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10/04/2017 01:54:46 PM · #51
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

It seems like the opinion of voting on a mobile platform is split.

I don't know about that. I didn't survey the thread or do a poll, but for the record, I'm with Jeb on the voting issue. Aside from that, there are some conveniences that a mobile version can bring.
10/04/2017 02:07:46 PM · #52
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

It seems like the opinion of voting on a mobile platform is split.

I don't know about that. I didn't survey the thread or do a poll, but for the record, I'm with Jeb on the voting issue. Aside from that, there are some conveniences that a mobile version can bring.


I suppose "split" was a bad description of what I meant... I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are basically 2 sides of the argument to voting on mobile.

Art, would you agree that giving an incentive to voting on a computer screen but allowing someone to vote on a mobile device is a good thing? Like I said, I don't know if the numbers make sense to my idea but the idea as a whole seems like it would push voting overall and give more weight to those using a bigger screen.
10/04/2017 02:46:37 PM · #53
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

... would you agree that giving an incentive to voting on a computer screen but allowing someone to vote on a mobile device is a good thing? Like I said, I don't know if the numbers make sense to my idea but the idea as a whole seems like it would push voting overall and give more weight to those using a bigger screen.

Your suggestion might have some theoretical merit, but is far too complex to be practical here -- remember it would involve significant coding of the DPC site itself. Not to mention the problem of developing an algorithm which would accomplish what your arbitrarily-suggested numbers are unlikely to do, even if the site incorporated the code ...

Message edited by author 2017-10-04 14:46:58.
10/04/2017 03:49:14 PM · #54
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

Art, would you agree that giving an incentive to voting on a computer screen but allowing someone to vote on a mobile device is a good thing?

No, I don't agree. I've looked at photos on the phone that looked really good, but when viewing on the computer screen, I can find lots of issues I hadn't seen. Also unable to see a ton of detail on the phone that would contribute to a higher vote. Again, I'm with Jeb on this issue (might be a first) - I'd rather have fewer votes than allow effectively blind voting. I'm only referring to MOBILE phones, not necessarily large tablets - those might be ok.

All that said, there's nothing stopping anyone from phone voting. I thought there was some code that prevented it, but it's not working on my android.
10/04/2017 03:52:50 PM · #55
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

All that said, there's nothing stopping anyone from phone voting. I thought there was some code that prevented it, but it's not working on my android.

That's the inconsistency on this topic. On iPhones (and my old Windows phone) there is no possibility of voting from the mobile, and when I tested the mobile version in this thread I wasn't able to vote from it either. I think this is something that should be addressed. And I am in the same corner as you, I don't think voting from the phone should be allowed.
10/04/2017 03:54:36 PM · #56
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

... would you agree that giving an incentive to voting on a computer screen but allowing someone to vote on a mobile device is a good thing? Like I said, I don't know if the numbers make sense to my idea but the idea as a whole seems like it would push voting overall and give more weight to those using a bigger screen.

Your suggestion might have some theoretical merit, but is far too complex to be practical here -- remember it would involve significant coding of the DPC site itself. Not to mention the problem of developing an algorithm which would accomplish what your arbitrarily-suggested numbers are unlikely to do, even if the site incorporated the code ...


I understand that it's a lot of coding. I sure as hell wouldn't want to figure out a way to make it work like this. Lol. That said though, are you saying it's far too complex given the number of people currently voting? Or does it not work due to an algorithm that just won't work...? Because if it's because of a number of people voting, I can imagine the site growing at a fairly high rate once we grasp the "instant gratification" crowd.

I'm curious if there is a reason why this wouldn't work other than the amount of coding involved... Because if it's only coding you're worried about, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if people are creating mobile versions of the site for free for their own personal gain it wouldn't be hard to find someone who's willing to make this code work for a small chunk of change.

Oh, and of course Langdon would have to show up and approve it (which is a completely different argument altogether).
10/04/2017 05:27:54 PM · #57
Well, firstly, I don't really agree with your premise that somehow "discounting" votes made from certain devices compared to those made from traditional monitors would somehow yield a "fair" vote, which would yield the same result as if everyone voted from monitors. More people voting if phone-voting was available is another untested assumption.

However, even accepting those assumptions, developing an algorithm which would make that calculation seems like you're getting into AI -- do you discount a vote from a Samsung Android device by 63% but one from an iPhone 6 by only 57%? Etc.....

