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 02/20/2012 03:09:31 PM · #1
So.. How do I get images on my monitor to look like images on your monitor?

I've entered a couple of images that had an appearance or some detail in a darker area that look good on the monitor I use to edit on. It is a Lenovo laptop and has a Huey monitor calibrator built in that I use. I edit and get saturation and brightness of an image to where I think it looks good and post it but then I see some comments that indicate the color rendition and dark details are not the same. If I use my iPad to view images they are also darker and have a different cast to the color.
I can see where if you print that you can see the end result as everyone else would see it but how do you all compensate or edit for display othe web?

How does one get a repeatable consistent appearance for web publishing?

Thanks so much for any insight!
02/20/2012 03:15:03 PM · #2
Don't really think you can. If you already calibrate, then you've done as much as you can in terms of your own monitor.

What I used to do is submit early, then view it in work to see how it looked there. I figured my work monitor was probably closer to those out there who didn't calibrate theirs.
 02/20/2012 03:25:08 PM · #3
I've always asked myself the same question. I have tons of devices but none of which seem to be 'neutral'. Two laptops, iPhone, 55inch LED TV and a 40 inch LCD TV. Color warmth, sharpness, brightness and contrast are all different.

Also, where you get your pictures printed will make a difference, printing it at home will yield different results depending on your hardware, etc.. etc..

So unless you have my monitor(s), I don't know if you can.
 02/20/2012 03:34:51 PM · #4
Just noticed the differences... looked at photos on my computer vs. my phone vs.my iPod... all look different. The phone looks The best. Go figure. The iPod makes it especially dull, IMO.
02/20/2012 03:52:14 PM · #5
You can't... no matter how long you spend calibrating your expensive monitors and then spend tweaking your images, there will always be someone attempting to view them on a toaster and then complaining about the contrast.

I think a key point I've learnt from this site though, is avoid fine shadow detail - most people will miss it entirely.

The first step for reproducible image processing though is investing in a monitor with a large gamut and a decent calibrator, then you at least will know that the reason others don't see your images approximately 'as they should be/really are' is more due to them not having correct equipment/calibration than any fault of yours.
 02/20/2012 04:28:51 PM · #6
My approach to this is to not rely on how it looks to my eyes. I PP by using the histogram & auto-adjust & other tools.
 02/20/2012 04:35:20 PM · #7
Originally posted by HawkinsT:
You can't... no matter how long you spend calibrating your expensive monitors and then spend tweaking your images, there will always be someone attempting to view them on a toaster and then complaining about the contrast.


[LIKE]
 02/20/2012 04:47:38 PM · #8
I'm in agreement that you can never control how others see it. You can, however, avoid pushing the envelope. Make sure shadow detail that you want visible is not so dark that it may disappear on some monitors. Make sure that your saturation is not pushing the limits, especially if you have a well-calibrated, high-end monitor. Many inexpensive monitors will make such images look garishly over-saturated.
Finally, make absolutely sure that the output image is converted to (not just tagged as being in) the sRGB space, that it is also tagged as being in that space. This will ensure that it it rendered as intended in both color-managed, and non-color-managed browsers.
 02/20/2012 05:27:36 PM · #9
Originally posted by kirbic:
Finally, make absolutely sure that the output image is converted to (not just tagged as being in) the sRGB space, that it is also tagged as being in that space. This will ensure that it it rendered as intended in both color-managed, and non-color-managed browsers.


For ANY web viewed photos, this is probably THE most important step a user can take. Also, make sure your 'preview' mode is set for sRGB in PS if that is the editor you're using. {View-->Proof Setup-->Internet Standard RGB; then check View-->Proof Colors}
 02/20/2012 06:45:24 PM · #10
These days I check my images on the Ipad. It seems to have the most neutral colors and sharp detail.
 02/20/2012 07:02:53 PM · #11
Originally posted by ti_evom:
Originally posted by kirbic:
Finally, make absolutely sure that the output image is converted to (not just tagged as being in) the sRGB space, that it is also tagged as being in that space. This will ensure that it it rendered as intended in both color-managed, and non-color-managed browsers.


For ANY web viewed photos, this is probably THE most important step a user can take. Also, make sure your 'preview' mode is set for sRGB in PS if that is the editor you're using. {View-->Proof Setup-->Internet Standard RGB; then check View-->Proof Colors}


I thought save-for-web does the conversion. Am I wrong?
 02/20/2012 09:53:05 PM · #12
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Originally posted by ti_evom:
Originally posted by kirbic:
Finally, make absolutely sure that the output image is converted to (not just tagged as being in) the sRGB space, that it is also tagged as being in that space. This will ensure that it it rendered as intended in both color-managed, and non-color-managed browsers.


