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07/30/2006 09:55:13 PM · #1
I just finished my third portrait session on thursday. I have a question about editing though. They really like what I've done with pictures of my daughter- softening certain shots, black and white, different tones, ect.

So I'm working on his portfolio right now- he just signed with a modeling agency. They already ordered pictures from his first session and I'm pretty sure they'll want some from this last session also- went a lot better then the first.
When editing do I do the extras like I would for my daughters pictures and put those on his proofs cd, or do I just keep it plain and simple, fix and blemishes, ect? How far do you go with the editing thing? He's also for my own portfolio so I have something to show future customers.
I have over 45 shots of him so I don't want to go crazy, but he and his parents have no experience with photographers either so I don't know if I should do something special with all of the shots- good thing I enjoy this and don't mind being up late haha, or if I should just work with a few and leave it at that. If they ask for the extra editing after looking at all of them then I'd do that for an extra charge.
Am I making any sense? lol
07/30/2006 10:34:03 PM · #2
I don't give people unprocessed photos. I also shoot in RAW.

I let them proof the originals online (only whitebalance has been corrected, no other processing).

My services allow them to choose five proofs for processing without incurring an extra charge, I will do the processing they want, or what I deem necessary on those five to make them perfect. If they want more than five then its $10 per photo for processing.

I don't let them get prints of images that have not been processed.

The system has worked fine so far.
07/31/2006 06:12:59 PM · #3
I like the idea of limiting the number you'll process...I was thinking of going the 'package' route but want to be different - i like this idea alot! Controls my editing time but offers the customer more choices. I can still 'sell' unlimited poses at the sessions too. Thanks!

For weddings since I pretty much do it all, I 'process' or edit then one I use in the albums or they get prints of (formals mosty).

When i did the pet pics, I picked the best shots and that was that. this year I want to give them some options...

For HS seniors is where I'm working myself to death. OK this year, but if i get busy (like i want) it won't work...

Some of it depends on how close you can get to a finished pic in-camera. For studio shots you should be 99% of the way there. For location shots I expect more PP work - this will be considered for next year's pricing for sure!

One big studio here sells sessions by the 'look' - b&w, extreme b&w, W.O.W. (hi key i think is what it is - white on white), etc. Customer decides BEFORE they have the session so the photog knows what to shoot, how to process etc.

It's you're job to make them look good...
what is 'your' look/style?
there are some basic things you can set up as actions (borders, vignetteing, etc)
If you edit a few to show as proofs you may sell more poses.
07/31/2006 07:06:54 PM · #4
I'd be careful in letting people see your bare-originals... non-photographers w/o PS knowledge won't be able to judge as well how a photo can or cannot turn out

ie: a girl might reject a photo because there is a noticable blemish that she doesn't consciously recognize as being removable, or someone might not imagine a certain photo in B&W and therefore not like it, whereas you would

just a thought...
07/31/2006 08:51:23 PM · #5
Originally posted by amandalore:

I'd be careful in letting people see your bare-originals... non-photographers w/o PS knowledge won't be able to judge as well how a photo can or cannot turn out

ie: a girl might reject a photo because there is a noticable blemish that she doesn't consciously recognize as being removable, or someone might not imagine a certain photo in B&W and therefore not like it, whereas you would

just a thought...


The only other option I see is to process them all then...which is impossible. A shoot with 75 pictures...there's no way.

Do you just select the best for the person without letting them choose? Let me know cause I may go that route because I never liked having to show people the originals.
07/31/2006 08:53:57 PM · #6
My bf, Dave, just picks the best ones, saves all his originals and customers always are happy with the results. They never know if or what they are missing, if anything really. You are the photographer and your judgement is respected, I'm sure, by your customers

so either way is Ok as I see it
07/31/2006 08:55:55 PM · #7
Originally posted by amandalore:

My bf, Dave, just picks the best ones, saves all his originals and customers always are happy with the results. They never know if or what they are missing, if anything really. You are the photographer and your judgement is respected, I'm sure, by your customers

so either way is Ok as I see it


Does he only pick a certain number? The only thing is that I am able to make a lot more money when people get to choose because they almost always choose more than 5, which adds up when its $10/selection after 5. And then the more they choose the more available print options there are which makes a bigger print package.

Let me know, I still havent' figured out what I'm going to do.
07/31/2006 09:04:35 PM · #8
If there are any duplicate poses or those very close throw out but only the best of each pose. Batch process what you can. Get most everything right in-camera, fix minor blemishes. Give them to the customer.

