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04/16/2015 08:49:41 PM · #1
Now that I have your attention. I have noticed that most low scores occur in the beginning of the voting. Most of the time the final score is higher than the beginning score. I suspect that the first votes that are made are those of contestants who have a picture entered in that challenge. Or that lower scores are given after the contestant sees how his/her picture is doing and then votes the other pictures accordingly. I believe that there are some (not everyone) who intentionally give lower scores in challenges they enter so that their picture will hopefully end up with a better placement in the end. This may be unintentional, but I believe it to be true.
At the other end of the spectrum, I believe that there are those who may arrange to have their picture receive higher scores by cooperation with other voters.
I therefore propose that the lowest 10 scores and the highest 5 scores be dropped from everyone's entry to help neutralize this potentially unfair practice.
What do you think?
04/16/2015 08:52:31 PM · #2
I don't agree with the proposed idea.

In fact, I have had the opposite happen a few times. Usually on photos that are "DPC eye candy", or as close as my work gets.

I think the early voters like certain types of photos more than others, nothing wrong with that. It's a contest and throwing out votes doesn't seem fair to me.
04/16/2015 09:01:44 PM · #3
A scrubber is already in place...that's why at the very last minute your picture can go up or down accordingly. Already done...
04/16/2015 09:15:34 PM · #4
Oh dear. Another vote conspiracy thread...

You've been around long enough to have read the countless threads on this. In addition, a couple of DPCers are statisticians and created threads showing that statistically, these assumptions just don't add up. Anecdotally, I've had voting start with a 10 and end with a 5. I've had voting start with a 1 and gotten a ribbon. We try to find patterns, but truly, there just aren't any. The unevenness is more due to individual voting tastes, styles (some give every entry a 5 and then bump up or down as they review), that some don't vote 100% on a challenge, some use a 1-10 scoring system while others use a 1-3 scoring system.

In addition, as Ja-9 has already said, we have software in place to detect when there ARE patterns. Friend or strategic voting is a direct violation of terms of service (TOS), which results in a suspension if caught, and a permanent ban if repeted.

04/16/2015 09:36:23 PM · #5
Wow, do I feel stupid. :(
04/16/2015 09:40:04 PM · #6
Originally posted by lnede:

Wow, do I feel stupid. :(


Welcome to the club :)
04/16/2015 09:56:27 PM · #7
Some of that perception may be caused by the running average displayed. Early on, when there are few votes to calculate the average off of, a low vote or a high one will cause wild swings.
04/16/2015 09:56:29 PM · #8


//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=1146806

Message edited by author 2015-04-16 21:57:56.
04/16/2015 10:48:24 PM · #9
also, I dislike the solution because it silences extremists. sometimes extremists are good, like abolitionists and the Sex Pistols.
04/16/2015 11:27:45 PM · #10
and if we drop the highest scores I surely won't have any.
04/16/2015 11:43:41 PM · #11
Originally posted by tnun:

and if we drop the highest scores I surely won't have any.


LOL. Great way of putting what we were all thinking ;)
04/17/2015 01:34:11 AM · #12
Yes, pretending more low votes don't exist than high votes is a great way to bolster our self-aggrandizement. More of that, please!
04/17/2015 01:44:47 AM · #13
Current lawn challenge

Originally posted by Giles:
Originally posted by Giles:
Originally posted by Giles:
Votes: 4
Views: 19
Avg Vote: 7.7500
Comments: 2
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 04/15/15 02:13 am

Votes
8
Views: 34
Avg Vote: 6.6250
Comments: 2
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 04/15/15 05:56 am

20
Views: 62
Avg Vote: 6.4000
Comments: 4
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 04/15/15 04:31 pm

Votes: 25
Views: 73
Avg Vote: 6.2000
Comments: 5
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 04/16/15 03:17 am

Opposite to what you said early votes good then been heading down ever since,
04/17/2015 05:58:13 AM · #14
Originally posted by lnede:


I therefore propose that the lowest 10 scores and the highest 5 scores be dropped from everyone's entry to help neutralize this potentially unfair practice.
What do you think?


you are just going to narrow the bell curve by lopping of the tails.. the difference between blue an brown would become way too narrow.

I may have some of issues with dpc, but none of them is the integrity of the challenges.