I don't think adjusting people's votes is a good way to go, even if it was possible from a coding standpoint.
10/04/2017 05:34:04 PM · #58
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

I can imagine the site growing at a fairly high rate once we grasp the "instant gratification" crowd.

Not trying to be a snob, but do we really want them???

The one thing that I've always appreciated about this site is that you don't get pats on the back for showing up and shooting. You get intelligent, honest, generally articulate and insightful feedback.

You will *NOT* get that from the "IG" crowd. That's what FaceBook, Instagram, and Twitter are all about.

I see people oohing and ahing over the worst crap in the world every single day, and the IG crowd puts a filter on a snapshot and they think they're the new Ansel Adams.

No. I'll work at something, put something I feel is pretty decent together, post it here asking for CC, and I get it. Brutal, honest, and intelligent. I never want to lose that.
10/04/2017 10:28:22 PM · #59
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I never want to lose that.


My fear with it is that you'll lose the site altogether if we don't move towards this direction.

ETA - Or another direction I should say... Statistically, this site is going downhill...

Message edited by author 2017-10-04 22:29:24.
10/04/2017 11:01:55 PM · #60
If the site is so horrible, what do you make of the fact that we seem to have about one "former user" a week returning to participate at some level. "New" doesn't always mean "improved."
10/05/2017 02:38:23 AM · #61
Five out of six of my last entries were edited on a phone and a few of them were taken with one, i believe we should be able to vote on a phone. DPC will not survive if it doesn't go with the flow.
10/05/2017 03:20:09 AM · #62
I definitely like the 'lite' version for checking on scores/updates but i'm not sure I'd like to vote using it, as Art said, images tend to look great on a mobile device then when viewed on a 'decent' monitor you can see the true details or the true nightmares of the photo. but, for checking in on scores it is very handy to access (and see) using the lite version on my mobile device. When I vote, I use my Mac.
10/05/2017 05:19:43 AM · #63
I also like the idea of a responsive website that displays nicely on a smaller screen but like others I would not be keen on voters voting on a small screen.

Photos often look really great on the phone but when viewed on a larger screen look terrible. Occasionally it can happen the other way around.

I guess if the world was moving in the direction where photography was primarily a media that is being viewed on a phone then it would make perfect sense to allow voters to vote on a phone but I doubt this to be the case and suspect people view their photos on a wide variety of devices including massive LCD TV screens these days.

Voting on an iPad in my opinion is fine and offers the convenience of voting away from the desk but with still a reasonable size screen.

10/05/2017 05:24:11 AM · #64
Originally posted by P-A-U-L:

Voting on an iPad in my opinion is fine and offers the convenience of voting away from the desk but with still a reasonable size screen.

And it gives the possibility to enlarge the image so you can have a closer look at the details, something I'm not able to do on my normal computer screen.
10/05/2017 05:30:24 AM · #65
ipad and tablet are different, i was mainly referring to mobile phones :) maybe i could use a pad to vote, dont know, dont own one.
10/05/2017 08:29:15 AM · #66
Originally posted by GeneralE:

If the site is so horrible, what do you make of the fact that we seem to have about one "former user" a week returning to participate at some level. "New" doesn't always mean "improved."


Two things... One, if you honestly think I believe the site is "horrible" then you're not exactly the smartest person in the world... This site has been my number one go to site every time I open a browser. Two, I'm not saying I'm correct with voting with mobile being the better option... I'm simply saying that if my opinion is correct, we won't have a website much long to call home... I just wanted to talk about the issue so that we can keep the site alive long enough for me to enjoy it with my kids (if I ever have any)...

And if we want to talk statistics we can...

Number of entries per challenge now vs 5 years ago vs 10 years ago...
Number of votes per challenge now vs 5 years ago vs 10 years ago...
Number of forum posts per hour now vs 5 years ago vs 10 years ago...

Activity is what keeps this place alive and don't get me wrong, I'll try to be as active as I can for as long as I can regardless if we head to mobile or not, just the same as you... Which is why this place has lasted as long as it has... But I have a hunch that you and I are the exception to the rule given the statistics of how the site has been doing the last 10 years...

Again, I might be completely wrong with this but the lack of activity is hard to ignore.

10/05/2017 09:09:25 AM · #67
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

If the site is so horrible, what do you make of the fact that we seem to have about one "former user" a week returning to participate at some level. "New" doesn't always mean "improved."


Two things... One, if you honestly think I believe the site is "horrible" then you're not exactly the smartest person in the world...

