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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> The ruse of anonymity
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06/17/2015 03:43:50 PM · #1
This topic was brought up in another thread so...

How can it be against the rules to "publish" a photo somewhere else, but fully legal to enter the same shot(for all intents and purposes) here, where one challenge ends and you clearly know who took them all before they leave voting. For instance, a multiply entered bridge shot, as referenced in a previous thread. Doesn't this violate the spirit of the rule even more than entering a challenge elsewhere on the web?

It is just silly to say, well, the subjects are going to be the same there is nothing we can do...- yes you can, get rid of the double standard.

(BTW, I happen to think the bridge shots are great, respect the photog, and I am on the side of it not being illegal, just questioning why we keep up game that is false anonymity, or, anonymity for a some, not others.)
06/17/2015 03:48:04 PM · #2
There is no rule against publishing elsewhere. There's no rule against entering essentially the same shot either, as long as it is based on a different exposure. There is only a rule against using the same original exposure(s) as the basis for entries for more than one challenge.
06/17/2015 03:52:41 PM · #3
There is no rule against displaying your shot on social media or anywhere else during or before the challenge?
06/17/2015 04:07:04 PM · #4
I don't believe so, but it is considered poor form. Most folks who keep a port up at 1x, 500 pixles, flickr, ect. will wait until voting is over to publish shots they submit here. But I know of no rule that requires it.
06/17/2015 04:16:13 PM · #5
Nope. Nothing to prevent anyone from posting their entry elsewhere. Are you suggesting that knowing the photographer's identity would influence the score?
06/17/2015 04:19:10 PM · #6
There are still so many photos that haven't been published elsewhere, where you still know the photographer. Seriously, when you think about it, looking through a challenge you can usually pick out a number by style, some by subject, etc. I use the same model over and over, because it's my kid. I had access to one or two other people, just because they're friends that will help out. I've gotten hit by voters for this. But seriously, do I stop entering anything that needs a person because people don't want to see my kid again? Not happening. I want to play. I want to learn. I want to grow, and I use the things to which I have access.

Also, regarding facebook, etc. Sometimes it just doesn't make the same impression when you post something a week after it happens. So if someone is excited about something they've done, and I happen to see it, I usually don't vote on it. Simply because if I've had more access to that because it was posted there a couple of days before, I honestly don't know if seeing it longer makes it have more of an impression (or perhaps less). So if I see anything in advance, I just skip voting on it.

Our lived don't have to stop just because of DPC. We're not going after big money prizes. I made the mistake of posting something on facebook during voting once, and received a one and a comment that I was doing something unfair, so I haven't done it again since. Do I think it's unfair? No. If people want to do it, that's their prerogative.
06/17/2015 04:52:06 PM · #7
Originally posted by tanguera:

Nope. Nothing to prevent anyone from posting their entry elsewhere. Are you suggesting that knowing the photographer's identity would influence the score?


In my case, yes. :)
06/17/2015 05:10:47 PM · #8
Originally posted by klkitchens:

Originally posted by tanguera:

Nope. Nothing to prevent anyone from posting their entry elsewhere. Are you suggesting that knowing the photographer's identity would influence the score?


In my case, yes. :)


Me too, however, if I have seen a photo else wehre I just don't vote on it period.. I will make comments on it and move on... doesn't bother me one way or another.
06/17/2015 06:12:13 PM · #9
So if you know a person went to the galapogos islands, but didnt see the actual shot, but then there was a clearly galapogos island shot in the challenge, would you obstain from voting? Why? Are you claiming its not possible to be objective if we either know who it is, or have seen the exact photo?
06/17/2015 06:16:11 PM · #10
Originally posted by blindjustice:

There is no rule against displaying your shot on social media or anywhere else during or before the challenge?


