DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Help me understand
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 33, (reverse)
AuthorThread
07/27/2012 05:51:24 AM · #1
First I am not attacking this photo and I gave it a 9 in voting so I have no issue with it getting a ribbon. Now with that said, help me understand the difference.

This image gets a ribbon with a score over a 7 and no 1's

My image gets barely a 5 and finishes in the bottom 25% with 19 1's....

True these were different challenges but it is arguable that they both should fit the respective challenge just fine.
Granted the winning image is done better but is it really done 2 full points better? Hopefully the voters are changing and becoming more acceptable to different images but I gotta admit it is slightly aggravating.
07/27/2012 06:18:13 AM · #2
I loved your image gave it an 8, but I've done similar gritty shots hopefully the soccermom mentality is going here and we can get back to doing what ever we want without fear of middle America voting it down.

I don't know why but maybe it's slightly more suttle than yours??
07/27/2012 06:25:38 AM · #3
Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:

First I am not attacking this photo and I gave it a 9 in voting so I have no issue with it getting a ribbon. Now with that said, help me understand the difference.

This image gets a ribbon with a score over a 7 and no 1's

My image gets barely a 5 and finishes in the bottom 25% with 19 1's....

True these were different challenges but it is arguable that they both should fit the respective challenge just fine.
Granted the winning image is done better but is it really done 2 full points better? Hopefully the voters are changing and becoming more acceptable to different images but I gotta admit it is slightly aggravating.


I think it's just relation to the theme... though both fit the theme...

The one for triptych was about guessing a word and conveying it through three photos.

Yours took a negative view on Family and while a valid one, probably got voted down for being negative. Also whether you meant it or not, there is a political element to your photo. The first shows ABUSE. Yours simply shows a child about to get a spanking. There are some who wrongly label warranted parental discipline as abuse, and so for those on both sides of the corporal punishment issue might have voted you up or down depending if they saw your photo as critical of their view. (just guessing here)
07/27/2012 06:40:48 AM · #4
My advice Minso, don't try to rationalize irrational people.
I've stopped questioning placements here long time ago.
07/27/2012 07:12:42 AM · #5
I think I am more hoping that the voters are becoming more open to "different" images. It kinda does seem that way to an extent. I suppose only time will tell. That and entering some crazy stuff to see what they do with it :)
07/27/2012 07:23:08 AM · #6
Joshua, you know I like your portraits, but I have to say that I see a huge difference between the ribbon winner and yours: I didn't like very much your image - the color, the composition, the out of focus (but not enough out of focus) on the left and above all the message is not so clear. If you see your nineteen 1's you can realize how your image didn't get the theme for that challenge. Someone has cast a 1 because they thought it was not a concept of a 'good' family while others have thought that it can be in some way in favor of this kind of violence. They were surely wrong but there can't be any other explanation for so many 1's

Last but not least - you can't compare two different challenges :)
07/27/2012 07:37:49 AM · #7
Great points Alex, thanks.
07/27/2012 07:40:42 AM · #8
Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:

I think I am more hoping that the voters are becoming more open to "different" images.


yeah, good luck with that.

Message edited by author 2012-07-27 07:41:01.
07/27/2012 07:43:58 AM · #9
Josh, I gave your image 9, and thought it was really good for that challenge. The first thing that occurred to me when I saw pamb's entry was that it was very similar, and I wondered if it would get a better reception. Maybe you were a pioneer.


Message edited by author 2012-07-27 07:46:31.
07/27/2012 07:58:21 AM · #10
I did not vote in the family challenge and it's the first time I see your image. Agree with Alex technical points. On to off these the room is also over very crowded, the bedsheet lots of elements details. All of these distract the eye (at least mine). On tphe other hand the ribbon image has a very good control of the DOF managing to clearly emphasize the message.