FWIW, I can PP about 75 images in a day's work. Learn your tools, learn what to leave as is. You don't have to clean up every single pore.
07/31/2006 10:27:29 PM · #9
There's the way the big pro's do it (as in studios taht do over $1 million in sales) and the way us average joes can do it (i don't have a dedicated room for previewing, or the LCD projector to do it).

So what do you show? For studio perhaps not much, but different expressions, different crops, color/b&w/extreme b&w/sepia/cross processed - i take the few i like the best and do a few up in the diffrent ways. usually they like what I do, but they also (always!) take the worst shot and want it blown up to 16x20!

I also take too many pics I think. Shot a senior girl. I tell tehm ahead of time about clothing, etc, but she was not happy with her pics. She blamed herself, not being 'ready' and such - so i offered to reshoot -cheap. she wanted outdoors and it rained the first day. SO we do some differnt stuff in teh studio and go to a park - hey, i got a free (well, she paid me) model to work with, so I spend about 90 minutes including travel and get 249 captures. I've culled that to 143, and will drop a few more - that will be my proofs then, with a few tweaked in PS. Too many? yeah, probably so. Tons more than my competetors for sure.

session one - //www.viewandchoose.com/ and click on LIZZ. I've have session two up tomorrow morning. These studio shots are a bit strong on the BG (to say the least!) I had a light that was acting up - it would not throttle down far enough -it is now my main light. got it used..not sure the issue with it.

I printed this pic for me as a sample to show 'extreme b&w' (in a slighter tighter crop) and I love the pic. It has gotten some very nice comments from everyone that's seen it.

07/31/2006 10:32:34 PM · #10
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

If there are any duplicate poses or those very close throw out but only the best of each pose. Batch process what you can. Get most everything right in-camera, fix minor blemishes. Give them to the customer.

FWIW, I can PP about 75 images in a day's work. Learn your tools, learn what to leave as is. You don't have to clean up every single pore.


Man, you're gonna make me time myself, huh? I think I can do more than 75 - but it depends on how much PP work...but you're right - you have to get a workflow down and stick to it.

I shoot RAW, and use DPP for the conversion - and sorrting, WB, picture style, exposure comp and basic cropping as it's fast and i can always go back to the RAW file for the uncropped version.

patch tool is the best for fixing blemishs
clone tool or clone tool on darken or lighten at 50% works well for wrinkles, shiny spots, bad skin.
healing brush can blend the clone a bit more.
i created a vignette action so I can darken the edges of a pic easily.
i have another action that sets up layers for b&w or sepia - i can tweak it but often don't have to.
08/01/2006 08:11:39 AM · #11
Well the way I have things set up is they can choose packages or seperate prints, OR they can buy a cd rom with all the prints- no I'm not selling them cheap nor are they the originals. That's one reason I'm asking this. The kid I did on thursday ordered a cd rom PLUS prints from his first session but I didn't take NEAR as many shots of him that time. I took more than 40 but tossed a bunch of them due to light, movement, pose, ect.
I have over 40 shots this time and all are good. He had some serious bags under his eyes this time and I removed those, and I adjusted the levels and curves just a bit. But really that's all I need to do. I'm wondering about special processing.
The first session cd I made I basically did minor processing and had each shot in color and in b&w.
I guess if they want more than that they can just ask?

Message edited by author 2006-08-01 08:14:26.
08/01/2006 09:48:22 AM · #12
First, what do you want? If you want to make the best images possible then you will do whatever work that takes and charge accordingly (and be high end).
You can do only the minmum to make an acceptable print and be like everyone else (you know what i mean)

If you want to offer the extra editing options to the client, then you need to define them and figure a price.

I remove pimples and shiny spots at no charge. Some folks charge for the shiny spot bit, but here lately it's 85-90 degrees and 70% humidity - everyone's shiny!

Braces are always an extra charge, as is usually eye bags, wrinkles, fixing droopy eyelids, wrinkles and stray hairs.

I often fix stray hairs and spots on clothes for free - i figure these are flaws I should have caught at the time we shot, same with reflections on glasses even if they were unavoidable.

Offer 'basic retouching is included in all prints' and 'deluxe retouching is available for $7 per image (print/pose)' 7 seems to be a standard price. This way you've let them know these services are available, what they cost and what they do - they can then choose if they want them done.

Message edited by author 2006-08-01 09:48:58.
08/01/2006 01:20:37 PM · #13
Thanks prof, that's what I was looking for.

