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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Bin Laden - Photography Ethics Debate
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05/05/2011 11:42:32 AM · #1
I thought this was an interesting article, discussing the role of photography in various aspects of bin Laden's killing...
05/05/2011 11:47:34 AM · #2
I read as much as I could...so there is a "beef" about stills being tagged as "actual time" and not "recreations"/

Originally posted by alanfreed:

I thought this was an interesting article, discussing the role of photography in various aspects of bin Laden's killing...
05/05/2011 11:52:57 AM · #3
Originally posted by alanfreed:

I thought this was an interesting article, discussing the role of photography in various aspects of bin Laden's killing...


I agree with Obama, we don't need to see the photos. How anyone can even think he is still alive is either naive or just trying to incite an argument. He dead, there is no need to drag his photo all over he world, its not like the lowlife terrorist scum need any extra motivation to do what the plan to do, so why bother rubbing it in their face. Bravo for taking the high road.

Think about this, if OBL ever shows his face from this point forward, the US government will have more egg on its face than it will ever be able to remove. Plus there is no political motivation for even making this announcement now if it wasn't 100% true. If he wasn't dead, three was no reason for the US to say he was.

The US stands to lose way too much if this turns out not to be true.
05/05/2011 12:07:07 PM · #4
Talking about posing Obama for press pictures of the speech...

I think these guys are splitting fine hairs. NPPA Ethics Committee chair John Long says "A faked photograph is a visual lie; it deceives the reader. Captioning these photos accurately is essential – but in the final analysis these photos look as though the President is speaking and in reality, he is not, making the images themselves visual lies.”

Actually, fella, he was speaking during those pictures. He was also delivering a speech about capturing Osama. Where's the lie? What is being misrepresented? Was he wearing a clown suit for one and not the other? No, the visual representation of the event was properly captured.

"The [ethics] code also addresses the photojournalist's role in avoiding presenting photographs that could mislead viewers or misrepresent subjects."

You said it yourself.
05/05/2011 12:09:22 PM · #5
Originally posted by kenskid:

I read as much as I could...so there is a "beef" about stills being tagged as "actual time" and not "recreations"/

Originally posted by alanfreed:

I thought this was an interesting article, discussing the role of photography in various aspects of bin Laden's killing...


Apparently this has been going on for a long time; they don't let the press shoot during the speeches, because it's too distracting, so they bring them in for a photo op after the speech is finished and the prez does the first 30 seconds over for them. So the images are "staged", not "real", and there's considerable philosophical discussion of whether or not this is acceptable.

However, since the White House controls access to these events, the alternative would presumably be no pictures at all, save the ones shot by WH Staff Photographers. And since the press has no way to verify the non-staged aspect of THOSE, it's rather a moot point.

R.
05/05/2011 12:12:16 PM · #6
Bravo for making the right decision!!

What a stupid thing to request photos. If they were shown, people would claim the photos had been faked. You gain nothing by it. You lose face by releasing them.

When no other foreign entity is refuting the death, why placate the idiots who wouldn't be placated anyway?

Again, bravo!!
05/05/2011 01:17:27 PM · #7
I don't think there would be anything wrong with releasing the photos of a dead bin Laden. Seeing OBL dead might serve as a deterrent for the dumbasses who think "jihadi/terrorist" is a good career choice.

As a precedent, the photos of Saddam's sons were released after they were killed. Sure, some people were upset, but no one was running around saying that they were still out there.
05/05/2011 01:24:54 PM · #8
Originally posted by Spork99:

I don't think there would be anything wrong with releasing the photos of a dead bin Laden. Seeing OBL dead might serve as a deterrent for the dumbasses who think "jihadi/terrorist" is a good career choice.

As a precedent, the photos of Saddam's sons were released after they were killed. Sure, some people were upset, but no one was running around saying that they were still out there.


