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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> panos - bogus single frame or real deal?
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01/25/2016 09:09:29 PM · #1
now that the PANO challenge is over ... how in hell did you judge them? how can you tell if it is a stitched multi-panel pano or just a nice pic with a close crop. I find this challenge to be totally bogus, thus am open to being told Im totally FOS. */*
thanks.
01/25/2016 09:32:24 PM · #2
Good point. I couldn't tell, just had to take it on trust.
01/25/2016 09:43:31 PM · #3
Meh. The description does NOT say it HAS to be stitched, just that the rules were relaxed to allow stitching.
I guess we'll never know.

Message edited by author 2016-01-25 22:43:47.
01/25/2016 09:50:06 PM · #4
I left mine uncropped so people could tell easily ...
01/25/2016 10:31:02 PM · #5
If the SC were in doubt it could request the original frames that were stitched. I doubt you would leave your pano uncropped in real life so it would probably suffer low votes because it wasn't finished. You are not FOS at all.
01/25/2016 11:16:06 PM · #6
Good question.

I had that question from a voter early on...

I would have voted as if it were legal, or... Have contacted SC and not voted.

I finished in fifth place (thank you voters) although my voters' average was less than my participants' average... A rarity.

One can never tell.

And... Therein... Lies the sport.

Ha!

01/26/2016 10:59:20 AM · #7
I think that this challenge was not properly defined. IMHO, it left contestants and voters producing and grading with different philosophies of what constitutes a panorama. I think if I had just simply cropped mine vertically, I would have done much better. But what a silly requirement that wasn't mentioned as far as I could see.

I also think it would have been better to require more than one (maybe more than two) images stitched together so that the voters could concentrate on the picture and not worry with wondering whether the photographer created a panorama. And then let the site admins disqualify the ones that were not real panoramas.
01/26/2016 11:16:52 AM · #8
Originally posted by WonderDude:

And then let the site admins disqualify the ones that were not real panoramas.

Nowhere in the challenge description is stitching required:

Originally posted by challenge description:

George Lepp has written a number of articles on the use of panoramic techniques in closeup work. Photograph a subject close up or macro, but make sure we have a wide, panoramic perspective of the subject/context/scene.

And even if we HAD mentioned stitching, challenge descriptions are not DQable definitions. We can put a "special rules" flag in for that purpose, but we rarely do. For what it's worth, all of the top 5 actually stitched in post.

As far as I'M concerned, personally, shooting extreme wide angle, for example, and working with the curvilinear distortion to straighten it up, is a "panoramic technique". And the end result is what matters, IMO; it's just fine to let the voters decide. They always do anyway.
01/26/2016 11:28:48 AM · #9
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

As far as I'M concerned, personally, shooting extreme wide angle, for example, and working with the curvilinear distortion to straighten it up, is a "panoramic technique". And the end result is what matters, IMO; it's just fine to let the voters decide. They always do anyway.


You had me up to this. But I'm done arguing for the day.

I have all sorts of issues with this challenge, from the title to the description to the results based on that description. It's the single worst challenge I've seen here in two years, and that includes other panorama challenges.

If I have anything to say on the back end of this it's that if we ever have a "panorama" challenge here again (and I hope and pray that may never be), please, please, PLEASE have the decency to put a strict definition around what technique MUST be used in the creation of the image - whether stitched (i.e. an actual "panorama" in the method of the photographer included in the description as a (failed) attempt to clarify what we were supposed to shoot), or single frame, faux panorama. It's a 1200px site, for godssake, rendering any panorama of any type a waste to look at. (yes, there were a handful of exceptions, but you know what I mean)
01/26/2016 11:37:35 AM · #10
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

As far as I'M concerned, personally, shooting extreme wide angle, for example, and working with the curvilinear distortion to straighten it up, is a "panoramic technique". And the end result is what matters, IMO; it's just fine to let the voters decide. They always do anyway.


You had me up to this. But I'm done arguing for the day.

I have all sorts of issues with this challenge, from the title to the description to the results based on that description. It's the single worst challenge I've seen here in two years, and that includes other panorama challenges.

