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12/07/2015 03:34:23 PM · #26
Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by hahn23:


At DPC today, there is much less emphasis on good photography and more emphasis on "fixing it in photoshop". I believe that is partially the reason for the decline in votes, entries and comments. I have stopped recommending DPC to novices because it's no longer a great learning site for photography.


On what do you base this observation, Richard? We have had a slew of new members who have done nothing but express massive appreciation for what they are learning here. While it may no longer be a "great learning site" for people who have evolved into good - or even great - photographers, it remains, at its core, what it has always been. Some would argue that THAT is the problem.

We are a community of like-minded people who often have widely diverging goals for their photography. Many of them become professional in a genre that requires excellent photoshop skills. Like it or not, photoshop is an integral part of digital photography for some people. Do they not also deserve an opportunity to hone their skills?

Originally posted by hahn23:

I suppose the trend to more emphasis on Expert Editing will continue, regardless of whether it's in the best interests of the community.


What Christophe said. Perhaps you are referring to the loosening of the rules regarding overlays, and certain filters. These are all tools being used out there in the "real" world. Shouldn't any institution referring to itself as a place of "learning" keep up with the times?

A quick count of Expert editing challenges:
2006, 2
2007, 8
2009, 1
2010, 3
2011, 14
2012, 26
2013, 24
2014, 21
2015, 16 (so far)

Some reduction in the past year, but the overall trend towards the larger proportion of ExpertEditing challenges is still increasing.

I now use LightRoom CC 2015. It's a very useful postprocessing tool. I also use Photoshop CC 2015. Because of what I do for a living, I avoid creating elements of interest that did not exist in the scene. If i wanted to create a scene, I'd use a canvas, paintbrush and paint. My customers are very interested in knowing if my subjects and scenes are actually photographs.

I have seen DPC drift away from an emphasis on quality photography. Some members refuse to list their exif data, thereby denying the sharing of valuable learning information for novices.
12/07/2015 03:57:32 PM · #27
Originally posted by tanguera:

We are a community of like-minded people


h2 and I are both offended by that statement. Fortunately, there is still some cognitive diversity at this site.
12/07/2015 04:09:36 PM · #28
What is the big deal if there is one Expert Editing FS a month?! I really don't get the nay saying at all. How about we get rid of the Thursday challenge and replace with this new FS suggestion. When I first came to DPC, that Thursday challenge didn't exist.

I don't buy the "fixing it in photoshop" straightest from the camera myth. I started with film 35 years ago. I had my own darkroom. I did all kinds of stuff in that darkroom. I didn't simply develop my film, load the negative into a carrier, place piece of paper in the easel, make the exposure and throw it into some chemicals...and tada! I had TONS of options and choices to make...what kind of paper, what grade of paper, what developers, toners, dodging, burning, and we even had overlays...yes OVERLAYS/TEXUTRES we could sandwich in the carrier with the negative. Sometimes, I even used more than one negative! This was in a DARKROOM, not photoshop.

Tired of the purist bulls#*t. I like all kinds of photography. I would like to be able to enter something like this:



I did stuff like that in a darkroom. To to say it's not photographic is crap. Then there were others who did things like Christophe, in a darkroom.

There is room for all of us. We need to do something to retain some members and maybe even get some new ones. Photography is evolving whether we like it or not.

Message edited by author 2015-12-07 16:11:07.
12/07/2015 04:18:03 PM · #29
Originally posted by RKT:

What is the big deal if there is one Expert Editing FS a month?! I really don't get the nay saying at all. How about we get rid of the Thursday challenge and replace with this new FS suggestion. When I first came to DPC, that Thursday challenge didn't exist.

I don't buy the "fixing it in photoshop" straightest from the camera myth. I started with film 35 years ago. I had my own darkroom. I did all kinds of stuff in that darkroom. I didn't simply develop my film, load the negative into a carrier, place piece of paper in the easel, make the exposure and throw it into some chemicals...and tada! I had TONS of options and choices to make...what kind of paper, what grade of paper, what developers, toners, dodging, burning, and we even had overlays...yes OVERLAYS/TEXUTRES we could sandwich in the carrier with the negative. Sometimes, I even used more than one negative! This was in a DARKROOM, not photoshop.

