exceptionally well done. But as with everything, this site is what you make of it. There is a fabulous little counter-culture clutch of photogs who very actively reward oob thinking and photography ( chromeydome, posthumous, vlado, to name a few).
and now a rant.
@ pwarmuz, I'm really sorry, but it just sounds like you're a bit lazy... And worse, not using your imagination. Who says landscapes have to be green and mountainy? Why NOT a dreary winter one? Why NOT in b/w? You're only 23 miles from Lake Erie and 35 miles from Lake Huron - you're surrounded by magnificent nature. If you lived in the countryside, would you whine about not being able to take pictures of buildings??? If you read any of the set-up notes under the entries, you'll notice the lengths to which some people will go to capture an image JUST FOR THE CHALLENGE!!! Most notably that insane person gyaban, who even constructs his own set ups. Photographers who hike 10,000 ft mountains to capture an image. You may not be inspired by the challenge topics, but PLEASE don't say you can't find anything like Memorials and Monuments, Bridges, DREAMS (????!!!! You don't have dreams???!!!)?
[/rant]
Now back to our regularly scheduled dissing of DPC. |
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11/03/2010 12:59:14 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
...@ pwarmuz, I'm really sorry, but it just sounds like you're a bit lazy... ... |
London, Ontario, has a way of sucking the life out of people. As soon as you drive into the city limits, everything turns to shades of gray, even your skin. There is no black or white, the contrast just doesn't exist in London. The air smells of mouldy bread and sweaty armpits. London, Ontario is in perpetual darkness; due to an anomaly of landforms, latitude, and weather; the sun neither rises nor sets on London. London is inhabited only by zombies, skunks, and pwarmuz. There is only despair in London. |
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11/03/2010 01:02:51 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by karmat:
I'm so far behind in real life, I've forgotten where I'm going. ..
That seriously puts a dent in my challenge shooting time. :( When I enter, it is when I have something that fits. No time to "set up" or "seek out." |
I am in the same boat and I think that could have something to do with why participation is low. I haven't entered a challenge in ages. I look and see stuff that I want to do, but I forget because life gets in the way and I miss the deadline. I see this kind of thread a lot. I still love DPC and the people here. I wish I had more hours in the day....
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11/03/2010 01:50:00 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by JokersSoul:
Originally posted by karmat:
I'm so far behind in real life, I've forgotten where I'm going. ..
That seriously puts a dent in my challenge shooting time. :( When I enter, it is when I have something that fits. No time to "set up" or "seek out." |
I am in the same boat and I think that could have something to do with why participation is low. I haven't entered a challenge in ages. I look and see stuff that I want to do, but I forget because life gets in the way and I miss the deadline. I see this kind of thread a lot. I still love DPC and the people here. I wish I had more hours in the day.... |
Im kind of in this boat too. Life is crazy, The weather sucks, My Fibro is flaring, Im shooting for $ more, and I miss deadlines here. But Im also in the same boat as some others... Im finding the challenges hard to adhere too unless I either spend money on props (money I dont have) or go out of my way to some location to find something (time I dont have) Its just been strange.... that and well I got burnt out on the 4.4 to 4.75 scores.
Im trying to get into the swing of things again. I miss DPC and the fun... its just been "off" lately.
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11/03/2010 02:06:02 PM · #22 |
| I haven't been entering lately because every time I pull out my long lens in public, I'm instantly swarmed by chicks. |
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11/03/2010 02:20:57 PM · #23 |
We had this conversation a little while back.
I believe there are several reasons.
1.Initially for the old time users, there have been no significant updates for a very long time. People get bored. The only reason they stick around is because of the friends they have made or its just habit.
2.For new users, the forums can seem incredibly cliquey, and thats is very off putting. Some people force their idenity onto the forums (JustCaree for example when she joined knocked out around 1500 posts in a 4 week period, but also made the effort of voting and commenting on a lot of challenges, she then became a `known` name - not a bad thing, but it shows how much one has to commit to be accepted into the tribe). Some may argue, but thats pretty much how it is.
3. Also whilst WE all know that it not the be all and end all to get a low score, a lot of people probably turn up here, having bought their expensive DSLR, having been told they `take a lovely picture` by friends, family etc. then place in the bottom 20% of the challenge with some pretty harsh comments. My guess is this happens a LOT. They never come back, I daresay if we could run a search on users to see how many joined, entered a single challenge then never returned it would be a pretty high headcount.
I put forward some ideas on how to take the site forward in the same post - I will copy the bulk of it below - but as usual there is never any feedback from the site owners. It seems they really dont care anymore. I would love to be proved wrong
OK, old post follows from THIS THREAD
I (unsurprisingly) disagree. What I have observed is that people are obviously drawn to the site because of its content & features - that is, weekly photographic competitions. However to an outside observer the community actually looks very cliquey and closed. Lots of `in jokes` and site favourites etc. This kind of thing takes time for some to learn - I mean, references to JoeyL could quite easily fall on deaf ears - as much as he is achieving great things in the photographic world - not many people actually outside of this community know of him - not to the casual hobbyist. Now some new users can managed to get recognised in a new community quite quickly - generally by replying to every single posting on the forums regardless if it it to make a point or just say "Yeah" or "I agree" or "LOL" or whatever. Once they have `broken` into that community they are more than likely going to come back because of the community and the features/content will play second fiddle.