Not dumb, just occasionally hyperbolic ... I'm not opposed to improved mobile functionality, I just don't think we should let people vote on a tiny image -- we don't let desktop users vote from the thumbnails page either.
10/05/2017 09:16:47 AM · #68
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

If the site is so horrible, what do you make of the fact that we seem to have about one "former user" a week returning to participate at some level. "New" doesn't always mean "improved."


Two things... One, if you honestly think I believe the site is "horrible" then you're not exactly the smartest person in the world...

Not dumb, just occasionally hyperbolic ... I'm not opposed to improved mobile functionality, I just don't think we should let people vote on a tiny image -- we don't let desktop users vote from the thumbnails page either.


I'm okay with a compromise on this... How about only the open challenges can be voted on by mobile? Challenges for members can only be voted on by computers. This would allow more people to join and be active and also give a bit of a "oooo, aaahh..." factor to paying members? Again these ideas are just running through my head so they may not work... Just tossing in ideas.
10/05/2017 09:35:20 AM · #69
Guys thanks for the feedback and the appreciations :)

about the image size, unfortunately, those are the image sizes provided by dpchallenge. I really would like to make it bigger, but since I've not access to the original site code, I can just develop mine downloading (real time) stuff from the standard site. I asked langdon if there are some other picture formats available, but he told me just the small small we see here in the home are available (and the big one of course). Yes I could download all the pic in 1200px size and then resize it in a better format, but this would cause an home page download of some MB (instead of few kilobites of now), I guess it would consume a lot of mobile data and would be a nonsense for a mobile site :)

About the fact you seeing one picture at time, actually it should be a slider that allow you to see the first 5 (like the normal page), but you have to slide it. Maybe I can remove the slider and show the 5 pictures 1 below the other... it could be an idea.

Yes I need to reduce part below the logo, but just in case the user is not logged in or does not have submission, because when there is the "My submissions" section, it looks better ;-)

About the voting issues, it could be easily added a check on the size of the screen of the voting device to disable the voting feature, I don't know. But I guess I'm more agree with people who think it is fine to vote from mobile devices (for example I can say on my old laptop I had a very bad screen worst than the best smartphone screen we can find now)
10/05/2017 09:57:13 AM · #70
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:


Two things... One, if you honestly think I believe the site is "horrible" then you're not exactly the smartest person in the world... This site has been my number one go to site every time I open a browser. Two, I'm not saying I'm correct with voting with mobile being the better option... I'm simply saying that if my opinion is correct, we won't have a website much long to call home... I just wanted to talk about the issue so that we can keep the site alive long enough for me to enjoy it with my kids (if I ever have any)...

And if we want to talk statistics we can...

Number of entries per challenge now vs 5 years ago vs 10 years ago...
Number of votes per challenge now vs 5 years ago vs 10 years ago...
Number of forum posts per hour now vs 5 years ago vs 10 years ago...

Activity is what keeps this place alive and don't get me wrong, I'll try to be as active as I can for as long as I can regardless if we head to mobile or not, just the same as you... Which is why this place has lasted as long as it has... But I have a hunch that you and I are the exception to the rule given the statistics of how the site has been doing the last 10 years...

Again, I might be completely wrong with this but the lack of activity is hard to ignore.

Statistics are a funny thing. You can use them to manipulate/support your POV with relatively little difficulty.

They're also painfully easy to shoot in the @$$....

Five to ten years ago there wasn't the ease and mindless drivel of FB, Instagram, and Twitter to amuse the minds of the facile.

There are quite a few people who are still here who are reasonably active. Sure, the bloom may be off the rose for some, but that doesn't mean the site is doomed.

Maybe a questionnaire could be put together by those of us who want this place to continue and circulated both through the forums and personal contact. It wouldn't necessarily require any action on the part of the site if members of the community were willing to put forth the effort.

The doomsayers have been preaching End of Days for DPC for the last couple of years, and personally, I find that kind of destructive.

Maybe we could try and figure out how many active and semi-active paying members we need to keep the site alive and work with that.

I would be willing to help, if for no other reason to perhaps eliminate, or at least diminish the constant "We need to do this to save us", and "We're gonna tank any day now.".

I'd love to see a poll where members are surveyed in a general manner to see if they're interested in having DPC around for years to come. The site is not for everyone, and that's okay. I understand the concept of learn, grow, and move on. I also understand appreciating a good and enjoyable resource and wanting it to stay around.

