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01/12/2008 07:24:02 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Simms:
As much as the guy didn't ring my bells (I always found him a wee bit arrogant), you cant deny the guy s a massive talent, people like Zxaar & Superdave, well, you only need to look at their portfolios to realise its probably just jealousy.. The fact that people, from around the world, are knocking on his door and booking him left, right and center show that he is a recognised talent, and considering his age, I reckon he is a name that will be known around the world by the time he is 30, no shit, he will be up there with the greats.. I understand if you dont like his work, the fact is, he is a commercially successful photographer at the tender age of 18, travelling the world and getting paid to do it, something 99.9999999% of people on here would love to do, but will never do it.
Why do people have to always knock success, thats something I thought was reserved for us Brits..
Go Joey! just make sure you drop back in here every once in a while. |
I wonder if it's possible I will be as successful as Joey Lawrence when i'm 18 :P That's like a year and 3 months away. |
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01/12/2008 08:45:13 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Simms:
As much as the guy didn't ring my bells (I always found him a wee bit arrogant), you cant deny the guy s a massive talent, people like Zxaar & Superdave, well, you only need to look at their portfolios to realise its probably just jealousy.. The fact that people, from around the world, are knocking on his door and booking him left, right and center show that he is a recognised talent, and considering his age, I reckon he is a name that will be known around the world by the time he is 30, no shit, he will be up there with the greats.. I understand if you dont like his work, the fact is, he is a commercially successful photographer at the tender age of 18, travelling the world and getting paid to do it, something 99.9999999% of people on here would love to do, but will never do it.
Why do people have to always knock success, thats something I thought was reserved for us Brits..
Go Joey! just make sure you drop back in here every once in a while. |
There are many things:
1. It is not necessary to like someone whom all the world likes. I do not like people just because everyone else does. For example I do am impressed by photos you have produced.
2. I did look at his portfolio to come to that conclusion. I give importance to substance more than the postprocessing. I find most of his photo lacking on that part.
Here at dpc it is the thinking that since the photo is taken by Joey it has to be masterpiece. It is not the case.
For example, from his portfolio:
  
They are very nicely post processed. But still looks like as if bunch of guys have asked him to click their group photos. (look at their face expressions). Whats the substance in them. Sure good photos but hardly masterpieces.
3. As far as jealously goes. Well one becomes jealous if someone else has something that he covets. I do not even consider myself photographer and this is not my field.
Even if I were a photographer I would not dream of becoming Joey , I would rather think about become Henri Cartier-Bresson.
(Anyway I consider myself more of a painter and I would love to paint like Rembrandt, I am not far away from it (as far as knowledge goes). Watch next few years.
4. As far as his success at tiny age goes, my best wishes. I do not even know him there is no way I could think anything bad for him.
Message edited by author 2008-01-12 20:48:23. |
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01/12/2008 08:57:49 PM · #28 |
LOL!
Click their group photos?? LOL OMG really did you just say that? Look again at those that you picked. The lighting and locations took hours alone. If you are a painter I would think you would appreciate PP even more but I guess not. You are most certainly are entitled to your opinion, but I assure you the technical prowess associated with the shots you pointed out are much greater than all but a very few folks here at DPC. My point is simple. If you say Joey isn't really your style I have no issue and would not have commented on your comments. When you say there is no "substance in them" you have opened up technical aspects of a photo and therefore will catch hell from others. Not because you don't like Joey because I really don't care if you like him or not. However you indicate he lacks technique and that statement can and will be debated. Because in my opinion (which I am also entitled to) you are just plain wrong. |
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01/12/2008 09:03:56 PM · #29 |
I personally like his videos. They are pretty intense too. Very deep. I think he would go farther with those in his career. Get on the big screen!
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01/12/2008 09:14:32 PM · #30 |
...
Out of curiosity... what could be done to these shots to give them "substance?" |
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01/12/2008 09:18:43 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by option:
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Out of curiosity... what could be done to these shots to give them "substance?" |
Nothing. |
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01/12/2008 09:27:24 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I wonder if people have noticed Joey isn't around much anymore? I wonder if they have correlated this with the amount of joey-bashing that's going on around here?
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I generally attribute it to him being too busy to be here anymore, and the DPC rulsets being too constrictive for much of the work he likes to do.
