Score 4.5-5.99 and need a critique? 2007/04/17

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/18/2007 02:16:50 AM · #1

I'll take 10 images posted here for critique. Mine is just opinion so take what you get with a grain of salt.

Message edited by author 2007-04-18 02:17:10.

daboardergirl

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

04/18/2007 02:18:46 AM · #2

Go for it. I am prepared for brutal honesty so tear it apart!

jonfrommk

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

04/18/2007 02:39:50 AM · #3

Steve....I so thought I was going to be able to leave you in peace this week...Spent virtually all week above 6 and then when the vote scrub came it dropped to 5.9769... So I am a bit :-( but generally :-)))))) at my own personal best!!!! Loved the fact that it also got so mant comments.

As ever your thoughts and comments will be welcomed

Jon

cirus

Nikon D300

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC for Nikon

04/18/2007 02:47:53 AM · #4

Hi Steve,

Would love some thoughts/comments on this.

Paul

Message edited by author 2007-04-18 02:55:41.

04/18/2007 02:58:47 AM · #5

Originally posted by daboardergirl:

Positives:
Generally speaking the composition is fine and so is the choice of BW.

Technicals:
Positioning the window toward the upper right rule of thirds intersection point is a good idea. Full range from black to white in tones is good and it has no over/under exposed areas. Sharpness of this image looks soft and is an important technical factor negatively affecting score. Perhaps there is more foreground grass included than needed.

The Challenge:
In free studies DPC voters look for a strong study of a topic that is both of interest to the photographer and to the viewer. Image content and interest is not strong in this composition and this is another major factor contributing to a lower score. The dark 'eyebrow' above the window is curiously interesting but it is not enough to carry the whole composition. Many voters assume that a small image size is an attempt to cover up a poor picture.

Suggestions:
Don't reduce the size of the image so much, you almost always want one side of the image to be a full 640 pixels. Sharper detail would help this image a lot. Adding a vignette for effect is worth considering. Also consider cropping out some of the foreground grass at the bottom. The grass is not interesting enough itself to justify so much space in the picture.

Overall, the composition is not that strong. Picking a different perspective/view of the subject building should be considered.

04/18/2007 03:23:24 AM · #6

Originally posted by jonfrommk:

Positives:
Very nicely done naturally impressionistic photograph. Unique and very interesting perspective. Great idea. Good technicals.

Technicals:
The composition is well balanced with the inclusion of the tall greenery in the background. Color, exposure and composition are all good. Reflections make good subjects for photographic studies.

The Challenge:
There are probably two factors that combined to hold this image below 6. One is the strong attachment of DPC voters toward sharply focused images. Though there are numerous notable exceptions the norm for this type image is to score lower. Though you have smartly included the bike tires in the water, it is not immediately apparent to quick voters what that is and many may have voted without understanding that. The guy in the center is NOT on a bicycle and the bicycles of the other two are small and that might have contributed to a slight DNMC reaction by some voters.

Suggestions:
For this challenge you should have either not included the one guy or had him on a bike, maybe yours. :) Though having the front tires and splash in the frame is a great idea it does not have as dramatic an effect as it might. Perhaps including more tire within the frame would increase its effect by making it more apparent to the viewer exactly what it is. Have the kids closer to the water to make their bikes more apparent to the casual voter would help to.

I do like this image a lot!

silverscreen

04/18/2007 03:44:09 AM · #7

Hi Steve,

I would like to get your opinion on this:

I had expected it to do better than 5.6437 in the free study.

Cheers,
Stefan

04/18/2007 03:50:55 AM · #8

Originally posted by cirus:

Positives:
Colorful composition that conveys a sense of a fair. Technicals are good.

Technicals:
Colors are vibrant, the very deep blue sky background is very nice. Well composed image. It does not have any distracting digital artifacts but might be very slightly soft focused, but that might just be me because I like ultrasharpened images. The angle on the sign is a little to 'edge on' making it unreadable and on the busy side. Almost looks overexposed on the white neon. It may not be but the image is bright in that area.

The Challenge:
Meets the challenge but that is never enough at DPC. An image needs something special to set it apart from the rest.

It scored about .2 below the DPC average. I gave it a 7 but that is the score I give an average DPC image. So basically, both the voters and I agree, we just express it a little differently.

Suggestions:
Try a slightly different angle further to the right of the sign so voters can better distinguish the neon lettering detail. Might not make it look so bright either.

A fair needs people and/or fairway action to provide a full effect and the lack of either in the composition might have subconciously contributed to giving it an average score. Something you could try is a taking long timed exposure when the background wheel is in motion to show a lot of rotation.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

04/18/2007 04:31:32 AM · #9

It actually did pretty well, I think.

alexgarcia

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

04/18/2007 04:35:59 AM · #10

Near the limit, but I would love one of your interesting comments. Thanks a lot in advance.

Álex.

HighNooner

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 15-85mm IS USM

04/18/2007 04:44:53 AM · #11

What do you think went wrong here?; Thanks

Message edited by author 2007-04-18 07:34:06.

jasonlprice

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

04/18/2007 12:30:33 PM · #12

What do you think about this?...and thanks in advance!

pamelasue

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/18/2007 12:32:34 PM · #13

... thanks, your insight is always appreciated!

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

04/18/2007 01:21:58 PM · #14

Originally posted by silverscreen:

Positives:
Including the single flying seagull and the ship are the best additions to the composition in support of the birds flocked on the rock. It has a minimalist feeling because of the framing.