I sincerely love this place, but I also feel that part of what is key to keeping it good for me is acceptance of what it is, being grateful for that, and utilizing it as it is for my own personal participation, education, socialization, and enjoyment.
10/05/2017 10:04:30 AM · #71
Originally posted by the_rkp:

Guys thanks for the feedback and the appreciations :)

As an older DPCer, I would like to say that I think it's wonderful that you're willing to spend the time and effort for your project.

Should it be something that the majority wants, and it's doable, great.

I will always remain in the camp for full screen voting.
10/05/2017 10:18:51 AM · #72
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Five to ten years ago there wasn't the ease and mindless drivel of FB, Instagram, and Twitter to amuse the minds of the facile.

There are quite a few people who are still here who are reasonably active. Sure, the bloom may be off the rose for some, but that doesn't mean the site is doomed.

Maybe a questionnaire could be put together by those of us who want this place to continue and circulated both through the forums and personal contact. It wouldn't necessarily require any action on the part of the site if members of the community were willing to put forth the effort.

The doomsayers have been preaching End of Days for DPC for the last couple of years, and personally, I find that kind of destructive.



1) FB, Instagram, and Twitter are growing faster than you could imagine... There's a reason for that... It's easy, new, simple, easy to interact, easy to obtain when you have a few minutes to mess around between class, at lunch, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I agree to a certain extent that gaining the "instant gratification" crowd has its seriously bad side effect. And if we want to talk about that, sure I can go along with that.

2) I think there are more than just a few who don't have the bloom on their flower anymore... That's the point I'm trying to make.

3) A questionnaire sent to the "still active" members wouldn't be fair... The "still active" member think like me and you and would do anything to keep this site alive even if it's just a few of us left. This site has been my go-to page for years. I wouldn't want that to change. And I don't think it will until the site goes kurput... Which is what I'm trying to avoid.

4) I disagree that it's destructive to talk about possible "dooms day" for DPC... I think it's absolutely the opposite. Talking about ideas and gaining people's interest with new and upcoming items is what I think this site needs. Do I think "dooms day" will happen soon? Hell no, there's a bunch of us so loyal that we would talk to a wall before giving up... I'm just saying there's a limit to the inactivity before one doesn't visit the site anymore. Again this is all opinion and am very open to those who have another opinion.

5) Lastly, I'm a numbers guy... I like factual numbers to back up opinions. I am not saying that this hasn't gotten me in trouble in the past because it totally has but it's just how my brain works. Seeing the number decrease has been very noticeable... One can only start to think... That's all...
10/05/2017 10:19:52 AM · #73
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I will always remain in the camp for full screen voting.


Willing to compromise?

ETA - Example - open challenges to be allowed mobile voting where member challenges aren't?

Message edited by author 2017-10-05 10:20:32.
10/05/2017 11:06:41 AM · #74
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I will always remain in the camp for full screen voting.


Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

Willing to compromise?


No, I don't want to compromise. I want to work with whomever to investigate *any* long term potential idea to help DPC.

Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

ETA - Example - open challenges to be allowed mobile voting where member challenges aren't?


That actually does sound like a possibility, even if only a beta situation to see how it fares.

One thing I have noticed. The same thing about DPC that appeals to me, the hard-nosed, honest, sometimes brutal feedback can be off-putting to someone who shows up here whose only exposure to critique is the like button and "Oooooh! You're sooooooo good!".

I know as someone who has cleaned house in local events and has a fairly good sales record for my large prints that it's always a heapin' helping of humble pie to come back here and enter challenges. I have been trashed for entries that were, accurately, mediocre at best. The upside of that is it sure as Hell keeps any exaggerated ego in check and sure makes me feel terrific when I mange to put something in that does well. I've also on numerous occasions gotten feedback on things about my image that would not have occurred to me had I not entered it.

I guess it's to a certain extent impossible for me to see how the site is looked at with new eyes in the current day's atmosphere. I need to remember that as an official DPC old fart, I guess. LOL!!!
10/05/2017 11:17:15 AM · #75
Examples of DPC with different colour schemes. Spaces intentional after https to get around spam filter.
https ://imgur.com/Lnep4zB
https ://imgur.com/VmV6BXI

There has to be a compromise. When viewing images my background is solid black. It\\\'s how I prefer to look at websites, dpc included. I use stylebot to change every site I frequent.

I know the discussion is about mobile devices, but you can\\\'t ensure everyone is voting on images using the same settings. Why should mobile devices be any different?
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