Tired of the purist bulls#*t. I like all kinds of photography. I would like to be able to enter something like this:



Me too!

I did stuff like that in a darkroom. To to say it's not photographic is crap. Then there were others who did things like Christophe, in a darkroom.

There is room for all of us. We need to do something to retain some members and maybe even get some new ones. Photography is evolving whether we like it or not.
12/07/2015 07:24:08 PM · #30
Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by tanguera:

We are a community of like-minded people


h2 and I are both offended by that statement. Fortunately, there is still some cognitive diversity at this site.


I meant, we're all here due to photography - in all it's complicated and varied forms. Not that we think alike. God forbid!!!!
12/07/2015 07:42:03 PM · #31
Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by hahn23:


At DPC today, there is much less emphasis on good photography and more emphasis on "fixing it in photoshop". I believe that is partially the reason for the decline in votes, entries and comments. I have stopped recommending DPC to novices because it's no longer a great learning site for photography.


On what do you base this observation, Richard? We have had a slew of new members who have done nothing but express massive appreciation for what they are learning here. While it may no longer be a "great learning site" for people who have evolved into good - or even great - photographers, it remains, at its core, what it has always been. Some would argue that THAT is the problem.

We are a community of like-minded people who often have widely diverging goals for their photography. Many of them become professional in a genre that requires excellent photoshop skills. Like it or not, photoshop is an integral part of digital photography for some people. Do they not also deserve an opportunity to hone their skills?

Originally posted by hahn23:

I suppose the trend to more emphasis on Expert Editing will continue, regardless of whether it's in the best interests of the community.


What Christophe said. Perhaps you are referring to the loosening of the rules regarding overlays, and certain filters. These are all tools being used out there in the "real" world. Shouldn't any institution referring to itself as a place of "learning" keep up with the times?

A quick count of Expert editing challenges:
2006, 2
2007, 8
2009, 1
2010, 3
2011, 14
2012, 26
2013, 24
2014, 21
2015, 16 (so far)

Some reduction in the past year, but the overall trend towards the larger proportion of ExpertEditing challenges is still increasing.

I now use LightRoom CC 2015. It's a very useful postprocessing tool. I also use Photoshop CC 2015. Because of what I do for a living, I avoid creating elements of interest that did not exist in the scene. If i wanted to create a scene, I'd use a canvas, paintbrush and paint. My customers are very interested in knowing if my subjects and scenes are actually photographs.

I have seen DPC drift away from an emphasis on quality photography. Some members refuse to list their exif data, thereby denying the sharing of valuable learning information for novices.


And that works for you and your clients, and that is wonderful. A win-win for everyone. It's one of a myriad of techniques/genres/themes/topics in photography. Not any of which is better than/more authentic than/more photographic than.

"Photography" continues to evolve, from film to digital to...??? It can't be stopped. I don't think it should be. Should we all be interested in the "new"? Not my place to say. But I don't think anyone is in a position to say what is and isn't photography.

I also will observe that the amount of angst heaped upon "cartoon/airbursh paintings/etc." revolves almost exclusively around the work of 2-3 members. It must say something about the membership that such work consistently wins - that the vast majority appreciate the work, and consider it to be "photographic" enough.

2002 - 50 challenges
2003 - 120 challenges
2006 - 183 challenges
2014 - 175 challenges

I did not do all of them, but considering the increase in sheer number of challenges, it seems the percentage of them being Expert remains pretty consistent. In addition, your own numbers show a diminishing trend, not an increase.
12/07/2015 08:29:00 PM · #32
Originally posted by tanguera:

...Not any of which is better than/more authentic than/more photographic than.

...




