Snapshot Or Not? - DPChallenge Forums

09/18/2003 03:00:50 PM · #1

When does a snapshot become something more than a snapshot?

Thirsty by Jamie Klock

(posted with permission)

I was browsing another site recently and stumbled across this photo. The photographer's comments on this image were as follows:

"The kids have been wanting money (and a lot of it) lately. We started paying them a little to do extra things around the house and yard. They decided to try their luck at vending......unfortunately it didn't work out (this time). Don't they look thrilled. "

I sorta fell in love with this photo at first site... even before I had read the comments left by the photographer. The little girl holding the sign has a look on her face that is begging me to come buy some "lemon-aide". She has that look in her eye that is often only seen on a cute puppy :) There are no customers buying lemon-aide but the determination with the advertising campaign here is still in full swing.

The older sister, sitting on the curb, is disgusted. She may feel a bit irritated because dad is making her work for the money rather that giving her a handout. She's probably doesn't have much interest in the 'business' like her little sister does :)

I post this photo here for discussion because I think it is the best photograph I have seen recently....

John Setzler

StevePax

Canon PowerShot S50

09/18/2003 03:12:10 PM · #2

I agree that it is a great photo because it accomplishes what I think photography does - it conveys a feeling and emotion, not just documentation of a scene. We can all tell that it is not technically perfect - the lemonade cart is a little washed out and the background is a little dark. However, when you look at it you can't help but think of your own kids and wish you were there - I know I'd instantly pony up the 25 cents if I saw that little girls face. Great shot.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

09/18/2003 03:16:19 PM · #3

This is one of those photos, in my opinion, where technical merit does not matter in the least.

scab-lab

Canon EOS-D60

09/18/2003 03:16:49 PM · #4

I wouldnt discount it as a snapshot, its more documentary than anything IMHO. Something I think you could easily see in the paper or such. Definately emotion in both girls to be read and interpeted. The slanted angle of the shot annoys me a bit, but other than that, it doesnt strike me as a true shoot from the hip snapshot. The photographer definately wanted to capture this moment in time to documant these girls and their endeavor.

Jacko

Canon EOS-20D

09/18/2003 03:17:31 PM · #5

To me this isn't a snapshot. There are too many interesting elements to this picture. Looks almost surreal actually, because of the little girl having the facial expression of an inmate or a criminal taking a mug shot. Doesn't say snapshot to me.

A snapshot to me is granny posing beside the plastic cow at Canada's Wonderland.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

09/18/2003 03:20:13 PM · #6

To me, a snapshot is any photo that is taken 'off the cuff' without any planning... just pointing the camera and shooting. I suppose I could go further by saying that a snapshot is any photo that is not originally intended to have artistic merit of any kind.

The intriguing thing about it is that sometimes the 'art' just happens all by itself :)

Jacko

Canon EOS-20D

09/18/2003 03:23:01 PM · #7

To me this is a candid shot, by your very definition. Candid isn't always a 'spy shot' where the subject is unaware of being photographed, but rather a shot on the fly without much preparation.

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

timj351

Sony DSC-F707

09/18/2003 03:43:29 PM · #8

I like this photo quite a bit too. I love the multiple expression of desperation and determination in the little girls face. It definitely has a typical snapshot look but with many of the right elements to make it a compelling photo. I would love to be able to work with the original and by using some new tricks I have learned recently, try to pull out some more detail in the cooler as well as the background. It wouldn't change the already great emotional aspect of the photo but maybe it could improve it a little bit more technically. I actually like the slight tilt to the photo. I feel it adds some tension and unrest to the image which only adds to the girls' expressions.

A snapshot, where the focus is primarily on capturing the area of interest in a very quick fashion, can still turn into a great photo by anyone. Either you get lucky and all of the necessary elements fall into place or you have enough experience to compose and consider all of the elements very quickly. I don't prefer, obviously, to shoot this way but it is necessary sometimes especially when you are out with other people who don't want to stop continuously so you can shoot something. It's really good practice to learn to see as much as you can quickly for all the times when you need to shoot fast and still want a good photo.

