Don't be NEGATIVE if your score is lost in SPACE

10/04/2012 10:55:03 AM · #51

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by hahn23:
Negative Space V
Votes: 65
Views: 113
Avg Vote: 4.9538
Comments: 5

Evidently, there is a very narrow and specific definition of "negative space" that many are applying, but which was not known to me. It's the penalty I suffer for not reading every forum post and for not using a focus group. The challenge description said this: "As before, use the surrounding space of your subject to create the wow of the photograph." I'm really not exactly sure how people are narrowing the challenge description so much more by applying a set of criteria foreign to me and limiting the creative interpretation of the challenge. It's okay. I'll get over it. Can someone link to a forum discussion that proposed the narrow definition of "negative space"?

Richard, I'm pretty good at spotting your entries, and if your entry is the one I think it is, then my guess is that the voters were expecting a distinct subject, which was emphasized by the space around it, the entry I think may be yours doesn't really have a subject surrounded by space, and I myself voted it rather low.

CB

Cory, I agree with your assessment on my image. I do tend to lose image impact when the image gets diminished down to 800 pixels. That said, negative space does not need to be an area of featureless blank pixels lacking texture, detail and gradient, as some have suggested.

I don't believe I'm going to change my photography style in the future to meet the preferences of an 800 pixel competition. I must remind myself to lower my expectations, rather than dumb down my entries.

An elk in a meadow would have done much better IMO.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens

10/04/2012 10:58:20 AM · #52

Originally posted by hahn23:

Sure, I have more than my share of "downfall" faults. I suppose I really don't care much anymore. It used to be images in challenges were judged more on the caliber of the photography, rather than on how precisely they met challenge descriptions. It's a trend away from photography, which has been accelerating in the past few months. I've only been here for 600+ challenges and 6+ years, so what do I know. Not much, I guess!

:)

Surely you won't argue that being held to the theme is a bad thing? I agree technicals mean a lot, and they are one of the main things I rate on, but I also award big points for meeting the challenge well.

Speaking of technicals, if you're interested, PM me with your image title (so I can be sure), and I'd like to talk to you about some of the technicals of your entry to help you understand what I'm seeing that you may not be.

-CB

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

10/04/2012 11:05:38 AM · #53

Originally posted by Cory:

An elk in a meadow would have done much better IMO.

It is elk rut season.

I think this image would have failed the litmus test of those who are very intense about pressing their narrow definition of negative space. (Too much detail and texture in the surronding space., I suspect.)

I have no problem with meeting the challenge description in order to score well. And, if I didn't, then that's okay. My objectino is that lower votes are being cast because an image doesn't meet someone's narrower definition of the challenge... narrower than indicated by precedent or written description.

10/04/2012 11:19:35 AM · #54

As long as voting is even across the board, I don't see a problem. If there are 2 photos with pretty much even negative space and you take points off for one because of it, but you don't take points off for the other, then that's different.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens

10/04/2012 11:27:40 AM · #55

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by Cory:

An elk in a meadow would have done much better IMO.

It is elk rut season. I think this image would have failed the litmus test of those who are very intense about pressing their narrow definition of negative space. (Too much detail and texture in the surronding space., I suspect.)

I have no problem with meeting the challenge description in order to score well. And, if I didn't, then that's okay. My objectino is that lower votes are being cast because an image doesn't meet someone's narrower definition of the challenge... narrower than indicated by precedent or written description.

I don't know, I think the surrounding space has two issues here, neither is the texture or detail... It's too little space, and there's no impact created by it. Something more like this would have fit the bill better for my idea of negative space (in your style of course)

.. Obviously one - three elk would have been far better.

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

10/04/2012 11:33:11 AM · #56

Originally posted by Cory:

Sure, I certainly agree. However, some would call that scene "all subject" with no negative space. That is my point. Some voters are suggesting the "negative space" needs to consist of featureless void. I contend negative space can have detail, structure and gradients. But, it's a moot point.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

10/04/2012 11:34:25 AM · #57

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by Cory:

I don't know, I think the surrounding space has two issues here, neither is the texture or detail... It's too little space, and there's no impact created by it. Something more like this would have fit the bill better for my idea of negative space (in your style of course)

.. Obviously one - three elk would have been far better.

Sure, I certainly agree. However, some would call that scene "all subject" with no negative space. That is my point. Some voters are suggesting the "negative space" needs to consist of featureless void. I contend negative space can have detail, structure and gradients. But, it's a moot point.

:) But we like to put as fine of a point on moot points as possible around here.

