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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> strobes, outdoor light and syncing
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09/03/2017 01:32:47 PM · #1
Ok -- trying to wrap my head around something else.

At some point, either DPC or I am going to give up on me.

This time it's outdoor lighting.

In about 2 hours I'm going to be shooting in full sunlight and I had the brilliant idea of bringing my Einstein. That's why I got it -- to have something stronger than the alienbees to play with outside. I just haven't really done it yet.

I've been trying to do the research. It sounds like the sony a6500 has a synch speed of 1/160.

I thought I could use the einstein outdoors in high speed situations, but I'm not figuring it out. It seemed like I could "hypersync" since the einstein can actually have a flash duration of 1/1700sec, but how do I tell the camera to adjust? When I set the shutter speed to anything faster than 1/200, I'm getting the black curtain.

It looks like if I had spent the money on the pocketwizards instead of Paul C Buff's cybercommand kit, that they have a way to do this. But they were and still are very pricey. :(

Any ideas?

thanks!
09/03/2017 07:44:19 PM · #2
Originally posted by vawendy:

Ok -- trying to wrap my head around something else.

At some point, either DPC or I am going to give up on me.

This time it's outdoor lighting.

In about 2 hours I'm going to be shooting in full sunlight and I had the brilliant idea of bringing my Einstein. That's why I got it -- to have something stronger than the alienbees to play with outside. I just haven't really done it yet.

I've been trying to do the research. It sounds like the sony a6500 has a synch speed of 1/160.

I thought I could use the einstein outdoors in high speed situations, but I'm not figuring it out. It seemed like I could "hypersync" since the einstein can actually have a flash duration of 1/1700sec, but how do I tell the camera to adjust? When I set the shutter speed to anything faster than 1/200, I'm getting the black curtain.

It looks like if I had spent the money on the pocketwizards instead of Paul C Buff's cybercommand kit, that they have a way to do this. But they were and still are very pricey. :(

Any ideas?

thanks!

I would be teptd to use them in the same way as with on camera flash , set them 1 stop less than your camera meters ie camera @ f11 Flash @ F8 you only need to fill the shadows .
09/03/2017 08:34:32 PM · #3
Originally posted by kiwinick:

Originally posted by vawendy:

Ok -- trying to wrap my head around something else.

At some point, either DPC or I am going to give up on me.

This time it's outdoor lighting.

In about 2 hours I'm going to be shooting in full sunlight and I had the brilliant idea of bringing my Einstein. That's why I got it -- to have something stronger than the alienbees to play with outside. I just haven't really done it yet.

I've been trying to do the research. It sounds like the sony a6500 has a synch speed of 1/160.

I thought I could use the einstein outdoors in high speed situations, but I'm not figuring it out. It seemed like I could "hypersync" since the einstein can actually have a flash duration of 1/1700sec, but how do I tell the camera to adjust? When I set the shutter speed to anything faster than 1/200, I'm getting the black curtain.

It looks like if I had spent the money on the pocketwizards instead of Paul C Buff's cybercommand kit, that they have a way to do this. But they were and still are very pricey. :(

Any ideas?

thanks!

I would be teptd to use them in the same way as with on camera flash , set them 1 stop less than your camera meters ie camera @ f11 Flash @ F8 you only need to fill the shadows .


But when I was shooting outside, the camera was metering at around 1/1250, and it can't sync that fast.
09/03/2017 09:54:03 PM · #4
You have to use MANUAL mode and control all aspects of the photo ISO, SS, and F stop when using strobes outside. Your camera will only sync at what speed it says, no matter what your strobes flash duration is(this is not the same as sync speed)

I have Pocketwizards, and I still have to obey my Cameras sync speed.

09/03/2017 10:22:27 PM · #5
Originally posted by MattO:

You have to use MANUAL mode and control all aspects of the photo ISO, SS, and F stop when using strobes outside. Your camera will only sync at what speed it says, no matter what your strobes flash duration is(this is not the same as sync speed)

I have Pocketwizards, and I still have to obey my Cameras sync speed.


I'm using manual. I set the ISO to 100. In order to have the background not blown, my shutter needed to be faster than the sync speed. So in that case, I just can't use my strobe? My flash has a high sync setting. It sounds like I have to revert to flash instead of strobe?
09/04/2017 12:04:40 AM · #6
Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by MattO:

You have to use MANUAL mode and control all aspects of the photo ISO, SS, and F stop when using strobes outside. Your camera will only sync at what speed it says, no matter what your strobes flash duration is(this is not the same as sync speed)

I have Pocketwizards, and I still have to obey my Cameras sync speed.


