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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Minimal Editing and Sharpening
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10/24/2007 06:48:19 PM · #1
How many times may you sharpen in Minimal... is 2 acceptable. I tried looking for this in the forums... but with no luck.... thanks
10/24/2007 06:53:39 PM · #2
1!

Edit: Nevermind, I guess I was wrong. The rules don't seem to say that.

Message edited by author 2007-10-24 18:54:42.
10/24/2007 06:54:51 PM · #3
As I read it, you can only resize once. But I saw no mention of how many times you can sharpen and when. I think this is one very small parameter we all have to play with.
10/24/2007 07:01:31 PM · #4
hmmmm yeah i wonder if SC is out there to clarify.....

please....
10/24/2007 07:21:50 PM · #5
You can sharpen, resize and then sharpen again, it has been done in previous minimal challenges.
10/24/2007 08:18:39 PM · #6
how bout...resize, sharpen, sharpen???
10/24/2007 08:29:07 PM · #7
AFAIK you can apply the Sharpen filter once.

My workflow is/was:

-Resize to 640x480
-Sharpen
-SaveAs

I used IrfanView so that I wouldn't have any settable parameters except JPEG quality and the reduction size.
10/24/2007 08:35:09 PM · #8
I believe you are wrong. The second place winner from the "Trees" challenge specifically states that they sharpened, resize, sharpened.
Trees Entry

I really feel we need authority to speak here and not opinion

Originally posted by GeneralE:

AFAIK you can apply the Sharpen filter once.

My workflow is/was:

-Resize to 640x480
-Sharpen
-SaveAs

I used IrfanView so that I wouldn't have any settable parameters except JPEG quality and the reduction size.


Message edited by author 2007-10-24 20:35:36.
10/24/2007 08:36:12 PM · #9
Well, I hope some others chime in then. Maybe you should submit a ticket ...
10/24/2007 08:38:43 PM · #10
bassbone you just gave the answer....that entry won a ribbon. It was validated, it was sharpened twice, so obviously you can sharpen more than once. You can only resize oncce though.
10/24/2007 08:41:17 PM · #11
Originally posted by KarenNfld:


You can only resize oncce though.


Yes, and we know that because scalvert had to DQ himself for resizing more than once, not to mention the fact it's stated clearly :-) But, I like the DQ reason better ... hehe

Message edited by author 2007-10-24 20:42:37.
10/24/2007 08:42:00 PM · #12
My only concern is that we have seen that there are very different interpretations of challenge rules and I am concerned that these interpretations may have changed since the last challenge using this "trial" edit set
Originally posted by KarenNfld:

bassbone you just gave the answer....that entry won a ribbon. It was validated, it was sharpened twice, so obviously you can sharpen more than once. You can only resize oncce though.
10/24/2007 08:43:00 PM · #13
I was under the impression that you can sharpen as much as you like but you couldn't customize it. That is you can't use unsharp mask, smart sharpen or anything that allows you to adjust settings. Only something that sharpens automatically upon clicking it is allowed. Although I seem to recall that using bicubic sharper wasn't allowed which can be used during resize but I may be wrong on that.
10/24/2007 08:43:38 PM · #14
From the original announcement of Minimal:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by levyj413:

could someone from the SC please clarify whether you can sharpen more than once? Scalvert said something indicating no, but the rules don't say anything about it.


Good point. That was in the behind-the-scenes discussions, but it doesn't look like it made it into the rules, so more than once should be fine.


Avoid resizing more than once, though. Trust me.
10/24/2007 10:42:29 PM · #15
The rules are crystal clear on this point, even if not always on every point.

Originally posted by minimal editing rules:

You may ... sharpen your entry using your editing software’s “sharpen” or equivalent option. The use of customizable sharpening tools, such as Unsharp Mask, is not allowed.


No limit on how many times you do it.

As opposed to resizing, where it says equally clearly:
Originally posted by minimal editing rules:

You may ... resize your entry once.


Edited: ah, I see Shannon already beat me to it. Think of it this way: the rules were clear enough on this point that I managed to convince an SC member he had it wrong. :)

Message edited by author 2007-10-24 22:47:05.
10/24/2007 11:11:22 PM · #16
Originally posted by levyj413:

Think of it this way: the rules were clear enough on this point that I managed to convince an SC member he had it wrong. :)

I guess so ... though I actually hope we correct this "ovrsight" the next time we get around to revising the rules -- I really think sharpening once is more in the "spirit" of this rule-set.

I think of it this way: sharpening once is the "minimal" amount you can do, and is only allowed (barely!) as a concession to the fact that the necessity of resizing the image for the purpose of submitting here introduces an unavoidable softening effect, which we'd be partially compensating for in a somewhat standardized way.



Not exactly photo-journalistic, eh?
10/24/2007 11:25:04 PM · #17
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Not exactly photo-journalistic, eh?


Ooooh. Lessee ... *adds on his fingers* You plus Shannon makes TWO SC members I've convinced. Woohoo!

FWIW, you'll get no argument outta me about changing it to make it more minimal. I'm all in favor of a ruleset that really gets to almost straight out of camera. I'm also in favor of keeping expert editing rules, too - I like having a range of options.
10/24/2007 11:27:02 PM · #18
Originally posted by GeneralE:


I guess so ... though I actually hope we correct this "ovrsight" the next time we get around to revising the rules -- I really think sharpening once is more in the "spirit" of this rule-set.


I agree with ya, but unlike other things that can be abused for positive effect, sharpen overdone is rarely pretty and voters are gonna hammer an image that does it too much.
10/24/2007 11:34:01 PM · #19
Originally posted by GeneralE:




Not exactly photo-journalistic, eh?


True but it's not like it would score well either. What bothers me more is being forced to have to use sharpening methods that have basically been depreciated. They produce lousy results like most automation tools do. Might as well just ban post sharpening altogether and just rely on a sharper lens, which is pretty much a requirement anyway for that rule set.

Message edited by author 2007-10-24 23:36:33.
10/24/2007 11:41:01 PM · #20
How about only allowing gaussian blur at a minimum of one pixel radius on the resized image. I think we should not only allow it but make it a requirement, so sharper lenses do not matter!
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