Yet we were incensed when radicals showed photos of dead Americans.
05/05/2011 01:33:39 PM · #9
Originally posted by Spork99:

I don't think there would be anything wrong with releasing the photos of a dead bin Laden. Seeing OBL dead might serve as a deterrent for the dumbasses who think "jihadi/terrorist" is a good career choice.

As a precedent, the photos of Saddam's sons were released after they were killed. Sure, some people were upset, but no one was running around saying that they were still out there.


If the thought of the US military coming after your ass isn't a deterrent, surely some pictures wont do the job.
05/05/2011 01:38:31 PM · #10
I don't think we need to see the photos, but I have my doubts they will be able to be kept secret -- I thought some had already been posted and then taken down.
05/05/2011 01:44:01 PM · #11
I don't think we need to release the photos. It was a good "high road" decision. There's no conspiracy here--let any congressman visit the photos in a secure place if their constituents have doubts. Though I'm sure no one will ever convince those wearing the tin foil hats. They still don't believe we landed on the moon.

In terms of consistency, I think it was a bad decision before to release the photos of Hussein's sons. It was contrary to everything the government said during the Iraq war regarding about showing pictures of the American dead. We are not running the National Inquirer here.

05/05/2011 01:46:25 PM · #12
Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by Spork99:

I don't think there would be anything wrong with releasing the photos of a dead bin Laden. Seeing OBL dead might serve as a deterrent for the dumbasses who think "jihadi/terrorist" is a good career choice.

As a precedent, the photos of Saddam's sons were released after they were killed. Sure, some people were upset, but no one was running around saying that they were still out there.


Yet we were incensed when radicals showed photos of dead Americans.


To which dead Americans are you referring? The innocent civilians killed by terrorists on 9/11? There's no comparison in this case. OBL is was not an innocent civilian, he and the rest of al qaeda openly declared war.

Or maybe you're referring to the dead soldiers mutilated and dragged through the streets of Mogadishu? The American contractors whose bodies were burned before being hung up from a bridge?

It wasn't the fact that American soldiers were killed, it was how their bodies were treated afterward and the evident joy the animals who perpetrated such unspeakable acts took in them.
05/05/2011 01:48:59 PM · #13
I can't think of a good reason to show the pictures. Those not convinced he's dead aren't going to be convinced by a photograph. And no good can come of it other than more gloating and rejoicing that someone is dead -- and people are doing just fine at doing that without the photos.
05/05/2011 02:00:09 PM · #14
Apparently AP and Reuters have double standards. It's okay to stage photos of the president, but not other events they are biased against.

Reuters and AP sitting out SC debate

Dave
05/05/2011 02:32:09 PM · #15
Originally posted by karmat:

and people are doing just fine at doing that without the photos.

Agree and it's just as disgusting on either side... but both sides continue to gloat on this and other topics and that's part of the reason it will never be solved.
05/05/2011 05:04:35 PM · #16
I find it amusing that the very people who last week were insisting that Obama's long form birth certificate was a photoshop fabrication, are insisting that only a digital photograph of Bin Ladden's blown apart head will prove to them that he is really dead.

For the same reasons that it was a good idea that Bin Ladden's body was disposed of at sea, it is a good idea that the photograph not be released. The less iconography of this martyr to the cause of Islamic terrorism that exists, the better it is for their intended victims.
05/05/2011 09:12:11 PM · #17
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

I find it amusing that the very people who last week were insisting that Obama's long form birth certificate was a photoshop fabrication, are insisting that only a digital photograph of Bin Ladden's blown apart head will prove to them that he is really dead.


You beat me to it...
This sounds amazingly familiar to the birther argument.
There will be no placation of people who always believe there is a conspiracy against them. It's like the lunar landing. Those who don't accept it as real never will. There is no way to prove it to them.
05/05/2011 09:55:08 PM · #18
Forget the loony fringe. Nothing is going to convince them either way. The bigger issue is this adminstration and each one before it feel that we need to be sheltered from such images. I would expect this from Bush not Obama, who ran on government transparency among other failed promises. I guess that's what he meant my transparent.

