DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Grassroots "Town Meeting" To Address Violence
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 23 of 23, (reverse)
AuthorThread
09/05/2015 06:45:40 AM · #1
This is a thread to discuss POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE ideas that some of us who actually believe in the goodness of the human animal and love their families and community.

I do *NOT* want to see this thread end up in Rant. I will ask SC to help keep it civil by whatever means available.

This is not about gun control, though the continuously frustrating, circular, and ultimately futile threads about same has sparked it.

I woulkd like to address at some point the failings in the system, and with people, that have exacerbated that problem, but to me that becomes a people issue, not a gun issue. That seems to me to be where that argument fades off........pretty much every time. When it's solely about the guns, nothing changes because neither side will give one iota.

One of the things that to me is apparent is that when two sides of an issue butt heads, the unwillingness to even discuss possible resolutions feeds the problem.

It is unquestionable that here in the US that we have violence issues. I've heard everything from influence in cartoons to selfishness, bad parenting, and all kinds of crazy ideas in between.

So.......I live in a small city right now in a growing and changing neighborhood, and I'd love to bring ideas and solutions to the social site where people constantly post wanting help with everything from pet control to doing something about trash being dfumped indiscriminately in alleys and by back fences.

One thing that seems to run throughout is that there is a certain percentage of the population that do whatever they please with zero regard for others.

These are the people that we have to deal with, yet how does one do this safely?

Anywho......thoughts and ideas appreciated.
09/05/2015 07:35:58 AM · #2
I believe I could use more specific clarification before I lend my opinions to this topic.

Who are you trying to engage in this discussion?

What are the issues important to you, and what specific questions do you have about violence that
prompted this initiative? What system are you referring to?

Where is this social site you mention? Where is the"town meeting", here on D.P.C. or in your city, on that social site?

When do you need our input?

How are you going to incorporate suggestions and opinions from us and to what end?

Why is this topic so important to you?

09/05/2015 01:58:18 PM · #3
Originally posted by NikonJeb:


So.......I live in a small city right now in a growing and changing neighborhood, and I'd love to bring ideas and solutions to the social site where people constantly post wanting help with everything from pet control to doing something about trash being dfumped indiscriminately in alleys and by back fences.


I like The Way to Happiness booklet in this context. I personally like the 21 precepts and I think handing the booklet to people is at least worth a try as a community project. It has been done with allegedly good success. The main advantage of the booklet in my eyes is that it is non-religious, and thus basically for everyone. Maybe you want to have a look at //www.thewaytohappiness.org/home.html for some information on what it's about.

It could be that I misunderstood your post, though, and thus my answer might not be really fitting to what you were looking for with your post. If so just ignore my answer.
09/05/2015 08:18:20 PM · #4
The funny and/or scary thing is that laws actually can change the culture and save lives. I've seen it in my lifetime with smoking.

Yes, the rights of cigarette smokers were violated. Laws against guns will violate rights and they will decrease violence.

What else will decrease violence? A better economy. We are animals, after all. The more resources we have, the more peaceful we are.
09/05/2015 08:24:50 PM · #5
I think the ultimate causes of violence are poverty and a lack of meaningful work, and the respect which accompanies it.

In the US, given the current trend toward a have/have-not society in which even relatively unskilled and meaningless work is performed by robots, I'm afraid that the conditions for fomenting violence -- either by desperate individuals or truly revolutionary -- are only increasing, and will continue to do so until personal and corporate greed are dethroned as our highest ideals.
09/05/2015 09:37:21 PM · #6
Actually I don't want to cause a riot ;)

Message edited by author 2015-09-05 21:53:54.
09/05/2015 10:02:29 PM · #7
Originally posted by GeneralE:

I think the ultimate causes of violence are poverty and a lack of meaningful work, and the respect which accompanies it.

In the US, given the current trend toward a have/have-not society in which even relatively unskilled and meaningless work is performed by robots, I'm afraid that the conditions for fomenting violence -- either by desperate individuals or truly revolutionary -- are only increasing, and will continue to do so until personal and corporate greed are dethroned as our highest ideals.


I want to understand.

