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02/20/2007 03:02:31 PM · #1
Hi --

As stated in the rulesets, when originals of your challenge entries are requested they must be completely untouched by any kind of transfer or editing software.

We will be strictly enforcing this rule from this point on, so we have created a set of guidelines for you to use. Please respond in this thread if you have questions, and Contact Us if you have specific questions about your workflow and its impact on your image files.

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Guidelines for Preserving Your Challenge Entry Originals

If you shoot in JPEG:
JPEG images which have been modified in any way by transfer software are NOT considered valid originals. "Transfer Software" includes, but is not limited to, applications such as iPhoto, ACDSee, Nikon Transfer, and Windows Vista Import. This doesn't mean you can't use such applications, but it is your responsibility to make sure the files remain exactly as they were recorded by your camera. Generally speaking, if you hit "save" at any point you are altering the file, but these applications and others can sometimes modify your files on import. Once a file has been changed, there is no way to determine whether the "original" has been illegally edited, so this policy is critical to ensure the integrity of the challenge results.

The easiest way to ensure your files are valid originals is to ignore any dialog boxes that appear when you attach your card or your camera. Find the files' original source (either a drive letter or a disk icon that appears on your desktop), and manually move any files that are potential challenge entries to your computer. Then always work on a copy of the file when you are post-processing.

If you shoot in RAW:
Transfer software does not affect the original image data of a RAW file. Therefore, RAW files moved by transfer software are valid originals. Note that you must submit a RAW proof file when requested. A JPEG saved from the original RAW is not sufficient.

If you shoot in JPEG + RAW you may submit either version of the file when requested. However, the JPEG must not be altered by any transfer software. RAW files are always preferable if they are available.

Remember that RAW files are never valid originals for challenges using the Minimal Editing ruleset.

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If you are ever in doubt of your workflow, please use the Contact Us page to submit your question to the Site Council. We can work with you to ensure that you are preserving your image's integrity.

Please note that going forward we will not allow any exceptions to this rule -- it will be enforced as strictly as the challenge date rule.

Thank you for understanding our position.
02/20/2007 04:05:50 PM · #2
Does this mean that I can just plug in my camera to my computer, let Canon EOS Utility (standard software with my camera) automatically download my files to the right folders and (before I do anything with it) use that file as an original? (RAW of JPEG). I don't hit "save" at any time, it all goes automatically (and I'm so happy with that!).
02/20/2007 04:13:42 PM · #3
The Pentax K10D allows the shooting of RAW in both .PEF and .DNG.

Is there going to be a problem with .DNG files?
02/20/2007 04:13:49 PM · #4
I always use cut and paste, so I'm okay. The only thing I've often wondered about is whether using the rotate buttons in 'Windows Picture and Fax Viewer' has any effect on the file, bearing in mind that the cameras I use have an orientation sensor (as do most current cameras).
02/20/2007 04:15:26 PM · #5
Originally posted by Artyste:

Is there going to be a problem with .DNG files?


DNG gets treated same as any other RAW file. :-)
02/20/2007 04:15:50 PM · #6
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

I always use cut and paste, so I'm okay. The only thing I've often wondered about is whether using the rotate buttons in 'Windows Picture and Fax Viewer' has any effect on the file, bearing in mind that the cameras I use have an orientation sensor (as do most current cameras).


I remember a discussion about this that concluded that using rotate in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer *does indeed* alter the file.

So I'd just be safer than sorry and not do it.
02/20/2007 04:16:09 PM · #7
I plug my camera into the computer. The computer recognizes it as an external drive, so I use explorer to go in and look at the memory card, copy all and dump them into a folder on the C: drive. Alternatively, I sometimes take the CF card out of the camera and plug it into a CF reader, then it's the same copy/paste protocol. Special transfer software is totally unnecessary and, as SC is pointing out, potentially damaging to your EXIF data.
02/20/2007 04:16:12 PM · #8
Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by Artyste:

Is there going to be a problem with .DNG files?


DNG gets treated same as any other RAW file. :-)


Okee dokee :)
02/20/2007 04:16:40 PM · #9
Originally posted by hajeka:

Does this mean that I can just plug in my camera to my computer, let Canon EOS Utility (standard software with my camera) automatically download my files to the right folders and (before I do anything with it) use that file as an original? (RAW of JPEG). I don't hit "save" at any time, it all goes automatically (and I'm so happy with that!).


With RAW you're OK, with JPEG it depends whether the EOS utility modifies the JPEG file. If it auto-rotates, it may tag the file and the file would then not be a valid original.
02/20/2007 04:22:08 PM · #10
Originally posted by kirbic:


With RAW you're OK, with JPEG it depends whether the EOS utility modifies the JPEG file. If it auto-rotates, it may tag the file and the file would then not be a valid original.