For ANY web viewed photos, this is probably THE most important step a user can take. Also, make sure your 'preview' mode is set for sRGB in PS if that is the editor you're using. {View-->Proof Setup-->Internet Standard RGB; then check View-->Proof Colors}


I thought save-for-web does the conversion. Am I wrong?


There is a difference between converting a photo to sRGB if it's in another color space such as Adobe RGB, and tagging it. The tag is what tells the browser what color space to render it in. Save for Web in Photoshop will convert the file to sRGB if you check the box, but it's not necessarily tagging it.

So in Photoshop if you are working on a file that is currently in the Adobe RGB color space you would first do an edit convert to profile and select sRGB, THEN you want to go back to the edit menu and select Assign a profile which actually tags the image.

Dave
 02/20/2012 10:05:25 PM · #13
As editing tools go I feel like photoshop is the big engine lathe in the shop and I'm working on it while wearing a neck tie, a scarf and baggy long sleeves
 02/20/2012 10:20:55 PM · #14
This is how I'm doing. I don't know if it works for other. I send an image for print and using the photo to compare/adjust with the monitors image. Probably not accurate but very close. Test Image
 02/21/2012 06:46:06 AM · #15
During voting, images display with a long series of squares gradated from white to black down below the comment box. If you can see distinct differences between every square from one end to the other, then you probably have a pretty good display and pretty good brightness/contrast calibration. It can be a tool for comparing monitors too, although it doesn't address color calibration. Trouble is, those who don't calibrate their monitors and aren't educated about how much difference that makes my not even recognize why the gradient is there.
 02/21/2012 06:52:59 AM · #16
I always aim to produce the best image I can on my calibrated monitor and if the voters don't get it.... who cares? looks great on mine and in print.
 02/21/2012 08:06:16 AM · #17
The ambient light in the place and time you process your images can have a dramatic effect on the presentation of your image to others.

The two extremes:
1. Complete darkness with only the computer monitor for light. Tendency to underexpose the image. Will print too dark, too. (p.s., you'll wreck your vision)
2. In bright sunlight. Tendency to overexpose. A viewer in bright sunlight will turn up the brightness of their laptop and blow out highlights on an otherwise well exposed image. Subtle contrast is lost. (I can always tell when an outside laptop user adds a comment on my images. They know not what they do.)

Just don't process your images in these situations. You won't like the results. No one else will, either.

Ambient color cast. If you are in a room with colorfully painted walls and/or unnatural lighting (fluorescent lights or strong incandescents), your perception of "white" will vary. The eye and brain are very adaptable and will auto-adjust to make things look "normal". But, the computer will retain the unnatural color temp. and tint.

My "prison cell" has 12% gray walls and enough natural lighting during the day. I try to process during mid-morning using only natural occurring indirect daylight. I try to keep the brightness control on my monitor at "middle".

As far as viewers with badly calibrated monitors and/or users who insist on viewing their computers in extreme situations, forgive them and present for the center 80% of the normal distribution curve.

02/21/2012 08:59:37 AM · #18
Lenovo with integrated calibration and perhaps matte screen? I think I know the model you are talking about, kickass machine :)
I think with all feedback you received you have probalby all the essential info.

I would add that it's a goo idea to temporarily boost over brighten shadow areas and makes sure there is no noise or unwanted detail, some uncalibrated/bad displays will make that problem much more evident that on a good display.
Switching calibration on and off can get you a feel of what some viewers will end up seeing, if your display is sufficiently off when uncalibrated.

Some kind of images will display ok on most monitors and there are approaches to come up with that, most stock desktop backgrounds (Xp green hills) beign a good example. Get into a big shop and all monitors will have the same image, which will show ok even on bad ones.
In general, sticking to a palette of colours with the same general hue, if you like, will make more likely your image will withstand being displayed on bad displays. Also, all displays are designed to perform better on colour ranges which the human eye is particularly good at, notably the greens.
I am incompetent at that, but I think it's an art. Like a sound engineer studio with a $100,000 will tweak a track so it sounds ok on a $20 radio or cheap earset, really good web artists will choose a tradeoff so that their stuff shows ok on any display.

Most digital hotographers print very little, I think. Still, calibration makes lots of sense in that it gives you coherence over time. Your calibrated monitor today will show the image more or less like your calibrated display in 5 years. All your careful efforts and time invested at getting exactly what you want are preserved over the years,not tied to a certain display and setup. That's the best thing about calibration, in my opinion.
 02/21/2012 09:14:24 AM · #19
Originally posted by hahn23:
1. Complete darkness with only the computer monitor for light. Tendency to underexpose the image. Will print too dark, too. (p.s., you'll wreck your vision)


Sorry, just have to refute this. If you ask an optician they will tell you there is no proven link.
 02/21/2012 09:17:03 AM · #20
Originally posted by HawkinsT:
Originally posted by hahn23:
1. Complete darkness with only the computer monitor for light. Tendency to underexpose the image. Will print too dark, too. (p.s., you'll wreck your vision)


Sorry, just have to refute this. If you ask an optician they will tell you there is no proven link.