T

Sonifo

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

09/18/2003 03:45:05 PM · #9

What if the photo was in color. Would it still be a great photo or would you think it was a snapshot then? I think because it is b/w it gives a unique feel to the photo.
I agree John, it is an exellent picture.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

09/18/2003 03:48:01 PM · #10

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I think that's a good definition of a poor snapshot. "Good snapshots" (like this one) consider framing, lighting, and activity of the subject, just very quickly. I think the key element of snapshot to me is the ephemeral nature of the subject and limited opportunity to capture the image.

I have an example posted in the current "Clouds" thread (maybe in the "Staged thread too) where I had a few seconds to get out the camera and plan to take the shot as I passed a certain place in the road. I have no problem listing it as a snapshot -- but hopefully it's better than a random frame.

I agree that this is an excellent example of how technical "excellence" can be quite a secondary factor in determining whether an image is a "good" photo. (Now can everyone go raise their vote on my Freedom entry by 2 points?)

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

09/18/2003 03:54:46 PM · #11

Originally posted by Sonifo:

I never considered what it would look like in color since it wasn't presented that way.

dsidwell

Canon EOS-5D

09/18/2003 04:00:46 PM · #12

What a super question, John! I have been wondering the difference between snapshot and candid and journalistic photos myself as I have been wanting to develop my skills in this area. I found out after I returned that almost none of my NYC shots have any people in them! Too bad for a place that is largely defined by them!

Initially, I think the following (though I'm by no means certain or sure of myself):

- A snapshot seeks to merely record a moment or event or subject.

- A candid shot seeks to interpret a moment or event or subject, and is therefore more artistic, and artistic elements come more into play while preserving the ephemeral nature of the subject.

- A journalistic photo seeks to both record and interpret an event, but in a specific context (such as a newspaper, magazine, or broader as a documentary to an event--such as a war). As such, these types of shots are quite artistic, too, with the importance weighted on the event being in a context. So a Pulitzer Prize winning journalistic photo is very artistic, but has little meaning outside of the context for which it stands as a record.

The photo that John opened with, to me, is a candid shot, as artistic choices were obviously made, though the ephemeral nature is still captured. The cropping or framing, the use of B/W, and the careful--if quick--compostion choices indicate artistic choices to me.

Whew! Am I up in the night?

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

09/18/2003 04:01:15 PM · #13

I love the girls expression, along with the hangdog look of the sister. I actually quite like the blown highlights - it gives her socks a weird glow and I don't think I'd want to change any of the technical stuff - they don't bother me and add to the feel of the picture.

Its a hot summer's day - so you feel the sun reflecting in the hot whites. It is obviously a staged shot for the camera, yet you still feel what is going on. That's the main thing I think that makes it not a candid - I feel like I'm standing 2 ft in front of this girl taking the picture - she's acting for the camera, not anyone else. Its staged to look candid to me - not that that detracts from the shot, but I don't see it as what gets called a 'snapshot' The additional care that has
gone in to turning this into a B&W also implies more thought and consideration than the typical holiday snap.

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

09/18/2003 04:07:20 PM · #14

I tried to separate snapshots from photographs when I was developing my personal approach to voting on the dpc challenges, but it never worked. What I did find, during my research, was that Henri Cartier-Bresson's work was occasionaly criticized as being mere snapshots, yet today he is considered one of the greatest photographers of the Twentieth Century. In the end it's a photographs impact that counts and nothing else. We have a lot of "rules" and technicques that should help our photographs communicate, but adherence to these to not define success. Sometimes we even manage to succeed by simply pointing the camera and snapping the shutter.

Message edited by author 2003-09-18 16:16:59.

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

09/18/2003 04:53:25 PM · #15

We had this exact discussion not so long ago and I wish forum search worked so I could find it but...

In my opinion a snapshot is an image which is not only taken off the cuff but also one that has interest only to the person who took it and to those who were there at the time, possibly also to a few friends and family. The image in itself doesn't have technical or artistic or even content merit to strangers.