It confuses the lions.
12/07/2015 08:33:23 PM · #33
Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by tanguera:

...Not any of which is better than/more authentic than/more photographic than.

...




It confuses the lions.


Ha! That's awesome. As a Leo, I sympathize ;)
12/07/2015 08:40:04 PM · #34
Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by tanguera:

...Not any of which is better than/more authentic than/more photographic than.

...




It confuses the lions.


I'm guessing this was captured October 31st?
12/07/2015 09:28:24 PM · #35
If a camera is involved somewhere in the creation of an image, that's photographic enough for me.

Message edited by author 2015-12-07 23:58:24.
12/08/2015 09:06:56 AM · #36
Originally posted by RKT:

What is the big deal if there is one Expert Editing FS a month?! I really don't get the nay saying at all. How about we get rid of the Thursday challenge and replace with this new FS suggestion. When I first came to DPC, that Thursday challenge didn't exist.

I don't buy the "fixing it in photoshop" straightest from the camera myth. I started with film 35 years ago. I had my own darkroom. I did all kinds of stuff in that darkroom. I didn't simply develop my film, load the negative into a carrier, place piece of paper in the easel, make the exposure and throw it into some chemicals...and tada! I had TONS of options and choices to make...what kind of paper, what grade of paper, what developers, toners, dodging, burning, and we even had overlays...yes OVERLAYS/TEXUTRES we could sandwich in the carrier with the negative. Sometimes, I even used more than one negative! This was in a DARKROOM, not photoshop.

Tired of the purist bulls#*t. I like all kinds of photography. I would like to be able to enter something like this:



I did stuff like that in a darkroom. To to say it's not photographic is crap. Then there were others who did things like Christophe, in a darkroom.

There is room for all of us. We need to do something to retain some members and maybe even get some new ones. Photography is evolving whether we like it or not.


Bravo!
12/08/2015 09:39:29 AM · #37
Originally posted by insteps:

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by tanguera:

...Not any of which is better than/more authentic than/more photographic than.

...




It confuses the lions.


I'm guessing this was captured October 31st?


This is an endangered, black and white, odd-toed ungulate, as seen on February 21, 1947 near Melbourne, Australia. Untouched color film with Polaroid Land Camera Model 95. f/45, 1/60s, ISO 16.
12/08/2015 09:49:12 AM · #38
Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by insteps:

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by tanguera:

...Not any of which is better than/more authentic than/more photographic than.

...




It confuses the lions.


I'm guessing this was captured October 31st?


This is an endangered, black and white, odd-toed ungulate, as seen on February 21, 1947 near Melbourne, Australia. Untouched color film with Polaroid Land Camera Model 95. f/45, 1/60s, ISO 16.


Amazing! Thanks for the education.
12/08/2015 01:15:37 PM · #39
Originally posted by hahn23:

This is an endangered, black and white, odd-toed ungulate, as seen on February 21, 1947 near Melbourne, Australia. Untouched color film with Polaroid Land Camera Model 95. f/45, 1/60s, ISO 16.

This is even more amazing since according to this Wikipedia article the Model 95 was first sold in 1948 ...
12/08/2015 01:23:40 PM · #40
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by hahn23:

This is an endangered, black and white, odd-toed ungulate, as seen on February 21, 1947 near Melbourne, Australia. Untouched color film with Polaroid Land Camera Model 95. f/45, 1/60s, ISO 16.

This is even more amazing since according to this Wikipedia article the Model 95 was first sold in 1948 ...

Oh, this is one of Land's early demonstration captures on the very day he announced the camera to the public.
12/08/2015 01:55:33 PM · #41
I like the idea of two Free Studies per month.
Perhaps announce our present 30-day Free Study - Advanced Editing at the beginning of the month
and a new 30-day Free Study - Expert Editing at the 15th of each month.
Then folks could enter each more easily and therefore not dilute the pool of entrants.
12/08/2015 04:05:47 PM · #42
Originally posted by sfalice:

I like the idea of two Free Studies per month.
Perhaps announce our present 30-day Free Study - Advanced Editing at the beginning of the month
and a new 30-day Free Study - Expert Editing at the 15th of each month.
Then folks could enter each more easily and therefore not dilute the pool of entrants.