Regards,

Tibi
07/27/2012 09:56:23 AM · #11
Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:

That and entering some crazy stuff to see what they do with it :)

If you ever want ideas that push boundaries, let me know. Doesn't matter the challenge, I can always think of something that meets the description and is guaranteed to be controversial to conservative people. I just couldn't be bothered to enter challenges anymore, at least not consistently.
07/27/2012 10:02:10 AM · #12
I was curious and took a quick look. A quick look is all that was needed.
I like your photo but the ribbon photo is so much stronger than your entry, IMO than I think that it tells more story in this triptych form and I like the toning of it better.
07/27/2012 10:06:31 AM · #13
For me it was the belt... it's not possible for me to imagine punishing a child in that way. I don't want to look.
07/27/2012 10:08:12 AM · #14
i have some images in voting that i will probaaably be asking questions about after. it's frustrating when you can't see, at least for me, why you're getting a low score. another pair of eyes is usually relieving, helps you understand that you're not insane.

as for your image compared to pamb's, i see a lot of differences that would add to her score and take away from yours (technical differences apart from the challenge).

her processing is remarkable; the tones are fantastic, and the grittiness and detail in the face is spot on; very aesthetic elements that would add to the score. the processing in your own image is lackluster; i don't really like the colours you chose, and there's nothing else that's really dynamic.

the composition in hers is very focused; she really simplified her message in her image. in composition, simple is usually better. in your image, there are many distracting elements; the man in the foreground is out of focus, there is lots of clutter in the background, there's no real strong focal point. the blurry dude makes the image look a lot like a snapshot.

lastly, i think a huge factor going for pamb is that there is much stronger emotion in her shot. look at the the abusive dude's face in hers; the face is so set, the grimace is absolutely fantastic. you can't even see the whole face, but the parts you can see make him look like one goddamned mean bulldog of a bloke. the earring is perfection, makes him look even tougher, and that clenched fist in the next frame looks completely genuine and adds to the illusion. i'm glad that you can also see some of girl's face in the image, because the eyes are really convincing; both of these models acted superbly.

im not going to say that the emotion in your shot is completely absent, but the girl's pose doesn't seem all that convincing. the one hand up to her face doesn't look like a completely genuine assessment of what a person's pose would be like in such a situation; i think two hands and a different body placement would have helped.
07/27/2012 10:08:55 AM · #15
Hey man,

First Disclaimer, I m no master of the arts, just a guy looking at pictures with his own opinion.

I didn't vote in either challenge but heres what would go down in my process. I don't like negative pictures, this alone would bring them both down to a 9 ish.

The image from the other guy really takes good advantage of the tryptich and it gives him an advantage because he's got a complete story in that picture. There's also the fact that there are no distracting elements in his story. Your rooms full of little props that take away from the story. His cropping is tight, and it makes sense. Your image pulls into view a lot more things, so i m also thinking about sortof a generic room. This isn't always a bad thing, but his story feels more focused on the two subjects. Yours almost pulls in the socioeconomics with the state of that room beside the distracting patterns that don't really add much. His is more focused, yours is a bit more to think about than just the two subjects. This would let him keep his 9, you would probably come down to an 8 maybe 7.5 ish for that alone

The method of edit also matters here. His has a lot of clarity and stark edges, almost a halfway sketchbook ish style edit. He also makes effective use of DOF. His subjects beard/stubble work really well into making the edit work for the picture, so does the harshness.
Yours pulls into the sepia ish, but other than setting the mood for something not bright and cheerful, and even pulling away some attention from what looks to be potentially bright covers and background, its not doing much. I m saying you went in the right direction, just not as far as the other guy. He keeps his 9, you're down to 6.5-7.

i know i've touched on this before - but with more emphasis, expressions matter. The almost sad but grim-ish face of the subject in his, the partially visible face of that dejected girl her toes all cringed up as if shes expectin the belt. This would almost pull me towards thinking about giving this guy his 10, just maybe (certainly doesn't hurt) because he's doing it really well. I still would probably stick to a 9, but that depends on my mood (didn't say i was all objective). The hands over eyes do work to show that shes crying/hiding but you don't really see even a part of either face. This may pull you into a 6, if i feel that the idea is really an original though vs the rest of the competition, i MAY have given it a 7 on the concept- but nothing greater than 6-7.

I hope this helps clarify just a bit on what may go through one voter's head.