Is there a way I can validate this? Or do I have to wait until I will be asked to send an orignal?
02/20/2007 04:27:00 PM · #11
Originally posted by hajeka:

Originally posted by kirbic:


With RAW you're OK, with JPEG it depends whether the EOS utility modifies the JPEG file. If it auto-rotates, it may tag the file and the file would then not be a valid original.


Is there a way I can validate this? Or do I have to wait until I will be asked to send an orignal?


Yep. You can create a ticket and send it in for validation. That's what I'm gonna do. Even then it's only valid if you do it exactly the same way every time. This is starting to border on the absurd. Since I don't believe people do things like this to create work for themselves, I must conclude that SC is seeing RAWs that are suspicious.
02/20/2007 04:27:14 PM · #12
Originally posted by hajeka:

Originally posted by kirbic:


With RAW you're OK, with JPEG it depends whether the EOS utility modifies the JPEG file. If it auto-rotates, it may tag the file and the file would then not be a valid original.


Is there a way I can validate this? Or do I have to wait until I will be asked to send an orignal?


you can send an original as an attachment from the "Contact Us" page and we can review it that way.

Message edited by author 2007-02-20 16:27:49.
02/20/2007 04:28:47 PM · #13
Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

I always use cut and paste, so I'm okay. The only thing I've often wondered about is whether using the rotate buttons in 'Windows Picture and Fax Viewer' has any effect on the file, bearing in mind that the cameras I use have an orientation sensor (as do most current cameras).


I remember a discussion about this that concluded that using rotate in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer *does indeed* alter the file.

So I'd just be safer than sorry and not do it.


Eek, now I have to look at all my photos sideways to decide whether they have potential as challenge entries. That will hurt.
02/20/2007 04:29:39 PM · #14
Originally posted by fir3bird:

Originally posted by hajeka:

Originally posted by kirbic:


With RAW you're OK, with JPEG it depends whether the EOS utility modifies the JPEG file. If it auto-rotates, it may tag the file and the file would then not be a valid original.


Is there a way I can validate this? Or do I have to wait until I will be asked to send an orignal?


Yep. You can create a ticket and send it in for validation. That's what I'm gonna do. Even then it's only valid if you do it exactly the same way every time. This is starting to border on the absurd. Since I don't believe people do things like this to create work for themselves, I must conclude that SC is seeing RAWs that are suspicious.


It isn't absurd if you just gave up on the transfer software to begin with.. It's actually safer and easier on your camera to just invest in a card reader and have done with it. That way you just cut/paste all your photo, save wear and tear on your camera's USB connector, and ensure you never worry about whether or not your photo has been altered for DPC :)
02/20/2007 04:31:23 PM · #15
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

I always use cut and paste, so I'm okay. The only thing I've often wondered about is whether using the rotate buttons in 'Windows Picture and Fax Viewer' has any effect on the file, bearing in mind that the cameras I use have an orientation sensor (as do most current cameras).


I remember a discussion about this that concluded that using rotate in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer *does indeed* alter the file.

So I'd just be safer than sorry and not do it.


Eek, now I have to look at all my photos sideways to decide whether they have potential as challenge entries. That will hurt.


I don't understand.. if your camera has an orientation sensor, they should be going on your computer in the correct orientation anyway...?
Or did you mean the cameras you use *don't* have an orientation sensor?

My DS doesn't, and I've been looking at pictures sideways since I got it. hehe. It's an art form.

*EDIT* CJ brought up a good point.. you *can* always temporarily save copies of images in another directory in order to rotate them to look at them. I never do it because I've never needed to.. but there it is.

Message edited by author 2007-02-20 16:39:11.
02/20/2007 04:34:12 PM · #16
Originally posted by fir3bird:

This is starting to border on the absurd. Since I don't believe people do things like this to create work for themselves, I must conclude that SC is seeing RAWs that are suspicious.


I have to agree. This is ridiculous! So now I have to be concerned that one of my entries might be DQ'd because I rotated it?

Come on man!
02/20/2007 04:37:28 PM · #17
Originally posted by tooohip:

I have to agree. This is ridiculous! So now I have to be concerned that one of my entries might be DQ'd because I rotated it?

Come on man!


As long as you save your original before you rotate, there's no problem.

If you don't save your original, then how can we be sure all you did is rotate?