You're saying that people are killing each other... that people are shooting police officers in the back... because... they are poor? Or that they don't have meaningful work? Or because corporations are profitable and then able to hire people to work for them?

Seems like if they were unhappy (or hungry) with the money and benefits they get from the government to help them while they aren't working... then... they'd steal food... not shoot someone.

Please explain why unemployment would lead to violence if you were without a job.

09/05/2015 11:23:52 PM · #8
Actually, police shootings, are overall on the decline and lower in this era, despite media sensationalism.

But you bring up a good point, as a cause of violence, or at least the escalation of it, and that is the militarization of police forces. No longer are they peace officers, serving the public, but rather, they treat our urban citizens like a soldier might treat the citizens of a middle eastern country we are occupying.

Perhaps losing the riot gear for routine traffic stops, and police getting much better training,non-lethal training, might improve urban violence. That and an increase in living wages, better schools, infrastructure rebuiliding of the scale we saw after the great depression, those would be a start.

If we dont talk causes and how to change them, its useless to simply just announce how bad, lazy, lawless, etc., a sample of the population might be...

Message edited by author 2015-09-05 23:24:13.
09/06/2015 10:24:48 AM · #9
What would you do if you were a police officer and people were trying to kill you, just because you are a police officer?

I'd put on as much protection as I could before I went out every day to protect the people I was hired to protect.

Also, I've been poor... with no idea where to get food to feed my four children for the next meal. Yet, not once did I think of harming someone (with a gun, without a gun, not even with my words...) because I was poor, did not have meaningful work, or respect from others.

People need to respect themselves before they will get respect.

In my opinion, children left to their own resources, who are bored, come up with more ideas that are against the rules than children who have organized play-time, or have a chore or project to do.

I think it follows that same path even when we're old.

I was in Belize last month (I'm not so poor now. *grin*) and the tour guide said, "In Belize, if someone doesn't have a job, he makes a job for himself. See that man there peeling grapefruits and selling them? He got a permit and started selling them. He has to go every week for a health exam in order to do it, but he does it. Belizians [??] like to work."

I think THERE is the problem with our once-great nation.

Americans are lazy. We don't want to work, we want to get everything for free. Then, we're bored, and looking for excitement. Some find it in alcohol, some in drugs, some in helping others, some in harming others.

That's my opinion.

09/06/2015 10:47:31 AM · #10
Totally agree, Lydia. I think there is a difference between being poor all your life and becoming poor due to circumstance.
09/06/2015 11:12:22 AM · #11
Originally posted by Lydia:


Americans are lazy. We don't want to work, we want to get everything for free. Then, we're bored, and looking for excitement. Some find it in alcohol, some in drugs, some in helping others, some in harming others.


Can't say that I agree with this rather all encompassing generalization.

I happen to personally know several people who work at 2 and 3 jobs in an effort to provide for their families. Drugs and alcohol you say, try looking at the well to do in NYC, LA and other areas of affluence. The big difference is that the law enforcement authorities usually are fixated and look solely at the street level... not where the real money is spent.

Excitement in harming others... if there truly is excitement in doing that, then that pleasure is almost exclusively reserved to the multi nationals, the industrial complex and those companies that siphon off of the system and send labour intensive jobs off-shore.

Yes there most defintely are problems, but what we need do is look at all of the problem and not strictly focus on the weakest part of our society.

Ray

That's my opinion.

Message edited by author 2015-09-08 10:17:06.
09/06/2015 11:17:50 AM · #12
Originally posted by RayEthier:



Yes there most defintely are problems, but what we need do is look at all of the problem and not strictly focus on the weakest part of our society.

Ray



Wouldn't you say that the people doing hate crimes and/or murders are the weakest part of our society?

I didn't suggest that poor folks were the weakest part... I was responding to this: "I think the ultimate causes of violence are poverty and a lack of meaningful work, and the respect which accompanies it."

Anyway, nothing will get solved here discussing this... even if we find the cause of all of this violence.

For that reason, I'm out. :D

09/06/2015 12:08:17 PM · #13
Originally posted by Lydia:

Seems like if they were unhappy (or hungry) with the money and benefits they get from the government to help them while they aren't working... then... they'd steal food... not shoot someone.