The image you've posted, Setz, is not a snapshot by my definition, because it does hold a great deal of magnetism for people who don't personally know those involved.

I love the feel of it and the expressions of the young girls, I want to know the story behind the image. I catch myself wondering if lemon-aide is a typo or whether it's a lemonade sale in aid of some charitable cause and the spelling is a deliberate mix of the two. It's a great image...

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G DX VR

09/18/2003 06:54:45 PM · #16

Originally posted by Kavey:

The image you've posted, Setz, is not a snapshot by my definition, because it does hold a great deal of magnetism for people who don't personally know those involved.

I wonder what the photographer's intent was with this photo? He knows I have posted it here and I gave him a link to this discussion thread as well.

In my mind, the result here is not a snapshot because of the characteristics the photo has. I think the term 'snapshot' could possibly be narrowed a little more here as well. I believe that, whether or not the image is a snapshot, is determined at the time the shutter is released. Whether or not the resulting photograph has 'snapshot' characteristics is another story.

If I had to offer a guess as to what the photographer's intent was with this image, I would say that snapshot was probably the intent. He probably did ask the young girl to step out and hold up the sign for a photograph. So, even though it is not completely off the cuff, I think family album type photo may have been the original intent. I feel confident that, if the photographer wanted something more than a snapshot, he probalby would have not settled for the other girl to appear to be sulking on the curb... He may have attempted to create a scene here that is more compositionally complex than this one. As I read his own comments on the photo, I had no reason to believe that this was an actual attempt to capture something showing this level of emotion. This photograph doesn't have the compositional characteristics of something that is planned and thought out. If this shot IS planed and thought out in advance, I must say that the photographer is working on a much deeper level than I will ever know :)

myqyl

Nikon D3100

09/18/2003 07:00:32 PM · #17

On a slightly different point, I sure hope he paid them a modeling fee :)

This is far from snapshot and belongs in a coffee table book.

09/18/2003 07:40:02 PM · #18

Originally posted by myqyl:

On a slightly different point, I sure hope he paid them a modeling fee :)

This is far from snapshot and belongs in a coffee table book.

I agree on the coffee table book... I can clearly see this as a part of a 'modern suburban americana' theme :)

finnur

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

09/18/2003 09:33:54 PM · #19

I love this photo.
Most of my shots of people are snapshots and some of them have ended up on this site.
For instance my submision for the life challenge is a pure snapshot that displays a lot of feeling and emotion but I am geting comments concerning the "models" and "setup" and stuff that I had no controll over.
Bah
When ever I try to set up a photo and try to get my subjects to act in a certain way it ends up as phony looking crap.
Snapshots are the only true emotional shots I get, when people don´t notice or mind the camera.

tiktoklock

Nikon D100

09/18/2003 10:26:45 PM · #20

After reading over the responses to this thread, I have to say that I am pleased that 1. That this photo was liked 2. That it seemed interesting enough to talk about. I took this photo....it wasn't a planned set up shot as was thought.....my intention when going over to the stand was to capture a bunch of kids doing business, unfortunately, their location wasn't the greatest so, as you could see, Emily was sulking on the curb. Megan, on the other hand, jumped up with the sign as I approached with my camera in tow. She held it up there for just a second, and as 7 year olds do, continued to and fro in hopes of some customers. In the post processing part of this, I cropped in a tad and desaturated. B/W shots to me are so much more intimate and so easy to jump into, and also lend a classic look. Thats about it in a nutshell....I appreciate all your comments, and to John, I appreciate you giving me an opportunity to share my work.

09/19/2003 09:21:04 AM · #21

Jamie, thanks for posting... thanks for stopping by here also :)

pitsaman

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

09/19/2003 01:33:29 PM · #22

Here is Snapshot from the work parking lot!

Davenit

Canon EOS-1D

09/19/2003 02:02:15 PM · #23

Originally posted by pitsaman:

Here is Snapshot from the work parking lot!

And that has to do with the conversation...how?

pitsaman

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

09/19/2003 04:14:09 PM · #24

What?

Message edited by author 2003-09-19 16:14:31.