I've never seen such a rule. I usually impose it on myself for the one week challenges, but it's a lot harder to do for the Free Studies and Best of challenges. And even for the one-week challenges, I sometimes allow myself to post it elsewhere before the voting is over. First of all, virtually no one here participates at any of the other places I do and secondly, sometimes the entry is time sensitive elsewhere in a way that conflicts with the schedule here at DPC. I just expect people to do as others have said they do and not vote if they think for any reason that knowing the entry is mine would influence their score.
06/17/2015 06:54:30 PM · #11
Originally posted by blindjustice:

There is no rule against displaying your shot on social media or anywhere else during or before the challenge?


As Johanna has said, there is no such rule and it would be wrong to have one. The photographer's image is theirs to do with as they wish - to publish wherever and whenever they wish.

I have no trouble whatsoever it voting equitably on images where I know the identity of the photographer. I either like the image or I don't (or it's somewhere in between). Whether I know the photographer or not (and it's often very easy to discern) plays no part in how I view the image - or score it. I have a job that requires me to assess those I know all the time. Whether they do well or not is entirely down to their performance. No different here really.
06/17/2015 07:00:02 PM · #12
Originally posted by Paul:

Originally posted by blindjustice:

There is no rule against displaying your shot on social media or anywhere else during or before the challenge?


As Johanna has said, there is no such rule and it would be wrong to have one. The photographer's image is theirs to do with as they wish - to publish wherever and whenever they wish.

There's no rule against posting, but there is a rule against using such posting to promote your entry.
06/17/2015 07:23:07 PM · #13
As a refresher on how to vote:

You look at the image. You either like it or don't. Who took it should be utterly irrelevant. If it isn't, you are obviously scoring the photographer and not the photograph. I propose you don't vote on that image.

Should we ban self-portraits? Family members? Pets we see all the time? Shots at a location that is identifiable as partial to a photographer?

There is no evidence that an image previously viewed elsewhere scores better (or worse) in a challenge.

Tempest in a teapot, truly.
06/17/2015 07:27:18 PM · #14
goodness gracious. let us talk about the ruse of righteousness instead.
06/17/2015 08:16:49 PM · #15
I sometimes LOVE my age-onset dyslexia... I just read good Timothy's post as "let us talk about the ruse of nakedness instead"...

Carry on....

P.S. To all my co-Facebook friends, I'm going to start posting my shots there first for feedback. If you like them there, let me know and I'll send a small sum each week...

(JUST KIDDING!) (Unless it will work, then not kidding!)
06/17/2015 08:58:59 PM · #16
wait. so i shouldn't be voting 1's for people i don't like?



Message edited by author 2015-06-17 21:03:25.
06/17/2015 10:16:36 PM · #17
Originally posted by Melethia:



P.S. To all my co-Facebook friends, I'm going to start posting my shots there first for feedback. If you like them there, let me know and I'll send a small sum each week...

(JUST KIDDING!) (Unless it will work, then not kidding!)


LOL
06/17/2015 10:35:12 PM · #18
Originally posted by Mike:

wait. so i shouldn't be voting 1's for people i don't like?

I've been told we are to just appreciate your sarcasm.
06/17/2015 10:37:21 PM · #19
Originally posted by Mike:

wait. so i shouldn't be voting 1's for people i don't like?


Not when they're on your dpl team! How many times must I explain this?!?
06/17/2015 10:43:40 PM · #20
I remember once a certain photographer on here who will remain nameless gave vawendy a one and wrote that on her photographers comments bc she said Wendy posted the same photo she entered on FB, I thought that was a little harsh. I've tossed up whether to enter something before that I've posted on my FB page and 500px also, knowing I'm sure some of you have seen it.

Message edited by author 2015-06-17 22:43:52.
06/18/2015 06:03:04 AM · #21
Originally posted by tanguera:

As a refresher on how to vote:

You look at the image. You either like it or don't. Who took it should be utterly irrelevant. If it isn't, you are obviously scoring the photographer and not the photograph. I propose you don't vote on that image.