Technicals:
Technicals are OK but not great. Generally speaking, the image feels a little flat contrast wise because of the large grey sky even though contrast is technically correct. It is oversharpened slightly on the flying bird and the post. The rest of the sharpening is very good. General lighting and exposure seem OK.

The Challenge:
In a free study the attention by voters is paid to the image itself moreso then anything else. DNMC issues, thank goodness, are minimized in free studies. Things like lighting, perspective, composition, depth of field, etcetera take on added value. They should in every challenge but in other types of challenges DNMC issues overshadow that.

The things in this image that DPC voters look for in a free study that it lacks is unique or specialize lighting, an eye catching topic or unique situation, or high drama and/or emotion. Voters do not know what they are looking for and could not find something strongly attractive that they could be attracted to in this particular image and that affected score.

Suggestions:
The sky is almost slat grey. Because of that making this image high key B&W where the sky becomes pure white is worth consideration. That makes sense both because of the content and the lighting. Color adds nothing to the composition. Because, as is, the sky adds very little of interest for viewers to like then low key B&W might be the way to go for added interest.

hihosilver

Nikon D200

04/18/2007 01:29:49 PM · #15

Steve, you always offer your time and knowledge so generously. I love to read your critiques!

colorcarnival

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark III

Olympus 45mm f1.8 M.Zuiko Digital Micro Four Thirds

04/18/2007 01:40:57 PM · #16

Maybe I can sneak in here?

If so - thanks!

If not, maybe next time!

silverscreen

04/18/2007 01:49:04 PM · #17

Thanks a lot for your critique Steve - it's really appreciated
(and I think it's right on the spot - now I can see how I could have improved my picture)

04/18/2007 02:02:04 PM · #18

Originally posted by Melethia:

It actually did pretty well, I think.

If you mean that 5.7 is a good score then I could not disagree more. But I am an American, not German, where standards may be different. In my world that is FAILURE. My personal opinion is that DPC voters, in general, vote exceptionally low by any cultural or country's value system. I could validate that opinion by German standards and will if you would like, but suspect you don't need that.

Positives:
Photography, as an art form, captures the mundane and presents it in a more interesting perspective. That is the strength of this image.

Technicals:
You mention the use of tone mapping of a RAW image etc. in the comments. These are things near and dear to my heart and generally contribute greatly to the overall quality of an image, but has NOTHING to do with whether or not an image is 'good'. What looks 'good' is 'good' regardless how it is achieved through technical means. What is 'bad' is 'bad' regardless what technical process was applied.

Generally speaking yours is a well done and technically 'good' image. Center composition works with the crop. Exposure is good, it has no over/under exposed areas. Lighting is OK but nothing special. Tonality is very good, sharpness OK.

The challenge:
Obviously meets the challenge. HOW something meets the challenge is more important than meeting it if scoring higher is your goal. You've composed the bike well, but maybe voters want more, like someone on the bike. Who knows?

Suggestions:
For me everything about this image, as conceived and composed, is good except sharpness. Sharpening more would be better, but that may be just me. Additions to make this image to add more interest to the average voter might be a consideration for a higher DPC score.

04/18/2007 02:04:15 PM · #19

Think I'm beyond my limit but will evaluate all images posted here, but no more.

Sorry

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

04/18/2007 02:05:53 PM · #20

Thanks, Steve. And by the way, I'm an American in Germany, but I don't think DPC standards differ from country to country. :-)

The image is soft intentionally - I kinda liked it that way, but I do tend to prefer soft overy ubersharp, which I do realize is not preferred by the DPC public at large. Very much appreciate your analysis and comments. You got pretty much exactly what I intended with this shot, so I do indeed consider it a success.

04/18/2007 02:21:04 PM · #21

Originally posted by Melethia:

Thanks, Steve. And by the way, I'm an American in Germany, but I don't think DPC standards differ from country to country. :-)

I respect your view, but beg to differ and I am fully willing to offer objective proof if you would like. :)

04/18/2007 02:41:59 PM · #22

Originally posted by alexgarcia:

Positives:
Certain technical features work well with this image. The diagonal composition, general color and depth of field are good.

Technicals:
As I said... DOF, color and diagonal composition are good. It is slightly oversharpened and that negatively affected voting. That is a critical feature of this particular image.

The Challenge:
Yes, it meets the challenge and the coloring on the chain also works well, but viewers sometimes want more in a 'chain' composition than what they see in yours and the sharpening issue affected their evaluation.

Suggestions:
Back off on the overall sharpening of the image, but not a lot... whatever that means. :) In technical terms if you duplicate a flattened image layer and apply sharpening to the duplicated layer and then adjust the opacity of the sharpening layer to make it 'correct' is a good approach to take. Outside chosing a different composition or subject, that is about the only thing you can do to improve this composition.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

04/18/2007 02:52:17 PM · #23

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by Melethia:
Thanks, Steve. And by the way, I'm an American in Germany, but I don't think DPC standards differ from country to country. :-)

I respect your view, but beg to differ and I am fully willing to offer objective proof if you would like. :)

Oh, I think I know what you mean. Has to do with "average" in test scores, etc, and how "average" is perceived. Just pointing out, though, that since I'm an American, I probably have a similar view to yours. I do agree that DPC generally votes "low" but as long as individual voters are consistent with what they vote as an "average", then it evens out.