Message edited by author 2011-05-05 21:59:38.
05/05/2011 09:58:40 PM · #19
Originally posted by yanko:

Forget the loony fringe. Nothing is going to convince them either way. The bigger issue is this adminstration and everyone before it feel that we need to be sheltered from such images. I would expect this with Bush not Obama, who promised transparency among other failed promises.


Indeed, totally on board with you and censoring such images. I think people should see and know the bloodshed of war. It's too removed from reality these days.
Regarding Obama's transparency....
Daily show bit.

Message edited by author 2011-05-05 21:58:51.
05/05/2011 10:11:57 PM · #20
Originally posted by yanko:

Forget the loony fringe. Nothing is going to convince them either way. The bigger issue is this adminstration and each one before it feel that we need to be sheltered from such images. I would expect this from Bush not Obama, who ran on government transparency among other failed promises. I guess that's what he meant my transparent.


I think that if you look at all the reasons not to release the photos you will see that this is not on it. It is more of an issue of making things worse instead of better in the long run.
05/05/2011 11:26:10 PM · #21
Hope those demanding the photographs remember that by making those pictures public, you run the risk of young people seeing those images as well, not just the adults. There are certain things that kids don't need to be exposed to, true or not.

The atrocities of what went on in the concentration camps during WWII were horrific and very disturbing, but I don't need/want to see photos to provide evidence that it actually took place. I say this as my grandfather fought in Germany during WWII and had an album of photographs from the concentration camps that my aunt remembers viewing as a child and it still bothers her...even though it's history. She was in grade school at the time.

At some point people have got to stop insisting that someone else is CONSTANTLY trying to deceive them. I feel sorry that their lives are so bad that everything has to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt and even then, they probably won't be satisfied.
05/06/2011 12:22:20 AM · #22
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

It's like the lunar landing. Those who don't accept it as real never will. There is no way to prove it to them.

We could send them to the moon ...
05/06/2011 12:25:06 AM · #23
Originally posted by bergiekat:


At some point people have got to stop insisting that someone else is CONSTANTLY trying to deceive them. I feel sorry that their lives are so bad that everything has to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt and even then, they probably won't be satisfied.


Best line ever... can I steal this to use?
05/06/2011 12:50:24 AM · #24
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

It's like the lunar landing. Those who don't accept it as real never will. There is no way to prove it to them.

We could send them to the moon ...


"It was a drug induced hallucination, an elaborate attempt to silence those who REALLY know the truth!"
05/06/2011 01:27:44 AM · #25
Interesting comment over at Chase Jarvis's Blog

"If you’ve ever questioned the power of an image, consider the current news cycle. The US government has decided it won’t show images of the dead Bin Laden.

If you’re wondering why, the answer is simple. A photograph–an image–is an incredibly powerful thing. It can be a tool, intentionally or incidentally. It can tell an entire story of a month, year, decade, or a generation, captured in perhaps just 1/1000 of a second. An image change a life, end a war, start a riot, bring someone joy, inspire a revolution, open or close a debate. An image can move the world.

My point has nothing to do with the governments treatment, or lack thereof, of the Bin Laden image…should or shouldn’t, left or right in America, good versus evil, or any other debate along political lines. That is not my point, and this is not the forum here for those discussions. Don’t go there. Instead it has everything to do with the proof of the power of an image. Therein lies the only reason that this debate rages on. If it weren’t powerful, there would be nothing to say.

My point is a simple one and specifically this: if you’ve ever doubted if, in this modern era with technology moving a light speed, whether there is still respect and value for the 130 year old concept of a photo, think again. If you’ve ever wondered if the power of a photograph is waning, think again. The power of a photograph is at an all time high. Sometimes we… need these reminders.

Consider this as you go to work with your camera."
-Chase Jarvis
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