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08/22/2017 02:23:44 AM · #1
I believe(d) that the monthly Extended Editing Challenges was something to show one's editing skills.
When looking at the entries and the results I feel very disappointed. There are other challenges to enter these kind of images. OF course we can enter even a minimal edit picture in an expert but... the purpose of the ExFS is becoming meaningless that way.
Next time I'll vote accordingly the editing skills applied.
08/22/2017 04:12:25 AM · #2
Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:


Next time I'll vote accordingly the editing skills applied.

I've got a real problem with that comment as you cannot know what editing skills were applied. Sure, the really obvious photoshop creations that are clearly expert editing stand out, but there are also many very subtle uses of expert editing that are not obvious. Those are the ones, in my opinion, that show the real skill of the expert rule set.
08/22/2017 05:45:56 AM · #3
Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

... Next time I'll vote accordingly the editing skills applied.

I always do. Perhaps not in the vein you mean. :-) Actually, I'm starting to like some of the 'painterly' effects that show up in these.

Certainly a free-for-all ... anything goes.
08/22/2017 10:57:39 AM · #4
This photo of mine could seem like a photo with only standard editing, while actually it's composed of 4 different photos:

1. The clouds
2. The Pyramid
3. The camel and the camel guy
4. The yellow flower

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1179456.jpg
08/22/2017 11:51:36 AM · #5
Originally posted by Aliaa:

This photo of mine could seem like a photo with only standard editing, while actually it's composed of 4 different photos:

1. The clouds
2. The Pyramid
3. The camel and the camel guy
4. The yellow flower

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1179456.jpg

I want a lens that can capture that DOF. LOL
08/22/2017 02:27:39 PM · #6
Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

I believe(d) that the monthly Extended Editing Challenges was something to show one's editing skills.
When looking at the entries and the results I feel very disappointed. There are other challenges to enter these kind of images. OF course we can enter even a minimal edit picture in an expert but... the purpose of the ExFS is becoming meaningless that way.
Next time I'll vote accordingly the editing skills applied.


Just keep in mind that something as simple as replacing the face from one take onto the body of another take would be considered "expert" and would be imperceptible to the viewer. While "standard" editing now allows a lot more leeway, there is still a lot that is not allowed.

Or edited to look realistic like this one of mine, that most people thought was a single capture

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1107101.jpg
08/22/2017 03:41:23 PM · #7
Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

I believe(d) that the monthly Extended Editing Challenges was something to show one's editing skills.
When looking at the entries and the results I feel very disappointed. There are other challenges to enter these kind of images. OF course we can enter even a minimal edit picture in an expert but... the purpose of the ExFS is becoming meaningless that way.
Next time I'll vote accordingly the editing skills applied.

Do we judge the image or do we judge the used editing technique? I think it should be the first. This is a Free Study and extended editing is the technique that is allowed to use; it's only a tool, nothing more. And as others said, how do you know which technique is used, many times that's not clear at all.
08/22/2017 04:57:22 PM · #8
Originally posted by salmiakki:

. . . there are also many very subtle uses of expert editing that are not obvious. Those are the ones, in my opinion, that show the real skill of the expert rule set.


++
08/22/2017 05:36:06 PM · #9
I remember back when "Expert Editing" was first being proposed as a concept for DPC. At the time we had a number of portrait photographers who felt it was only reasonable that under advanced editing they be allowed to composite elements of the face, say, from several captures (the shot with the best smile had a winking eye, whatever), or drop in a face from another shot in a great group photo where ONE of the group is sneezing at the wrong time... The idea, originally, was to be able to make use of the tools at our disposal.

The "purists" weren't in favor of this because DPC is a "photography site", not a "photoshop site". And so the arguments raged, with much mention made of the "slippery slope" we might be heading down...

Since "Expert" editing (now "Extended") was formalized, we've seen a significant swing to the point where if you don't create all-out fantasias a la Gyaban or SamanthaT you are fighting an uphill battle on the way to the podium. And for a while this was a voting issue that disturbed a lot of us, because the argument can be made that the "best" expert editing might arguably look like no editing at all. Aliaa and Tanguera are illustrating that for us right now :-)

I really wish it could be emphasized that we shouldn't be voting "Extended" challenges any differently than any other challenge: look at the topic, look at the images, pick the ones that work best for you. Voting an image "down" because it doesn't "look expert edited" is as bad as voting an image down because it looks illegally processed. At least IMO...
08/22/2017 06:10:14 PM · #10
Thank you 30861.gif Bear_Music and everyone else who responded in this thread. DPC community needs to be encouraging people to vote and comment with their hearts on every challenge rather than demonish those who do.