Please explain why unemployment would lead to violence if you were without a job.

Once you steal food (and get caught) you'll have an arrest record which will make it almost impossible to get a job (in this country). If you're bombarded with images which hold out great wealth to be the ultimate goal of life, and you're denied employment -- often for no reason other than the color of your skin -- you might turn to the last bastion of unregulated free enterprise in this country (the illegal drug trade). without access to the legal system, disputes are usually "solved" by violence. If you're poor and desperate you might have a psychological breakdown leading to domestic violence (please tell me you've never ever hit -- or wanted to hit -- someone; you might be unique in the world).

I think that it should be obvious that some people, when desperate for the means of survival, take desperate measures, it is less obvious why someone who should be in control (e.g. a police officer) would turn to gratuitous violence -- say in the case of the Texas pool party, or the Rodney King episode or the case where the guy was shot in the back while running away after a traffic stop. We now have a local case where three prison guards apparently beat a prisoner to death while in custody. How about you trying to explain that.
09/06/2015 12:45:51 PM · #14
The single most powerful force our society has at its disposal is the media. EVERYthing is influenced by the media. How we dress. Where we eat. The products we choose. The people we elect. The media has become a corrupt, destructive force, overreporting mayhem where there isn't any, ignoring positive events because they "don't sell". Broadcasting stories without fact checking, only to have it revealed they were way off target. And then no retractions or corrections.

The only way to get people on the same page is for the media to assist. But that is a very tall order, since it is in the media's best interest to have people at odds, since drama and conflict is their primary fuel supply.
09/06/2015 01:29:12 PM · #15
Originally posted by RayEthier:



Yes there most defintely are problems, but what we need do is look at all of the problem and not strictly focus on the weakest part of our society.

Ray



Originally posted by Lydia:

Wouldn't you say that the people doing hate crimes and/or murders are the weakest part of our society?

I didn't suggest that poor folks were the weakest part... I was responding to this: "I think the ultimate causes of violence are poverty and a lack of meaningful work, and the respect which accompanies it."

Anyway, nothing will get solved here discussing this... even if we find the cause of all of this violence.

For that reason, I'm out. :D

Wow...

I never had you figured as the jaded and cynical type.

Yes, quite often things *do* get solved at grass roots levels. It's called hard work and determination. Some of us live to better our lives by doing just that.

The neighborhood I live in right now was not so hot 25 years ago. Now it's become Harrisburg's own little "Greenwich Village". The place I bought was run down somewhat, and had no real future other than as a rental property. The two guys that I bought it from had that in mind. After paying to have A/C installed on the first floor, a new electrical service, and a new boiler, they realized that if they kapt paying people to work on it, they would be so upside down in the place that they'd be paying for it forever. They tried to sell it for over a year and had no luck. Vivi and I saw the potentiel in the place and realized that with sweat equity, it was doable.

And we haven't just fixed up a house. We opened a gallery on the first floor, and we get involved with local happenings as well as working with our neighbors to make this a better place to live.

One of the ways we did that was to hire one of the gypsy painters that wanders around town doing painting. This is Joe. I don't know his last name. I don't know where he lives though since he generally disappears during the winter, I do kind of wonder. He's very meticulous, reliable, and an all 'round nice guy.

           

He's also something of a pack rat and runs across old furniture items from time to time, some of which with minor repairs, have fit right in with the period of the buildings and neighborhood. Since he accumulates them through various jobs various places and delivers, he charges me a couple bucks, but every item is always on approval with no expectations or commitments. It's a true days of old type of relationship, and I endorse him whole-heartedly when one of the neighbors asks about that painter guy, Joe. That's how it happens.....people, one and two at a time, you get together with others, and work through the seemingly impossible tasks. Our neighborhood is looking and functioning more nicely every day. Because we work at it. And because we care and commit to it.

But nothing EVER gets done if you throw your hands up, say it's too much, and never even try.
09/06/2015 01:32:42 PM · #16
Originally posted by tanguera:

The single most powerful force our society has at its disposal is the media.

Nope.