Message edited by author 2012-10-04 11:34:41.

dougi555

Nikon D800

10/04/2012 01:27:05 PM · #58

Negative Space V
Votes: 64
Views: 126
Avg Vote: 6.7500
Comments: 2
Favorites: 1

Giles

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/04/2012 01:40:42 PM · #59

we have challenge title its not about forum posts or cliques for most people its a literal or a google image search

so negative space

neg·a·tive/ˈnegətiv/
Adjective:
Consisting in or characterized by the absence rather than the presence of distinguishing features.
Noun:
A word or statement that expresses denial, disagreement, or refusal: "she replied in the negative".
Exclamation:
No (usually used in a military context): "�Any snags, Captain?� �Negative, she's running like clockwork.�".
Verb:
Reject; refuse to accept; veto: "the bill was negatived by 130 votes to 129".
Synonyms:
adjective. minus - negatory - privative
noun. negation - denial - disavowal - refusal - no
verb. negate - refuse - repudiate - deny - reject - disallow

lets take that negative - Consisting in or characterized by the absence rather than the presence of distinguishing features.

so ergo anything that is distinguishing isn't negative so both example corry posted wouldn't fit with negative for me,

space/spās/
Noun:
A continuous area or expanse that is free, available, or unoccupied: "he backed out of the parking space".
Verb:
Position (two or more items) at a distance from one another: "the houses are spaced out".
Synonyms:
room - interval - place - distance - area - gap

i'll stop here.... sometimes you just miss what the voters are expecting

Message edited by author 2012-10-04 13:42:09.

10/04/2012 01:55:02 PM · #60

Originally posted by hahn23:

I think it's ok as long as you're voting consistantly across the board. Like, if I don't think a photo qualifies as having negative space, and there's another photo that has a similar type/amount/whatever of negative space, I shouldn't deduct points from one and not the other (based soley on the "does not meet challenge" aspect). As long as the voters are consistant with their own voting and there are enough total voters, it shouldn't make too much of a difference if a few people don't think it meets the challenge. Now if your average drastically does fall, maybe you really didn't meet the challenge.

PS- I had a large margarita at lunch and everytime I typed the word "meet" in this post, I first typed "meat".

10/04/2012 04:07:49 PM · #61

Originally posted by Giles_uk:

lets take that negative - Consisting in or characterized by the absence rather than the presence of distinguishing features.

so ergo anything that is distinguishing isn't negative so both example corry posted wouldn't fit with negative for me,

I'll just answer this by saying you clearly failed to look up both my name, and the definition of distinguishing. ;)

Grass isn't distinguishing, Elk are.

Message edited by author 2012-10-04 16:08:08.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/04/2012 06:48:32 PM · #62

I'm at a 5.7164 right now. Unfortunately, that's a PB for me so far. lol

MinsoPhoto

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

10/04/2012 06:52:59 PM · #63

Originally posted by lilysmom:

I'm at a 5.7164 right now. Unfortunately, that's a PB for me so far. lol

I was thrilled when I got my first image over a 5.5, a 6 was incredible and now I hate it if I get under a 6 lol.

Abra

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

10/04/2012 07:01:05 PM · #64

Votes: 66
Views: 113
Avg Vote: 5.7424
Comments: 0

Climbing nicely after being in the 4's at 20 votes.

10/05/2012 10:20:51 AM · #65

I'm falling. 5.5972

Fujifilm XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 OIS

10/08/2012 04:53:06 PM · #66

I'm officially "meh". I'm at a 5.5.

HCvE

Fujifilm X-T1

10/09/2012 02:43:21 AM · #67

Negative Space V
Votes: 100
Views: 168
Avg Vote: 4.6700

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/09/2012 11:29:01 PM · #68

You have rated 131 of 132 images (99%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 36 images (27%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.7939.

I enjoyed this challenge. A good picture always gets a good score from me, so I didn't penalize good pictures that didn't use negative space in an interesting way... but any photo that made some reasonable use of negative space got at least a 6 from me.

Negative space is not empty space. Quite the opposite.

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens

10/09/2012 11:33:56 PM · #69

Originally posted by posthumous:

HCvE

Fujifilm X-T1

Fujifilm XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 OIS

10/10/2012 02:10:20 AM · #70

My top 5;

MinsoPhoto

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

10/10/2012 05:17:22 AM · #71

Well mine completely bombed and I thought it was pretty good and interesting but apparently not. Anyone feel like giving their insight? I don't really want to start a thread for it.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/10/2012 02:23:10 PM · #72

Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:

Well mine completely bombed and I thought it was pretty good and interesting but apparently not. Anyone feel like giving their insight? I don't really want to start a thread for it.

I gave you a 6. You created shapes with negative space, which is the real goal here. I would have given you more, but I got hair in my mouth.

MinsoPhoto

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

10/10/2012 02:33:22 PM · #73

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:
Well mine completely bombed and I thought it was pretty good and interesting but apparently not. Anyone feel like giving their insight? I don't really want to start a thread for it.

I gave you a 6. You created shapes with negative space, which is the real goal here. I would have given you more, but I got hair in my mouth.

lmao, thanks for that. So if I shaved I would get more... lol

Venser

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

10/10/2012 02:38:29 PM · #74

Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:
Well mine completely bombed and I thought it was pretty good and interesting but apparently not. Anyone feel like giving their insight? I don't really want to start a thread for it.

I gave you a 6. You created shapes with negative space, which is the real goal here. I would have given you more, but I got hair in my mouth.

lmao, thanks for that. So if I shaved I would get more... lol

I shaved specifically for the challenge and looked where I ended up!