For what it's worth... my average voting score given on extended this month and the sci/fi coming up were both significantly higher than usual. So thank you to all who entered.

Message edited by author 2017-08-22 18:11:02.
08/22/2017 11:13:47 PM · #11
Originally posted by PennyStreet:

Thank you 30861.gif Bear_Music and everyone else who responded in this thread. DPC community needs to be encouraging people to vote and comment with their hearts on every challenge rather than demonish those who do.

For what it's worth... my average voting score given on extended this month and the sci/fi coming up were both significantly higher than usual. So thank you to all who entered.


I want to thank PennyStreet and Bear_Music and everyone who takes time to vote and comment. I try really hard to be positive with my comments. I may not point out things that are't to my liking but I do try to convey how a photo makes me feel, there are plenty who like to point out the technical flaws.
08/22/2017 11:24:43 PM · #12
Originally posted by Cyrilda:

I try really hard to be positive with my comments. I may not point out things that are't to my liking but I do try to convey how a photo makes me feel, there are plenty who like to point out the technical flaws.


I really LOVE your wonderful comments!

I would also love your helpful critique.

I imagine... with your loving spirit that your helpful suggestions would be very lovingly given and I could learn from them.

I'd much rather have a comment telling me what they would like to see better than a glowing report on my less than wonderful image.

I get the "oh my WORD... you're AMAZING! This photo is phenomenal!" from my family and friends already. Ha!

I want the truth... so I came here where people will tell it to me.

Tell the truth, sweet friend...

And everyone else, PLEASE!

I'd love to know what you don't like about my image... in your comments.

Grow me.

Please.

08/22/2017 11:43:19 PM · #13
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I remember back when... The "purists" weren't in favor of this because DPC is a "photography site", not a "photoshop site". And so the arguments raged...

The purist wars have raged since the days of old. :)
Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_352586.jpg

I agree with Bear that the photo should be judged on it's merits in relation to the topic, HOWEVER it is very difficult to not be impressed or annoyed at the skills we know (or assume) that it took to create the final image. This goes for Standard and Extended. Minimal takes no editing skill at all and should be cast into the lake of fire. :P

FWIW, I do like the challenges and rules the way they are setup now, more than they were in the past. Voters (and non-voters) are really the only thing that grate on me these days, but I have no feeling left in my tongue, so I'll just continue to bite it. :D
08/22/2017 11:49:01 PM · #14


I'd love to know what you don't like about my image... in your comments.

Grow me.

Please. [/quote]

I will do my best.
08/23/2017 03:22:35 AM · #15
There is some interesting thought in this thread... Indeed, perhaps the "best" editing looks like no editing at all (a bit like they say make-up should be).

It almost suggests that if you truly wanted a challenge where the aim was to rate based on editing capability you would need to submit both "before" and "after" images. That could be fun - but I can see that requires a significant redesign of the site unless the submitter is forced to merge them together into a single image for submission (that could be a good challenge once in a while).

Without the before and after I tend to agree though that you can't really score the "editing" in isolation and have to score the overall image produced. I don't believe the intent of these "extended" challenges was to be an editing battle - but rather to remove what used to be really restrictive rules (no spot editing, no cloning touch-ups, no text, etc.) which seem to be largely relaxed these days anyway.
09/05/2017 10:13:14 AM · #16
Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

I believe(d) that the monthly Extended Editing Challenges was something to show one's editing skills.
When looking at the entries and the results I feel very disappointed. There are other challenges to enter these kind of images. OF course we can enter even a minimal edit picture in an expert but... the purpose of the ExFS is becoming meaningless that way.
Next time I'll vote accordingly the editing skills applied.


I'm with you on this Georges. One month in the extended, people want the photos to look like a minimal edit, next month people like what ever goes then the next month bitching about using your editing skills. Which is it? Someone needs to make it clear what extended edit is. I know a number of years back it was called expert but now it's called extended edit so which is it? I think this needs to be addressed. My guess is that most of the ones that used the Expert are confused with Extended. My head is spinning when it's time for Extended edit.
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