Should we ban self-portraits? Family members? Pets we see all the time? Shots at a location that is identifiable as partial to a photographer?

There is no evidence that an image previously viewed elsewhere scores better (or worse) in a challenge.

Tempest in a teapot, truly.


Not ban it, but admit there is no real anonymity, and let people know who posted the shot during the challenge. What are we afraid of? As PAUL says, one can be objective, one simply has to want to be objective. Or simply continue status quo and have only the "celebrity" dpc'ers' entries be known. (BTW, nothing you could ever do about campy self protraits.)

Message edited by author 2015-06-18 06:05:49.
06/18/2015 06:32:47 AM · #22
Wasn't there an exit plugin for one of the browsers that on mouse over showed the exif info inc copyright hard coded by the camera this came up in previous conversations about this?

Vote on the image and its relation to the challenge not on the photographer etc

I've had comments that they've knocked off a point for the title! Which strikes me as ridiculous as well
06/18/2015 07:59:56 AM · #23
Originally posted by Giles:

Wasn't there an exit plugin for one of the browsers that on mouse over showed the exif info inc copyright hard coded by the camera this came up in previous conversations about this?

Vote on the image and its relation to the challenge not on the photographer etc

I've had comments that they've knocked off a point for the title! Which strikes me as ridiculous as well


Google Chrome has an Exif Data Viewer extension on google chrome..

As for the titles, the only time points I ever knocked off points was when the title was important to the challenge, otherwise titles are not important to me :-)
Like we had tons of them and the last one comes to mind was the Billy Joel Song challenge, in that instance, the title was important to the image.

Message edited by author 2015-06-18 08:00:47.
06/18/2015 11:47:48 AM · #24
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

... considered poor form. Most folks who keep a port up at 1x, 500 pixles, flickr, ect. will wait until voting is over to publish shots they submit here. But I know of no rule that requires it.


This.
06/18/2015 12:01:56 PM · #25
It seems to me that right now we have sort of a polite fiction of anonymity, and that it's always been that way. Certain styles are recognizable, certain locations are recognizable, certain models are recognizable, even certain methods of *titling* challenge entries provide clues to the photographer. If you've been around here long enough and if you're paying attention, it's easy to recognize a vaWendy, a gyaban, a samantha_T, a Judi, and I suppose a Bear_Music, amongst many others I could name. I'm sure you'd all agree that this is inevitable. I've been entering challenges for 10 years now, 1,310 of them so far, and I'd be surprised if people DIDN'T recognize a lot of my locations, let alone my craggy mug.

What bothers me is why people CARE... Do they think that I'm gaining an advantage by doing recognizable work? Let's assume for the moment that I *AM* getting that advantage. Let's look at the voter who says "Oh, Cool! It's a Bear! I'll give him a 9!" Why would they think that way? What do they GAIN by thinking that way? It's not as if I actually KNOW they're doing it and can reward them in some way. It may be that people think "OOOH! It's a Bear! It MUST be good!" and shower me with high scores, but to be honest, I'm not seeing a lot of ribbons lately so I don't think that's happening.

No, I think being recognized is more of a *liability*, that people are inclined cut recognizable photographers down a notch. This is just my suspicion, I have no proof of it.

But one thing's for sure: it can't be AVOIDED, whatever "it" is. When we have the same folks voting on the same folks over and over again, familiarity is GOING to creep in

So the question is, what (if anything_ can we (or do we want) to DO about it? Shall we have SC set up a pre-screening process where you send us your images and we either OK them or reject them on the basis of how "anonymous" we perceive them to be? Even if we DID take such a draconian step, it wouldn't solve the problem of people who take pictures that LOOK like somebody else's, would it?

A little more on the realm of possibility, what do you think would happen if we changed the rules and actually ATTRIBUTED all the pictures in the voting phase, so you knew whose image you were voting on?

Brainstorm that one, for a while, would you, folks? What do you think would happen then? Seriously...
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