Duotones - DPChallenge Forums

03/25/2013 09:52:25 AM · #2

So, a B&W Free Study?.. ;-)

mefnj

Nikon D7100

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

03/25/2013 10:36:45 AM · #3

[ duplicate post ]

Message edited by author 2013-03-25 10:37:42.

Yandrosxx

Apple iPhone 5

03/25/2013 10:40:42 AM · #4

Sort of. Was my thought too. BUt not exactly, you could do two tones of different colors. Pure red on pure blue, I suppose.

Or Sepia, but I'm not a fan of Sepia. For practical purposes its probably a BW FS.

thriftyphotographer

Canon EOS-600D/T3i Rebel

03/25/2013 10:47:12 AM · #5

Originally posted by Yandrosxx:

For practical purposes its probably a BW FS.

I agree but calling it "duotone" made me think about it a lot differently than just calling it black & white.

03/25/2013 10:54:21 AM · #6

Toning is, IMO, an art form all its own. It does dpeend on starting with an image that works well for it. Images that work well for B+W almost always work as toned images. The specific toning that works for one image, though, may not work for another. Choice of toning colors and how to apply them is key.

mefnj

Nikon D7100

Sony Sonnar T* 35mm F2.8 ZA

03/25/2013 12:44:27 PM · #7

Agreed.. Having looked at paste challenges I see it tints, cyanotypes, etc. should be interesting

salmiakki

Sony Alpha a7R III

03/25/2013 12:53:06 PM · #8

Probably worthwhile taking a look at an old tutorial about how to create duotones. It's good to refresh the memory on these things

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/25/2013 01:10:31 PM · #9

It's worth noting that there is one rather glaring issue with the traditional Ps "Duotone" functionality, namely that we must first convert to an 8-bit gray image prior to performing the toning. I gave up on Adobe ever updating this to be compatible with at least a 16-bit gray image, and I now use alternative means to produce my toned images.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

03/25/2013 01:11:46 PM · #10

Originally posted by salmiakki:

Probably worthwhile taking a look at an old tutorial about how to create duotones. It's good to refresh the memory on these things

The tutorial is fine, but it is easy to overlook this critical line somewhat buried within it:

Originally posted by Duotone Tutorial:

You can now use Image > Mode > RGB Color to get back to 'normal' while retaining the duotone image.

In Photoshop, "Duotone" is a proprietary color mode, and you cannot save it as a JPEG without first converting the mode back to RGB.

Another (Photoshop) way to achieve a toning effect without using Duotone mode:

1. Make an adjustment layer with the Channel Mixer; set to "monochrome mode" and adjust the sliders until you get a good-looking grayscale image

2. Make an adjustment layer with Curves (or Levels); select one of the color channels and adjust to achieve the toning desired.

I usually make the adjustments in the Blue Channel; moving the graph toward Blue will give a shading I think looks a bit like a traditional print toned with selenium, while moving it toward Yellow ("opposite" of Blue on the color wheel) gives a sepia-like look.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/25/2013 03:05:09 PM · #11

Good info Paul... that's just one of about a thousand ways to avoid the "bit depth pothole" of Adobe's process. The downside to these work-arounds, of course, is that they are either both very flexible and complicated, or somewhat inflexible and not so complicated.

Garry

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/25/2013 03:08:40 PM · #12

Nik SEP does a fabulous job, too.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

03/25/2013 03:29:37 PM · #13

Originally posted by kirbic:

Well, I think Curves are both simple and flexible ... :-)

As to your earlier problem, since you have to get the final from 16-bit to 8-bit at some point, perhaps the best sequence would be to make the best 16-bit grayscale image you can, then convert that to 8-bit, and then proceed to convert to Duotone mode.

03/25/2013 03:36:15 PM · #14

Originally posted by GeneralE:

As to your earlier problem, since you have to get the final from 16-bit to 8-bit at some point, perhaps the best sequence would be to make the best 16-bit grayscale image you can, then convert that to 8-bit, and then proceed to convert to Duotone mode.