He's basically my test subject lol. Thanks to him I have 10 seniors lined up for fall, plus a few family friends of theirs. He was my guy to get the ball rolling so to speak and it worked. I want to do something nice for them, but I don't want to overdo it either. There's a couple shots that would look really cool with special b&w editing. So that's why I'm asking. If I should go ahead and mess around with them and put them on the disk.

I like the $7 a pose for extra editing. I have something similar on my price list but I do need to add that blemish removal and things of that nature are part of the print price or whatever.

This whole business thing has my head spinning lol. REALLY trying to keep it down because I don't want to be a pro, I still want to do the little art shows and contests around here, but on the other hand I enjoy it so much I want to share it with other people as well.
08/01/2006 01:54:47 PM · #14
I guess what differientiates my PP work with that of most "portrait" photographers is that much of my work is nude or very close to it. You can't as easily PP away major issues with posing when your customer is butt naked.

You have to get posing right to minimize trouble areas. Ocourse that means I have to deal with less issues in the face, since my face crops aren't as tight.

Here's some tips:
If you are dealing with problem skin on the face, back the crop out some. Don't do the head and shoulders shots, but more full body shots. You'll save yourself a lot of PP work and generally make a more flattering portrait.

Watch your lightingg. Don't make bad skin worse by having each pimple cast a long shadow. Flat lighting a face might be a bit boring, but can drastically better the look of your subject's skin.

Makeup: I'm by no means a makeup artist... but learn enough about makeup to help your model apply hers.

In general men are a lot easier to deal with. We tend to have less skin issues and we definitely don't obsess about them as much. :-)
08/01/2006 03:02:00 PM · #15
Originally posted by specialk0783:

Originally posted by amandalore:

My bf, Dave, just picks the best ones, saves all his originals and customers always are happy with the results. They never know if or what they are missing, if anything really. You are the photographer and your judgement is respected, I'm sure, by your customers

so either way is Ok as I see it


Does he only pick a certain number? The only thing is that I am able to make a lot more money when people get to choose because they almost always choose more than 5, which adds up when its $10/selection after 5. And then the more they choose the more available print options there are which makes a bigger print package.

Let me know, I still havent' figured out what I'm going to do.


He'll take about 300 pictures in a single shoot. When he gets home, he copies the folder (so he keeps all originals) and goes through very quickly, checking for focus, poses, DOF, etc, and deletes probably half or more of the photos right off the bat.

Then he goes through again and opens each one in PS, does a really quick test (about 30sec ea.) to see how he thinks the photo will react to being processed, and ends up throwing away about half of these.

Then he starts going through and he does minimal PS, cropping, leveling, color adjusting, and contrast, etc. Only few of his photos will take more time than just the basics. When he starts a shoot, he tweeks with all his camera settings, and knows them extremely well (too bad he doesn't post his stuff here), checks the camera, takes a few pics, checks the camera again, etc, makes sure everything is set and then takes a ton of pictures. He'll usually end up with about 40 (to 80) photos in a proof book for the customer, and they're always happy.

Of course, his best work, and his favorite, is candid-type, outside photography, not sure if it's the shot-gun thing or what, but he always has a knack for capturing the best once in a lifetime type shots, he always has very weird bipolar type luck.

He rarely does studio and until a year or less ago, refused to do that or wedding type photography. So who knows, this might not be the best routine for your type of work.

lol, I always joke with him about the DPC challenges, because he sucks at trying to take photos that fit within some kind of specific criteria and appeal to this type of crowd at the same time, yet, he is a rediculously way better photographer than me. haha
08/02/2006 02:12:33 PM · #16
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

I guess what differientiates my PP work with that of most "portrait" photographers is that much of my work is nude or very close to it. You can't as easily PP away major issues with posing when your customer is butt naked.

You have to get posing right to minimize trouble areas. Ocourse that means I have to deal with less issues in the face, since my face crops aren't as tight.

Here's some tips:
If you are dealing with problem skin on the face, back the crop out some. Don't do the head and shoulders shots, but more full body shots. You'll save yourself a lot of PP work and generally make a more flattering portrait.

Watch your lightingg. Don't make bad skin worse by having each pimple cast a long shadow. Flat lighting a face might be a bit boring, but can drastically better the look of your subject's skin.

Makeup: I'm by no means a makeup artist... but learn enough about makeup to help your model apply hers.

In general men are a lot easier to deal with. We tend to have less skin issues and we definitely don't obsess about them as much. :-)


lol! well I did have to get rid of the bags under his eyes, and was quite pleased that I did so and it wasn't noticeable- I suppose my pp is improving now!

I do want to make him look good because I have gained more customers because of him, but he's also using these pictures for his own modeling portfolio.

Thanks all for the help and insight.
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