Message edited by author 2012-07-27 10:20:39.
07/27/2012 10:13:03 AM · #16
Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:

That and entering some crazy stuff to see what they do with it :)

If you ever want ideas that push boundaries, let me know. Doesn't matter the challenge, I can always think of something that meets the description and is guaranteed to be controversial to conservative people.


Fish in a barrel though isn't it? And, really, what's the point? I mean, being all sweary and shocking to offend the grown ups is all well and good when you're 14 but it kind of comes over a bit naff when you are over 19. And this is coming from me- the guy who managed to smuggle in his penis in probably one of the least romantic Valentine's Day challenge entries DPC has ever seen!

Message edited by author 2012-07-27 10:17:23.
07/27/2012 10:14:53 AM · #17
Originally posted by rooum:

Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:

That and entering some crazy stuff to see what they do with it :)

If you ever want ideas that push boundaries, let me know. Doesn't matter the challenge, I can always think of something that meets the description and is guaranteed to be controversial to conservative people.


Fish in a barrel though isn't it? And, really, what's the point? I mean, been all sweary and shocking to offend the grown ups is all well and good when you're 14 but it kind of comes over a bit naff when you are over 19. And this is coming from me- the guy who managed to smuggle in his penis in probably one of the least romantic Valentine's Day challenge entries DPC has ever seen!


you're going to need to post the link to that one.
07/27/2012 10:20:12 AM · #18
Alexkc and Tiberius both have some good points.

My addition to their points is that a Triptych can have an advantage over a single frame capture. That advantage is that the photographer can zoom in on the details they wish to present in each frame so that their audience is brought in closer to the action/message to unfold the story. You get the story in digestable pieces rather that one single frame where the details have to be sought out or are smack in your face depending on the perception of the viewer.

The other major difference between your image and the ribbon winner is that the tones/ contrasts. The contrast between shadows and highlights in the ribbon winner are deeper and more dynamic such that it is more 'moodier'. I think had yours had more dynamic contrasts between shadow and highlights it would have further complemented the 'dark' mood/message and may perhaps have clawed it's way up to a 6 despite the uncomfortable take on family it presents (though I would suggest a less busy backdrop and bedspread that would draw the eye's attention away from the message you wish to present)
07/27/2012 10:45:12 AM · #19
Thanks all. This is why dpc is great, you can actually get honest feedback. I may have to try and do a similar shot of my entry and see what I can do with it. Amazing how a few view points can help you see your own image better.
07/27/2012 10:59:58 AM · #20
I did one very similar a couple years ago. It also didn't do as well as I'd hoped.



Both of the other shots mentioned in the OP are superior to mine but the idea is pretty much the same. The ribbon winning entry IMHO is the vastly superior image of the three, partly because it was a tryptich which naturally allowed the photographer to tell a more complete story. Also the grittyness and PP is extremely well done, almost making look like stills from three different angles of the same scene in a movie.

Good ideas all around, one just sticks out as a better overall photo.

Message edited by author 2012-07-27 11:02:40.
07/27/2012 11:00:43 AM · #21
Originally posted by rooum:

Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:

That and entering some crazy stuff to see what they do with it :)

If you ever want ideas that push boundaries, let me know. Doesn't matter the challenge, I can always think of something that meets the description and is guaranteed to be controversial to conservative people.


Fish in a barrel though isn't it? And, really, what's the point? I mean, being all sweary and shocking to offend the grown ups is all well and good when you're 14 but it kind of comes over a bit naff when you are over 19. And this is coming from me- the guy who managed to smuggle in his penis in probably one of the least romantic Valentine's Day challenge entries DPC has ever seen!


Isn't smuggling things in your penis kind of painful?
07/27/2012 11:06:46 AM · #22
for me, i personally do not like the topic presented in either, as is the case with most people, so straight out my views of the image are already from a "i don't like this" perspective.
A part for me is the direct "i'm about to whoop your ass" quality of your photo, versus the impled "could happen but the antagonist is not moving into position to strike the child" quality of Pamb's photo.
If you had read my comment on Pam's image i said that from a 'feeling' perspective i'd vote hers a 1, and I would do the same with yours, and that quality is a part of my overall score that i give. Technically i'd have scored yours around a 4. The background clutter, while part of her room, is not essential to the image and a more shallow DoF to obscure it would help some. The colour on yours is distracting, the straight B&W is less distracting to the image and allows you to focus on the subjects properly.
While your image is still a valid viewpoint for family, it's fast becoming something associated with an older generation as physical (especially a belt) violence as a punishment is harshly criticized.
07/27/2012 11:10:39 AM · #23
Couple of thoughts:

When you shoot a negative subject (abuse, suicide, death, etc), you're going to have people who think it's a little sick, and you're going to have to really make a statement. Personally, I really dislike suicide shots. Most of the time they get a 4 because they just seem like they're trying to push your buttons and just seem gratuitous. The majority of the time, they just show a scene, but they're poorly done, and really don't evoke any emotion from me than disgust. There have been a handful, however, that have been truly spectacular and have elicited a 9 or 10. (I wish I could remember which ones and post a link -- sorry). But the point is, since it's a negative subject, you really have to be able to pull things out of people other than just disgust.

With Pam's photo, I felt the fear. The child did an incredible job. The missing but almost showing eye of the man was a brilliant crop -- I wanted more. I wanted to see this horrid person and look in his eyes. The grittiness of the processing fit the mood incredibly well. I said in a comment that this should be on billboards all over town (obviously with phone numbers of where to get help.)

Pam's photo made me feel not only disgust, but fear, curiosity, admiration (at the incredible photography -- composition and processing), and a desire to show the world.

Your photo is lacking in many areas. I gave it a 6 for being brave to take a different look at a challenge that was a warm fuzzy challenge. It really was a 5, but a point extra for thinking out of the box.

Here's the thing (I sound like Monk...)

1. The child isn't believable. Sorry, but this is probably the biggest negative in the shot. Everything that people said about the background being distracting is true, but I think it could have been overlooked if the child was believable. Look at Pam's girl -- I really feel something there. It comes across not only emotional, but on a couple of different levels. You have the fear of it coming again with the arms tightly wrapped around the legs, but there's also a look of resignation and despair. If the child was better, your score would most likely have been better.

2. The other point is that we're seeing it from the man's point of view in your shot. It's a point of view that hopefully none of us understands or should accept. That's where the disgust comes in with the picture. I think if you would have gotten down and shown it from the kids point of view, you might have elicited slightly different responses. Again, look at Pam's. Her second and third shot were down there with the child. We feel for her, we're seeing it from her viewpoint. One with which we sympathize or empathize. We don't have that in your shot.

I gave Pam's shot a 10. I'm incredibly surprised that it got blue instead of red. It should have beaten mine by a huge amount.

Message edited by author 2012-07-27 11:13:54.
07/27/2012 11:54:08 AM · #24
I agree with most of the comments. I don't believe anyone has mentioned the title's yet. While we should be judging on photography alone, the titles can help sway a vote.

In pamb's photo her title condemns what is portrayed in the actual photo.
Your title does not, and could even be interpreted as the actions being "justified".

Most people will know you don't actually condone what you pictured, but it obviously doesn't hurt to acknowledge that you don't approve of the thing you portrayed, or at the very least not be ambiguous about it. I'll add that the reason why she is being beat is not important to the message of your image. (EDIT: I just read the lyrics or poem in your description, I guess you weren't stating the reason. But unless you are familiar with that song/poem that message is lost, or even misunderstood [case and point - my interpretation of the title] on the viewer)

All that said, I think the absolute biggest factor was the challenge you entered, when people are looking at dozens of happy family photos a negative one will be rather jarring and voted on accordingly.


Message edited by author 2012-07-27 12:02:05.
07/27/2012 11:58:12 AM · #25
when i think i abuse i dont think of getting strapped and lord knows i took my share growing up (and admittedly deserved every single one, btw).

now a closed fist... that says something else entirely.

Pamb image hit that point home perfectly while the other two missed on some level, using a belt as a prop is just one of those levels. you also dont see the face or anger. when kids are abused the perpetrator is angry at something and venting their frustrations on the them.

Pages:  
Current Server Time: 03/28/2024 05:37:48 AM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2024 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 03/28/2024 05:37:48 AM EDT.