Probably no permanent damage, it's quite tiring though, which is not a good think when postprocessing for many hours.
 02/21/2012 09:22:54 AM · #21
Originally posted by bob350:
During voting, images display with a long series of squares gradated from white to black down below the comment box. If you can see distinct differences between every square from one end to the other, then you probably have a pretty good display and pretty good brightness/contrast calibration. It can be a tool for comparing monitors too, although it doesn't address color calibration. Trouble is, those who don't calibrate their monitors and aren't educated about how much difference that makes my not even recognize why the gradient is there.


Since we cannot control how other monitors are set I wonder.....

Instead of that calibration bar at the bottom - could it be programed to appear at the top of the voting screen (not a pop-up box)

I.E.

Rate Submissions for the Current Challenge:

(Calibration Bar will be here)
To maximize viewing potential, your monitor should be able to see all squares on both sides of the spectrum
[..] I have checked my monitor for calibration
To begin voting, please click box to view thumbnails full size
.
.
.
.

NOTE: The box would be like what you have to check when you check off your submission stating it was taken during so and so dates. You will have to check the box if you want to go vote.

It would ONLY be a one time deal SPECIFICALLY for that challenge alone. So if you do 1/2 your voting on one day for the Love & Hate Challenge and the other half the next day, that check box will only greet you the first time out. But if you then go vote in Yet Another Box challenge, the check box will be there to greet you that first time.

02/21/2012 09:29:08 AM · #22
Originally posted by HawkinsT:
Originally posted by hahn23:
1. Complete darkness with only the computer monitor for light. Tendency to underexpose the image. Will print too dark, too. (p.s., you'll wreck your vision)


Sorry, just have to refute this. If you ask an optician they will tell you there is no proven link.

Okay, you are free to disagree. (How old are you?) I accept your opinion. Check back with me in 36 years and we'll compare notes. (ha!)

Haven't detected your mortality yet, eh? You don't appreciate what you have, until you lose it.

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. . . I want to achieve it through not dying."
Woody Allen
02/21/2012 09:37:28 AM · #23
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by HawkinsT:
Originally posted by hahn23:
1. Complete darkness with only the computer monitor for light. Tendency to underexpose the image. Will print too dark, too. (p.s., you'll wreck your vision)


Sorry, just have to refute this. If you ask an optician they will tell you there is no proven link.

Okay, you are free to disagree. (How old are you?) I accept your opinion. Check back with me in 36 years and we'll compare notes. (ha!)

Haven't detected your mortality yet, eh? You don't appreciate what you have, until you lose it.

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. . . I want to achieve it through not dying."
Woody Allen


It is true that most optometrists will tell you that there is no link between the two, at least the ones that I have seen all say the same.

However, that doesn't mean that there isn't a link between the two.

I know one thing you will definitely get from such circumstances... A MASSIVE HEADACHE. Especially if you're prone to migraines such as myself. I'm not even supposed to be on computers as much as I am due to the extreme conditions of the monitor (I've been told to turn my brightness all the way down on the monitors... that's NOT GONNA HAPPEN, lol).


02/21/2012 01:16:38 PM · #24
I heard that the whole lighting in a room when using a monitor (originally watching a tv) was a myth perpetuated by the lighting industry to sell more lamps. Don't know if it's true though.
 02/21/2012 01:46:43 PM · #25
Originally posted by CNovack:
Originally posted by bob350:
During voting, images display with a long series of squares gradated from white to black down below the comment box. If you can see distinct differences between every square from one end to the other, then you probably have a pretty good display and pretty good brightness/contrast calibration. It can be a tool for comparing monitors too, although it doesn't address color calibration. Trouble is, those who don't calibrate their monitors and aren't educated about how much difference that makes my not even recognize why the gradient is there.


Since we cannot control how other monitors are set I wonder.....

Instead of that calibration bar at the bottom - could it be programed to appear at the top of the voting screen (not a pop-up box)

I.E.

Rate Submissions for the Current Challenge:

(Calibration Bar will be here)
To maximize viewing potential, your monitor should be able to see all squares on both sides of the spectrum
[..] I have checked my monitor for calibration
To begin voting, please click box to view thumbnails full size
.
.
.

NOTE: The box would be like what you have to check when you check off your submission stating it was taken during so and so dates. You will have to check the box if you want to go vote.

It would ONLY be a one time deal SPECIFICALLY for that challenge alone. So if you do 1/2 your voting on one day for the Love & Hate Challenge and the other half the next day, that check box will only greet you the first time out. But if you then go vote in Yet Another Box challenge, the check box will be there to greet you that first time.


Great idea!!


Message edited by author 2012-02-21 13:55:20.
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