I'm using manual. I set the ISO to 100. In order to have the background not blown, my shutter needed to be faster than the sync speed. So in that case, I just can't use my strobe? My flash has a high sync setting. It sounds like I have to revert to flash instead of strobe?


You have to over power the sun. Stop down on your lens(way down if needed) to expose your background, then ramp up the light on your subject until you get just what you need. Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1137225.jpg
09/04/2017 09:43:06 AM · #7
Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by MattO:

You have to use MANUAL mode and control all aspects of the photo ISO, SS, and F stop when using strobes outside. Your camera will only sync at what speed it says, no matter what your strobes flash duration is(this is not the same as sync speed)

I have Pocketwizards, and I still have to obey my Cameras sync speed.


I'm using manual. I set the ISO to 100. In order to have the background not blown, my shutter needed to be faster than the sync speed. So in that case, I just can't use my strobe? My flash has a high sync setting. It sounds like I have to revert to flash instead of strobe?


You have to over power the sun. Stop down on your lens(way down if needed) to expose your background, then ramp up the light on your subject until you get just what you need. Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1137225.jpg


I'm going to give it another shot soon. I tried yesterday and was getting bizarre results. I could either have the strobe right or the background right but not both. I tried adjusting the light, tried changing the aperture and shutter in all directions, but it didn't really seem to make a difference. It was like I was flipping a switch between foreground and background lighting. The problem was that the background was just too bright. It was about 4 in the afternoon and the way I had to shoot had the sun above and behind and I couldn't get it to meter below my sync speed even with the ISO at 100.

I've read that some people use a ND filter to fix the problem.
09/04/2017 01:43:13 PM · #8
DO you realize that a ND filter also lowers the effective power of your strobe? I'm not familiar with your light, however I have no issue overpowering the sun even in broad day light with my AB800's and syncing at 1/200 or 1/250.
09/04/2017 02:23:04 PM · #9
Originally posted by MattO:

DO you realize that a ND filter also lowers the effective power of your strobe? I'm not familiar with your light, however I have no issue overpowering the sun even in broad day light with my AB800's and syncing at 1/200 or 1/250.


Really... Hmmm... I'll have to go try it again. I was probably too intent on getting the shot. This time I'll take a notebook with me.

How close do you have to have your 800s if the sun is in the shot? (approx how many feet/yards/inches/mm?)

Message edited by author 2017-09-04 14:27:02.
09/04/2017 02:27:42 PM · #10
Do you ever need to add multiple lights to do it? Or just one.
09/04/2017 07:34:28 PM · #11
Originally posted by vawendy:

Do you ever need to add multiple lights to do it? Or just one.


I have 4, I also have PCB battery packs. I use what I need to get what I need. But I can overpower the sun with one most times, placement is key, also pay attention to your modifier. Some will kill more light than others.
09/05/2017 06:31:04 AM · #12
I would go about it this way:

Set the exposure to 1/160 (or whatever the sync speed of your camera).

Set f stop and iso to get the correct exposure of the background.

Then add the light so your foreground subject is exposed right. You adjust the exposure of the foreground via the settings at your Einstein, not via the settings of your camera, as that would change the exposure of the background as well.

There are studio strobes that claim they can do high speed sync like the Nikon/Canon/Whatever strobes, but the Einstein does not seem to be able to do that according to what I saw on the webpage your link points to.
09/05/2017 09:41:52 AM · #13
That's what I was doing. When I was at 1/160, the background was all right, but I couldn't seem to get enough strobe output. It was all the way up, and I didn't modify it. I didn't bring it in really close, though, and I need to try that. All the videos I watched seemed to have this a decent amount of space away. I didn't want the light in the frame, so I composed it just out of the frame.

When I opened the aperture, I could get more than enough light, but it also blew my background.

My lack of models is making this difficult. I needed to do this BEFORE both my kids were out of the house! :(

Eye surgery tomorrow. Hopefully that won't be a big issue and I can play around this weekend with moving the light closer in. I kept going back to "the shutter controls ambient and the aperture controls flash". Which is true to a limited extent outside. Shutter controls ambient and aperture controls ambient & flash seems to be more the case.
09/05/2017 03:11:44 PM · #14
If you manage to halve the distance of the strobe to your subject it gives you 4 times the intensity of the light (but also a quarter of the lighted area). Your other option if your strobe is at its limit is to add another one (or more than one).

All the best for your surgery! Get well soon!
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