Yep, if you must use the Ps "Duotone" process, then that's the best way. But it still means we dump all but 256 levels in a single channel. After that, we need to convert back to an RGB image to save in a common format. Now, we are creating three 8-bit channels from a single 8-bit input channel, plus the toning information. This process has two inherent issues, both of which are major, IMO:
1.) The resulting file is very "thin." You better not want to do much if any further adjustment on it.
2.) You cannot adjust your gray conversion on the fly. If you realize that a slightly different gray conversion would be better as input to the process, well, go back and start over.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

03/25/2013 03:51:33 PM · #15

I used to make "duotone" prints in the darkroom. I'd use blue toner, and two part sepia toner, it made a horrible smell, stained everything and some of the byproducts might have been dangerous. I remember that different papers would give very different results and that I preferred Ilford FB multigrade.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8

03/25/2013 04:18:22 PM · #16

This page by Ken Lee shows a good, non-destructive method for toning in Ps. It's the process I use... almost. It does assume that our input image has already been converted to grays. Instead, I start with my color image, in 16-bit per channel mode. I then apply a Channel Mixer Adjustment Layer, check the "Monochrome" box and adjust to get the gray image that I want as input. I then follow Ken's process.
The result of this is that we can:
- Toggle between the gray image and the toned image (toggle the visibility of the color layer)
- Tweak the color of the fill layer as desired, change the intensity of color, all on the fly
- Readjust our grayscale input image as needed while the toning is visible. The final output is instantly visible
- Save to a 16-bit per channel RGB output file directly, or use Save for Web to save directly as an (8-bit per channel) JPEG file.
It's possible to use "blend if", layer masks, more than one color overlay, you name it to customize the process, and you can still maintain a completely non-destructive workflow. Find a combination of settings that you really like? Save it as an action, and you have one-click toning that you can *still* go back and tweak manually.

ETA:
This technique is workable in any version of Ps that allows for both a Channel Mixer Adjustment Layer and a fill Layer, and that goes pretty far back. The compatibility of the Channel Mixer layer with 16-bit images may be questionable back prior to CS3 or so.

Message edited by author 2013-03-25 16:26:05.

Gordon_1

Nikon D800

03/25/2013 04:20:06 PM · #17

Originally posted by salmiakki:

Probably worthwhile taking a look at an old tutorial about how to create duotones. It's good to refresh the memory on these things

Thanks for the linky

salmiakki

03/25/2013 04:31:03 PM · #18

@ Paul:
What I'm getting at with the "complexity vs. flexibility" thing is that in order to do what the Ps Duotone process does, it's usually more complex. For instance, one of my favorite toning settings was a quadtone. In order to duplicate this using the technique above, I'd have to create no less than four separate color fill layers and control how they blend.
The good news is, it's really not necessary to go to that level of complexity, IMO. A single color layer, or perhaps two, is all that's normally required. I actually find the Fill Layer process to be more intuitive than the "native" Ps process.

03/25/2013 09:35:52 PM · #19

Originally posted by Aperture_Ready:

... Duotones IV

Originally posted by mefnj:

So, a B&W Free Study?.. ;-)

I intentionally the first three that were linked in the first quote ... in using the last Duotones challenge it seems that only two of the Top 10 were Black & White, and even then not hardcore (possible hint of sepia in the 2nd place one and slight blue tone in the 10th place one).

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens

03/26/2013 07:08:20 AM · #20

Ha! This is so funny. Can't generate much conversation now on tones, shades of, etc... now, but wait until the challenge starts and the scores thread will be full of what people think the photos should or should not be. :-) Guess it's not much fun to discuss ahead of time, eh?

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

03/26/2013 07:31:29 AM · #21

I found that I was compelled to add tone somewhat more than I normally would, so voters would not DNMC because they thought it was a "common" b&w. 77% silver toning and 4% paper toning was about right for my toning hue and the subject. My problem is (and continues to be) the 800 pixel size constraint. Not only does my image lose impact at 800 pixels, it is not a very good thumbnail for the thumbnail voters. Anyway, bottom line is .... I overtoned to conform to what voters may be expecting in the challenge. When I put the image into gallery production, it will be toned less blatantly.

03/26/2013 08:01:25 AM · #22

Originally posted by hahn23:

I found that I was compelled to add tone somewhat more than I normally would, so voters would not DNMC because they thought it was a "common" b&w. ...

Yeah, kind of thinking similarly. I bring it up because earlier it was mentioned this was nothing more than a B&W Freestudy, but the results of the last Duotones challenge speak differently (as far as what scored well).

Good luck with the gallery print BTW. :-)

Garry

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/26/2013 08:10:51 AM · #23

This one just rocked!

03/26/2013 09:03:13 AM · #24

Originally posted by gcoulson:

This one just rocked!

It is refreshing indeed!

Ja-9

Nikon D750