04/17/2015 07:30:10 AM · #15
I actually find the opposite. My score starts high and falls from there. It's been consistently that way since the beginning of the year. I'd like your scenario better (the low votes in the beginning, not dropping the votes). I'd be so much happier watching my scores rise than fall!

People's votes should count. I rarely give 9s and 10s, because a photo really has to impress me or make an incredible connection. If I think a photo is that special, I want that vote to count. Do I like the low votes? No. Do I agree with the low votes? No. Do I think this site is getting a bit more harsh and narrow-minded? Yes. But these fluctuations come and go with the people that come and go. It's life. Parts suck. Parts are great. That's the way it is.
04/17/2015 08:03:24 AM · #16
Funny, I find both situations. When I've had a high scorer, I've found they start high and drop. When I enter a stinker (like I have on my last two), they start low and rise. The middling stuff just generally hangs in the middle all week.

I won't deny that the voting patterns can sometimes leave you scratching your head, but that doesn't mean there's anything corrupt about it. It all evens out in the end.

Message edited by author 2015-04-17 08:04:18.
04/17/2015 08:08:35 AM · #17
Definetly more harsh of late and closed minded

But I was like that at the start I think as PPP spend time here there tastes broaden and they appreciate the art of photography not just the challenge, think we are seeing less and less long term members participating and voting which results in more newer members voting on very narrow interpretations

Open challenges often suffer lower scores and harsher votes from participants
04/17/2015 08:18:58 AM · #18
Early score-watching is frustrating and tends to result in conspiracy theories. This isn't just in DPC. When I was playing NBA fantasy basketball, I continually thought it was fixed and predictable. Maybe it was - but not by me ;)
Don't feel bad - I know where you are coming from.

My last several entries have started out about 1.5-2 points higher than where they finished. What's up with the high early votes? Ho-Hum
04/17/2015 08:21:36 AM · #19
how about we remove the update button? i think it would be quite fun not to have any idea of your score until the end.



Message edited by author 2015-04-17 08:22:35.
04/17/2015 08:35:09 AM · #20
Originally posted by Mike:

how about we remove the update button? i think it would be quite fun not to have any idea of your score until the end.


Easiest way to do this is dont renew membership and update button would go away along with many other things ;)
04/17/2015 08:42:49 AM · #21
Originally posted by pgirish007:

Originally posted by Mike:

how about we remove the update button? i think it would be quite fun not to have any idea of your score until the end.


Easiest way to do this is dont renew membership and update button would go away along with many other things ;)


true, but i'm talking about no one being able to see their score at all until after voting is over. it think it might increase excitement.

04/17/2015 08:43:29 AM · #22
Originally posted by pgirish007:

Originally posted by Mike:

how about we remove the update button? i think it would be quite fun not to have any idea of your score until the end.


Easiest way to do this is dont renew membership and update button would go away along with many other things ;)

Or deselect the option "Show average score for my submissions during voting week." on your Preferences page.
04/17/2015 08:45:12 AM · #23
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by pgirish007:

Originally posted by Mike:

how about we remove the update button? i think it would be quite fun not to have any idea of your score until the end.


Easiest way to do this is dont renew membership and update button would go away along with many other things ;)

Or deselect the option "Show average score for my submissions during voting week." on your Preferences page.


i want to force everyone to do it my way, not make it voluntary :P

that's the true dpc way.
04/17/2015 10:08:12 AM · #24
Has there ever been any discussion about not letting such a needle-precise score be posted?
Maybe on "Open challenges" the persons "rank" can be listed- top ten, top twenty, etc.- with the
goal being that scores don't preoccupy or fill the mind of (someone) continually, intrusively, and to a troubling extent.

What are the parameters for this "vote scrubbing" that so wonderfully neutralizes out-liers? I though tit just dropped votes at the end from people who didn't achieve the minimum amounts of votes? if there is a futuristic robot "actively seeking and removing" patterns(cheating) - are there sanctions imposed when this happens? whey else would it be necessary?

But to the big picture- Its not about controlling people- its about people hating change. The worst maxim ever is "if it ain't broke don't fix it." That is not truth. That is propaganda spread by those who hate all change.-

ETA- lots of people told abolitionists(and the sex pistols) "it ain't broke- don't fix it."

Message edited by author 2015-04-17 10:09:28.
04/17/2015 10:52:30 AM · #25
We do have algorithms that detect patterns in voting.

For those whose scores "preoccupy or fill the mind of continually, intrusively, and to a troubling extent", see a doctor.
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