The single most powerful force our society has is its people. And of those, it's the ones that roll up their sleeves and dig in, a little bit at a time and never give up that make things happen.
09/06/2015 01:35:45 PM · #17
Originally posted by Lydia:

Americans are lazy. We don't want to work, we want to get everything for free.

That's my opinion.

Just freakin' wow.....

How sad to be you.
09/06/2015 02:14:22 PM · #18
thank you Nikon Jeb and Joe the painter.
09/06/2015 02:17:11 PM · #19
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Lydia:

Americans are lazy. We don't want to work, we want to get everything for free.

That's my opinion.

Just freakin' wow.....

How sad to be you.


It's GREAT to be me! My husband and I have worked really hard (from nothing... several times) to be able to raise our children to provide for themselves, give to others, and not depend on anyone other than ourselves for our upkeep.

Sure, we all have to ask for help sometimes, but I'm a "life is what you make it" kinda girl. We've raised our children (and ourselves) to see if we can do it without asking for help. I love to help others. I give time, goods, and physical work regularly helping others get back on their feet.

I wasn't talking about EVERYONE in America being lazy, of course. That's just silly. SOMEBODY has to work. Those are the people who are holding up every American's freedoms.

The emphasis I placed on a word in this sentence was not clear. I meant "Anyway, nothing will get solved here discussing this..."

I'm not jaded or cynical. I have not just "thrown up" my hands.

I just realize that we will not convince each other of anything arguing/discussing it here on the threads (or most other places). We never do... no matter the topic... if the topic is "hot" and divided by life views where everyone is positive that they are right.

09/06/2015 02:22:35 PM · #20
The USA is a nation of individualists. We are also a nation of narcissists. We tolerate & even glorify narcissism. "Greed is good." Narcissists take everything, from the last slice of pizza to the last shrimp in the ocean, & in ways both big & small, give nothing. Though sometimes some narcissists have incredible flashes of brilliance, over time, they will hollow this country out. Then somebody will take the last photograph.

I have lived my whole life without ever personally witnessing anything more than the little, small, petty acts of greed & violence that your everyday narcissist perpetrates routinely. I've never seen the police do anything beyond the occasional traffic stop. I grew up with guns, I know how to shoot, but have never personally witnessed a gun used in an act of violence against another human. I saw a bloody knife lying in the parking lot at Wal-Mart once. Maybe I need to get out more...and yet...and yet

I suspect it's the little, small, petty acts of violence that count. If each individual is only always out for #1, then the community is endangered. If we weren't so heavily armed & so violent by nature, we would not still be here. It's a paradox.
09/06/2015 03:19:36 PM · #21
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by tanguera:

The single most powerful force our society has at its disposal is the media.

Nope.

The single most powerful force our society has is its people. And of those, it's the ones that roll up their sleeves and dig in, a little bit at a time and never give up that make things happen.


I meant a force for mass mobilization. Yes, individuals make up the grit and guts and engine, but for a MAJOR, NATIONAL sea change to happen, a critical mass must be reached, and that can only happen through the media. Then people like you would not be the exception, but the standard :)
09/06/2015 04:55:31 PM · #22
Originally posted by tanguera:

... for a MAJOR, NATIONAL sea change to happen, a critical mass must be reached, and that can only happen through the media. Then people like you would not be the exception, but the standard :)

I think the events of the "Arab Spring" showed that not only it is possible for the citizenry to bypass the "traditional media" but that this may not always be a good thing ... however I have no dispute with the idea that the "media" and (the corporate barons which control it) use it to influence our values and behaviors (also not always a good thing).
09/06/2015 05:30:40 PM · #23
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by tanguera:

... for a MAJOR, NATIONAL sea change to happen, a critical mass must be reached, and that can only happen through the media. Then people like you would not be the exception, but the standard :)

I think the events of the "Arab Spring" showed that not only it is possible for the citizenry to bypass the "traditional media" but that this may not always be a good thing ... however I have no dispute with the idea that the "media" and (the corporate barons which control it) use it to influence our values and behaviors (also not always a good thing).


I guess I should have clarified that by "media", I meant everything - from traditional to social media, and beyond
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 03/28/2024 08:40:35 AM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2024 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 03/28/2024 08:40:35 AM EDT.