~Terry
02/20/2007 04:38:09 PM · #18
Originally posted by Artyste:


My DS doesn't, and I've been looking at pictures sideways since I got it. hehe. It's an art form.


lol...same here. i've never used any rotation on photos until i actually start editing.
02/20/2007 04:38:33 PM · #19
Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

I always use cut and paste, so I'm okay. The only thing I've often wondered about is whether using the rotate buttons in 'Windows Picture and Fax Viewer' has any effect on the file, bearing in mind that the cameras I use have an orientation sensor (as do most current cameras).


I remember a discussion about this that concluded that using rotate in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer *does indeed* alter the file.

So I'd just be safer than sorry and not do it.


Eek, now I have to look at all my photos sideways to decide whether they have potential as challenge entries. That will hurt.


I don't understand.. if your camera has an orientation sensor, they should be going on your computer in the correct orientation anyway...?
Or did you mean the cameras you use *don't* have an orientation sensor?

My DS doesn't, and I've been looking at pictures sideways since I got it. hehe. It's an art form.


Idea: Cut and paste them into a new folder, make copies in another folder, then use the viewer to look at the copies :)
02/20/2007 04:39:20 PM · #20
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by tooohip:

I have to agree. This is ridiculous! So now I have to be concerned that one of my entries might be DQ'd because I rotated it?

Come on man!


As long as you save your original before you rotate, there's no problem.

If you don't save your original, then how can we be sure all you did is rotate?

~Terry


I transfer with Nikon Transfer than rotate all vertical shots so I don't have to look at them sideways. Are you now saying, I need to save them and take up additional hard drive space just to be safe from this?

This is starting to not be fun anymore if I constantly need to worry about DQ's because I forgot something so ludicrous.
02/20/2007 04:39:45 PM · #21
Originally posted by TCGuru:

Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

I always use cut and paste, so I'm okay. The only thing I've often wondered about is whether using the rotate buttons in 'Windows Picture and Fax Viewer' has any effect on the file, bearing in mind that the cameras I use have an orientation sensor (as do most current cameras).


I remember a discussion about this that concluded that using rotate in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer *does indeed* alter the file.

So I'd just be safer than sorry and not do it.


Eek, now I have to look at all my photos sideways to decide whether they have potential as challenge entries. That will hurt.


I don't understand.. if your camera has an orientation sensor, they should be going on your computer in the correct orientation anyway...?
Or did you mean the cameras you use *don't* have an orientation sensor?

My DS doesn't, and I've been looking at pictures sideways since I got it. hehe. It's an art form.


Idea: Cut and paste them into a new folder, make copies in another folder, then use the viewer to look at the copies :)


lol.. nice I *just* edited my response and then saw your answer. :)
02/20/2007 04:40:17 PM · #22
Originally posted by tooohip:

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by tooohip:

I have to agree. This is ridiculous! So now I have to be concerned that one of my entries might be DQ'd because I rotated it?

Come on man!


As long as you save your original before you rotate, there's no problem.

If you don't save your original, then how can we be sure all you did is rotate?

~Terry


I transfer with Nikon Transfer than rotate all vertical shots so I don't have to look at them sideways. Are you now saying, I need to save them and take up additional hard drive space just to be safe from this?

This is starting to not be fun anymore if I constantly need to worry about DQ's because I forgot something so ludicrous.


There's a simple solution. Stop entering challenges.
02/20/2007 04:41:26 PM · #23
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

The only thing I've often wondered about is whether using the rotate buttons in 'Windows Picture and Fax Viewer' has any effect on the file.


I remember a discussion about this that concluded that using rotate in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer *does indeed* alter the file.

So I'd just be safer than sorry and not do it.


Eek, now I have to look at all my photos sideways to decide whether they have potential as challenge entries. That will hurt.


Take a picture you don't care about (or a copy of one you do) and right click on the thumbnail within widows explorer and click on rotate thumbnail. Check the file size after this and you will see that it is smaller. Keep rotating it and keep checking the file size. It gets smaller and smaller every time. As for opening the file in Windows Picture Viewer you can rotate it there to look at. Just don't save it.
02/20/2007 04:41:26 PM · #24
Originally posted by tooohip:

I transfer with Nikon Transfer than rotate all vertical shots so I don't have to look at them sideways. Are you now saying, I need to save them and take up additional hard drive space just to be safe from this?

This is starting to not be fun anymore if I constantly need to worry about DQ's because I forgot something so ludicrous.


If your originals are RAW files, then there's no problem. If your originals are JPEGs, then I'll repeat my original question:

If you don't save your original, then how can we be sure all you did is rotate?

~Terry
02/20/2007 04:41:46 PM · #25
Originally posted by Artyste:


There's a simple solution. Stop entering challenges.


Yeah nice.
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