If I have anything to say on the back end of this it's that if we ever have a "panorama" challenge here again (and I hope and pray that may never be), please, please, PLEASE have the decency to put a strict definition around what technique MUST be used in the creation of the image - whether stitched (i.e. an actual "panorama" in the method of the photographer included in the description as a (failed) attempt to clarify what we were supposed to shoot), or single frame, faux panorama. It's a 1200px site, for godssake, rendering any panorama of any type a waste to look at. (yes, there were a handful of exceptions, but you know what I mean)


+1
me too
01/26/2016 11:40:09 AM · #11
I'm curious whether any of the ones that have been validated were taken with the panoramic feature of a camera. It had been mentioned that if it had exif data, it would probably pass.
01/26/2016 11:46:37 AM · #12
To me, when I look at panoramas, I immediately notice one thing: I am seeing more of the scene than my eyes would normally see, without moving them.

So if I'm looking straight at something, my eyes only have X field of view. IF the photo shows more than X field of view, then it looks like a panoramic to me.

Yes, you can also get a wider field of view with wide angle lenses, but that starts to add distortion.

Basically, I want to be able to have my eyes follow the panoramic, seeing the scene as if I was standing there and moving my head (side to side or up/down).

I'm sure this post will be picked apart, but this is how I voted/commented.
01/26/2016 11:47:28 AM · #13
Originally posted by vawendy:

I'm curious whether any of the ones that have been validated were taken with the panoramic feature of a camera. It had been mentioned that if it had exif data, it would probably pass.


If I remember correctly, I think one of the contestants panoed theirs using an iPhone. Can't remember which one. My camera will in fact allow me to pano and retain the exif data. But I found that taking my time and using Elements yields a better result in the end.
01/26/2016 12:06:45 PM · #14
Originally posted by giantmike:

To me, when I look at panoramas, I immediately notice one thing: I am seeing more of the scene than my eyes would normally see, without moving them.

So if I'm looking straight at something, my eyes only have X field of view. IF the photo shows more than X field of view, then it looks like a panoramic to me.

Yes, you can also get a wider field of view with wide angle lenses, but that starts to add distortion.

Basically, I want to be able to have my eyes follow the panoramic, seeing the scene as if I was standing there and moving my head (side to side or up/down).

I'm sure this post will be picked apart, but this is how I voted/commented.


I'm not here to bury you, because I get what you mean. But I believe that it's impossible to judge at 1200px on the long end. Add to it the idea of a "Close Panorama" and you're left with the question of the viewers perspective - just how "close" were they. If I'm 2 inches from something then your rules apply when the final result shows something 12 inches long, but if I'm taking it from a foot away it's blasted ordinary. I would also argue that using the idea of your field of vision is invalid because, well, most people have some level of peripheral vision in the neighborhood of 130-140 degrees, even if your normal area of focus is about equivalent to 50mm. With all that considered, there's no panorama that can be posted here showing a field of view less than the average person's normal peripheral vision that cannot be replicated by a wide angle.

Now, if you want to do 360 degree panos, go for it. But they're gonna be awful thin.
01/26/2016 01:18:19 PM · #15
Just for fun, here's over 120 degrees in a single shot. Notice that the straight lines are, in fact, still straight.

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1068276.jpg
01/26/2016 01:35:06 PM · #16
My very personal definition of pano requires more than one shot and it's dictated/relative to the lens I'm using.

If I'm shooting with a fisheye or ultra-wide angle lens and I get almost 180 degree view in one shot, while it's a panoramic view, I don't consider it a pano in terms of technique. Now, if I'm shooting with a "normal" lens and I can't fit the whole scene in one single shot, forcing me to take more than one and then stitch them together to obtain the final image, that's a pano for me.
01/26/2016 02:13:20 PM · #17
Originally posted by giantmike:

To me, when I look at panoramas, I immediately notice one thing: I am seeing more of the scene than my eyes would normally see, without moving them.
. . .


IMO it was the whole macro thing that confused this issue the most. Look at this, for example: Lepp butterfly macro panorama

Certainly not "more of the scene than my eyes would normally see without moving them" . . . though far more than MINE would see in terms of detail. Now I know the technique used here is more focus stack than panorama, but right under the image it says "a panorama composite of . . . "

Message edited by author 2016-01-26 14:13:40.
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