I think that's a great idea...works better for those of us who vote also.
12/08/2015 04:20:07 PM · #43
I like the idea of just running the free study in expert.
It can't hurt to try and if you don't like editing in expert use advanced.
Imagine the bragging rights if you ribbon in an (expert) free study with an image edited under the advanced rule set. Ohhh my!!!
12/08/2015 04:34:36 PM · #44
Originally posted by nygold:

I like the idea of just running the free study in expert.
It can't hurt to try and if you don't like editing in expert use advanced.
Imagine the bragging rights if you ribbon in an (expert) free study with an image edited under the advanced rule set. Ohhh my!!!

Even if we DO run two free studies a month, one allowing expert editing, you'll be able to do that, and I imagine quite a few will try :-)

Message edited by author 2015-12-08 16:34:45.
12/08/2015 04:39:49 PM · #45
I like it. Now, how do we get more people to vote?! =)) Allow all users to vote?

Originally posted by sfalice:

I like the idea of two Free Studies per month.
Perhaps announce our present 30-day Free Study - Advanced Editing at the beginning of the month
and a new 30-day Free Study - Expert Editing at the 15th of each month.
Then folks could enter each more easily and therefore not dilute the pool of entrants.
12/08/2015 05:48:45 PM · #46
Originally posted by tate:

I like it. Now, how do we get more people to vote?! =)) Allow all users to vote?

Originally posted by sfalice:

I like the idea of two Free Studies per month.
Perhaps announce our present 30-day Free Study - Advanced Editing at the beginning of the month
and a new 30-day Free Study - Expert Editing at the 15th of each month.
Then folks could enter each more easily and therefore not dilute the pool of entrants.


No...I think only paying members should be able to enter and vote on the FS...hopefully FS's in the near future.

:-D
12/09/2015 10:10:46 AM · #47
Originally posted by RKT:

Originally posted by sfalice:

I like the idea of two Free Studies per month.
Perhaps announce our present 30-day Free Study - Advanced Editing at the beginning of the month
and a new 30-day Free Study - Expert Editing at the 15th of each month.
Then folks could enter each more easily and therefore not dilute the pool of entrants.


I think that's a great idea...works better for those of us who vote also.


Good idea
12/31/2015 09:01:53 AM · #48
Bumping...something new for the new year.
12/31/2015 09:19:19 AM · #49
Originally posted by RKT:

What is the big deal if there is one Expert Editing FS a month?! I really don't get the nay saying at all. How about we get rid of the Thursday challenge and replace with this new FS suggestion. When I first came to DPC, that Thursday challenge didn't exist.

I don't buy the "fixing it in photoshop" straightest from the camera myth. I started with film 35 years ago. I had my own darkroom. I did all kinds of stuff in that darkroom. I didn't simply develop my film, load the negative into a carrier, place piece of paper in the easel, make the exposure and throw it into some chemicals...and tada! I had TONS of options and choices to make...what kind of paper, what grade of paper, what developers, toners, dodging, burning, and we even had overlays...yes OVERLAYS/TEXUTRES we could sandwich in the carrier with the negative. Sometimes, I even used more than one negative! This was in a DARKROOM, not photoshop.

Tired of the purist bulls#*t. I like all kinds of photography. I would like to be able to enter something like this:



I did stuff like that in a darkroom. To to say it's not photographic is crap. Then there were others who did things like Christophe, in a darkroom.

There is room for all of us. We need to do something to retain some members and maybe even get some new ones. Photography is evolving whether we like it or not.


Sorry I missed this , you are of course correct .

I wonder why this cannot happen .................or perhaps it can ;)
12/31/2015 10:21:39 AM · #50
Fingers crossed Neil!
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