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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> VR vs non-VR Nikor Lenses
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09/01/2014 02:08:48 PM · #1
All:

I apologize if this has been debated thoroughly already in the forums. Sometimes it is a challenge to find a specific thread to answer your questions.

There has been a lot written on the image quality of the Nikon D3100. I am trying a few last things before I decide whether I want to invest in something to move to the next level of photo equipment quality. Granted, I understand photo quality has many factors, most of which are related to the skill of the photographer, which I am still developing. So, to my question...

I have a standard Nikon D3100 "starter" kit with the Nikkor DX 18-55 mm and 55-200 mm lenses. Since these are non-VR lenses, am I losing a lot of sharpness even if I primarily shoot still shots on a tripod using timed release, low ISO (100-200), moderate f-stop (5.6-11), and live-view mode?

Thanks.

Message edited by author 2014-09-01 14:11:28.
09/01/2014 02:19:30 PM · #2
While using VR I can consistently do handheld shots at say 1/15 with a 24mm lens and get decent sharpness

when not using VR ... I need to go to 1/focal length... at least, then on a bad day or when going fast 1/(2xfocal length)

you need to learn to give VR a fraction of a second to stabilize before clicking the shooter, otherwise it might be counter productive

VR does help but it is not magic

answering your question ... "it depends " :)

Message edited by author 2014-09-01 14:19:59.
09/01/2014 02:38:40 PM · #3
If you're mainly a tripod shooter and thinking of going VR, you may be interested in this link.
09/01/2014 04:59:30 PM · #4
Thank you for your comments and insights.

I can understand that it depends on a several factors, and the article basically says if you are using a tripod, no need for VR.

So, if I am taking out most of the factors that lead to a less than clear, crisp photo, then either the camera/lens setup is an issue or there is some other lesser known factor. Could the issue be the quality of my filter? I am using a Rocketfish UV filter.
09/01/2014 05:31:33 PM · #5
are you shooting raw ? what do you use to convert to jpg?
can you share an image you think should be sharp and did come out as you expected it?

edit: I normally do not use any filter, and have never damaged a lens, I may use one if I'm looking for a particular effect

Message edited by author 2014-09-01 17:32:59.
09/01/2014 06:25:10 PM · #6
Of course you can live without VR (24-70 Nikkor doesn't have VR)

Of course you should turn VR off when taking long exposures.

Of course VR can be useful - I only have one VR lens and photography is what I do for a living :)
09/01/2014 07:25:41 PM · #7
Are the entire images not sharp, or is is one zone? It could be a focus issue.
If you have Nikon friends nearby, or are in a camera club, you could probably borrow a lens long enough to compare.
09/03/2014 04:53:52 PM · #8
Thanks again for the comments and feedback. As follow up...

1. I generally shoot RAW + Fine JPEG. If I soot RAW only, I usually convert with the View NX 2 software provided by Nikon.

2. I took 4 photos today and placed them in the Temp collection under my portfolio. All were shot on a tripod using timed release. I turned off all processing settings on the camera and performed no post processing. Here are the basic and specific settings I used:

ISO: 100
Focus Mode: AF-S
Focal Length: 30 mm
Metering: Center Weighted
WB: Direct Sunlight
Picture Control: Standard

DSC_4688: f 5.6, 1/400 s
DSC_4689: f 8, 1/200 s
DSC_4690: f 11, 1/60 s
DSC_4691: f 16, 1/50 s

I am still not happy with the clarity, but maybe my expectations are too high. Any comments would be great.
09/03/2014 05:27:51 PM · #9
used to be VR and tripods were counter productive, at least it was that way with Canon. Not sure that's an issue any more.

If you are "pixel peeping" on images created with a kit lens or any lower end system lens (i think the 2 you listed qualify) you're probably going to be disappointed.

These lenses are capable of taking outstanding images but they will not hold up under 100% magnification to the more expensive lenses. For web viewing and most printing you probably wont notice a sharpness difference that can't be made up for in post processing.

Don't get me wrong, I am a big time high quality optics kind of guy. I'm just saying that the more expensive lenses are more expensive for a reason.

Just my 2 cents.
09/03/2014 07:26:25 PM · #10
I agree, you generally get what you pay for. I am just trying to distinguish between whether I just have too high a expectation for my current gear or whether I am largely to blame for the image quality.
09/03/2014 11:20:26 PM · #11
The UV filter may be part of the problem. Try similar shots with and without the filter.
Again, if you can borrow or try out one of the more expensive lenses at a friends place or store you may be impressed with the difference. When I got my first 18-70, I was almost amazed at the clarity and sharpness difference from what I had been using.
IMHO, the VR lenses are well worth the extra cost, even if you don't think that you will need that feature. A lot more photos come out sharp when you are shooting on the move, or with a tripod in wind. The newer VR is good on tripods, except for very long exposures.

Message edited by author 2014-09-03 23:28:05.
09/04/2014 05:53:56 AM · #12
What scarbrd said.

Also, if you have the non-VR lenses, don't go and buy the VR versions! It's just not worth it (IMO). Rather get a fast prime - faster lenses will allow you to shoot at > 1/focal length, and are much better quality. The Nikon 18-55 is not a sharp lens and the D3100 is good enough to show this at 100%. The 55-200 VR is supposedly sharper than the non-VR, but I really don't think the difference is worth it. The 55-200 is actually quite a decent lens.

I have the D3100 with 18-55 and 55-200, both VR. It is nice, but ISO-800 is also fine on the D3100, so you should get your shutter speed where you actually need to handhold the long lens. I bought a 50mm 1.8G and I use that 95% of the time (and it cost less than the two VR lenses second hand).
09/04/2014 07:41:12 AM · #13
Originally posted by hiltonmd:

...All were shot on a tripod using timed release....

I'm wondering how stable your tripod is - all 4 of those shots have different framing. The camera moved when you changed the settings... which means the tripod probably wasn't that stable.
Yes your shutter speeds are fast enough to not really need a tripod for this test but shots around the speeds of 1/30s are effected by movement as the shutter slaps down.

As scarbrd said - you have equipment on the lower end of the system and won't get image quality that the high end products put out. That is why it costs less.

I don't realy think it is user error giving the image quality. Most likely you are getting the best quality that your equipment is capable of giving you.
09/04/2014 08:31:29 AM · #14
Originally posted by Silent-Shooter:

Originally posted by hiltonmd:

...All were shot on a tripod using timed release....

I'm wondering how stable your tripod is - all 4 of those shots have different framing. The camera moved when you changed the settings... which means the tripod probably wasn't that stable.
Yes your shutter speeds are fast enough to not really need a tripod for this test but shots around the speeds of 1/30s are effected by movement as the shutter slaps down.

As scarbrd said - you have equipment on the lower end of the system and won't get image quality that the high end products put out. That is why it costs less.

I don't realy think it is user error giving the image quality. Most likely you are getting the best quality that your equipment is capable of giving you.


I agree.

A tip with shooting off a tripod - use live view. On the D3100, live view is as close as you'll get to mirror lock-up, and will shake the camera the least (since the mirror doesn't have to move).
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