I am going to be honest here so it will probably sound very arrogant (ahem) - anyway, I daresay a lot of people also join up because they have bought a digital camera and have been told by friends/family that their photos are amazing, so they search Google for Digital Photography competitions and find this site (I daresay if we looked at the Google analytics for this site that would be a pretty popular search term) - they join up, enter a challenge and end up in the bottom 10% of the results - pride well and truly hurt, they don't come back. Maybe they see the community, in-jokes and all and think to do well you have to be popular. Maybe I am wrong, but intuition tells me that I may be partially right.
This is not saying the people here are unapproachable and wary of outsiders, we generally are not, however we are closeknit and to the casual observer that can be quite off putting.
However from other forums I have joined, observed and left, there is actually a lot less bickering on here than any of them - sure we all have disagreements from time to time, some more than others (ahem) but overall its actually a nice place to be. Why do you think I have stuck around for the past 9 years and 3 days?
If I was going to change something about the site, I would like to see Langdon (is Drew still part of the site) be a bit more active - I am not saying join in with the conversations, but maybe a Blog or something along those lines so we can see what ideas he is working on? His repsonses to certain requests etc.
I dont think DPC needs to be advertised exactly - I daresay it gets enough new traffic from google and other search engines - I just think it needs to be more accessible to new visitors and find ways of retaining them.
Suggestions? I dont know - how about challenges open only to new members, people who signed up 6 months ago or less, to give them a chance to cut their teeth and not feel so intimidated going up against some of the big guns on the site? I think I would certainly be more inclined to vote on challenges like that and commment a lot more - it would ease people into the community, it wouldn't be so hard for them to achieve results. They could still enter all the other challenges, but I think restricted challenges would certainly be a step in the right direction - you may even find new community of new users forming as a result. Maybe make these challenges more technique orientated (rule of thirds, natural light etc) you could also rotate them every 6 months so you wouldn`t have to rack your brains thinking up new challenges. New users could be made aware of these special challenges at the point of registration?
OK, so theres is one idea - its a bit `out there` but certainly a step in the right direction. Now, if we had a blog we could see what Langdon thought of that idea..
Discuss.
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11/03/2010 02:23:57 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by pwarmuz:
For me it’s the challenges. They are just not doing it anymore. I find that most of the challenges are not feasible where I’m in the world. I live in London, ON and beautiful landscape scenery does not exist. It’s now close to winter so even less appealing. I’m confided to homemade studio in the basement. So challenges like Dreams III, Mid-Day Sun, Bridges III, Memorials and Monuments, Country Life III are really not something that I can even enter to be compete in. Look at the top 10 images for recent Free Study, if wish I had the scenery in London. I guess what I’m trying to point out when creating challenges see if we can make them possible for all people. Just my thoughts.
Keep in mind everyone that we are just exiting the wedding season, that was another factor for me. Being booked weekend after weekend didn’t allow me to participate as much. I’m hoping users will have time over the winter season. I know I will try, hell I just renewed my membership :) |
I agree with  tanguera that your entry is as much effort as you want to put into things. I'm one of those "climb a 10,000 ft(plus!) mountan" group, and I've also gone exploring just for photos. It's part of why I like DPC... if I could shoot everything in my house or my backyard, what's the point? Am I growing? I lean very heavily towards nature and landscape, but his triptych challenge has me excited because it pushes me out of my bounds. You don't need to go crazy for everything, but think of it as a push out the door to explore. And Free Studies will never, and should never, be easy. The very fact of placng high in FS means you have done excellently. citymars and kirbic hit it on the head though. This site is a jumping point. I want to stick around because I love to help those who were in the same position that I was when I found DPC. Full of questions and eager to learn. Most of the threads these days that involve questions I can answer, it's a matter of getting there first. If I can help people grasp the inspiration and understanding of vision that I gained through here, my residence will have been successful. This site consists of a lot more than just the challenges. The community, the SC's, the comraderie, it's all a part. And basing the health of things on just challenge entries is foolish.
Message edited by author 2010-11-03 14:34:10. |
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11/03/2010 02:32:03 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Simms:
We had this conversation a little while back.
2.For new users, the forums can seem incredibly cliquey, and thats is very off putting. Some people force their idenity onto the forums (JustCaree for example when she joined knocked out around 1500 posts in a 4 week period, but also made the effort of voting and commenting on a lot of challenges, she then became a `known` name - not a bad thing, but it shows how much one has to commit to be accepted into the tribe). Some may argue, but thats pretty much how it is.
3. Also whilst WE all know that it not the be all and end all to get a low score, a lot of people probably turn up here, having bought their expensive DSLR, having been told they `take a lovely picture` by friends, family etc. then place in the bottom 20% of the challenge with some pretty harsh comments. My guess is this happens a LOT. They never come back, I daresay if we could run a search on users to see how many joined, entered a single challenge then never returned it would be a pretty high headcount.
[/b] |
Well said, Simms. It is somewhat cliqueish, but it always cracks me up when people on DPC say the forums aren't friendly or the forums aren't accessible. Compared to the other forums I regular (one based on mountaineering, for example), DPC will not say you are a "#$@%^%$ moron for using this approach" nor will things typically degrade into a "WTF were you thinking?" diatribe. Members here are very respectful and undersanding. If you don't believe me, join an unmoderated message board. Forums can be daunting, and it's unfortunate, because I think the forums are host to the majority of the learning here. |
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