Besides, I don't think Joey got this far giving a rats sweet behind about what the hell any of us think. |
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01/12/2008 09:33:48 PM · #33 |
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01/12/2008 09:41:04 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Mike_Adams:
LOL!
Click their group photos?? LOL OMG really did you just say that? Look again at those that you picked. The lighting and locations took hours alone. If you are a painter I would think you would appreciate PP even more but I guess not. You are most certainly are entitled to your opinion, but I assure you the technical prowess associated with the shots you pointed out are much greater than all but a very few folks here at DPC. My point is simple. If you say Joey isn't really your style I have no issue and would not have commented on your comments. When you say there is no "substance in them" you have opened up technical aspects of a photo and therefore will catch hell from others. Not because you don't like Joey because I really don't care if you like him or not. However you indicate he lacks technique and that statement can and will be debated. Because in my opinion (which I am also entitled to) you are just plain wrong. |
I appreciate PP, but before that I like to see what my unedited shot says. And this is what I mean by substance. I start with a question whether the photo without PP could stand or not. Does it have some meaning some purpose.
(I know it is difficult to say with in this black and white letters).
As you said you are entitled to your opinion (and which is very correct from your reference frame). And this is exactly my point that why should people at DPC want others to follow what they think is correct. |
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01/12/2008 09:42:19 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by jdannels:
There press photos, not really meant for substance. I wouldn't even say they don't have substance. I am just saying when you shoot for a magazine or band you have to deliver what your asked.
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I agree.
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01/12/2008 09:46:55 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
Originally posted by jdannels:
There press photos, not really meant for substance. I wouldn't even say they don't have substance. I am just saying when you shoot for a magazine or band you have to deliver what your asked.
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I agree. |
You didn't really answer the second question. Do the others have substance to your eye, or not? Have you been exposed to those works before? What do you think of them? |
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01/12/2008 09:48:11 PM · #37 |
| What your shot says is for you and for you only. You cannot tell me what your shot says as I do not have your frame of reference. And vice versa. My photography is my art. It is my contention that you can say his art is not my type of art and I do not enjoy it. For you to say it has some substance is to place value on his ART. You technically seem to not enjoy that form of PP but that does not mean you understand his art. My best example is this. Within your portfolio is a shot of the Taj. Its not my kind of art. There are multiple technical things about the photo that are not the way I would have done them. HOWEVER. I have no idea the impact and meaning that art that you created has on you and has on others. If I was asked I could give you reasons technically I would have done things differently in your shot. You have not asked me for it and therefore I will not provide it unless asked, but when you say that a shot of Joey's lacks "substance" you attempt to evaluate his art from a place that is not his. If its not your art fine say that and move on, but do not place a value on it of "substanceless." I cannot accept that you fully understand his mindset and the mindset of the subjects photographed to fully understand, and translate the worth of the shot. |
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01/12/2008 10:01:06 PM · #38 |
I think its great the Joey is getting somewhere with his work. Inspires other "younger" photographers like me to believe it can happen to them.
Great job Joey, im rooting for ya! |
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01/12/2008 10:49:44 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Mike_Adams:
What your shot says is for you and for you only. You cannot tell me what your shot says as I do not have your frame of reference. And vice versa. My photography is my art. It is my contention that you can say his art is not my type of art and I do not enjoy it. For you to say it has some substance is to place value on his ART. You technically seem to not enjoy that form of PP but that does not mean you understand his art. My best example is this. Within your portfolio is a shot of the Taj. Its not my kind of art. There are multiple technical things about the photo that are not the way I would have done them. HOWEVER. I have no idea the impact and meaning that art that you created has on you and has on others. If I was asked I could give you reasons technically I would have done things differently in your shot. You have not asked me for it and therefore I will not provide it unless asked, but when you say that a shot of Joey's lacks "substance" you attempt to evaluate his art from a place that is not his. If its not your art fine say that and move on, but do not place a value on it of "substanceless." I cannot accept that you fully understand his mindset and the mindset of the subjects photographed to fully understand, and translate the worth of the shot. |
A photographic language that nobody else speaks is useless. You can claim "But it's MY art!" all day long until your throat is raw from the formation of words, but if it speaks to no one but you it fails at the purpose of art, and that of all human communication. That purpose is to engage anothers mind, and to make them think, wonder, laugh, cry, question, rage or engage them into any reaction, even a purposely adverse reaction. But to claim that you've succeeded in your art simply because it exists if a fallacy of the highest order. |
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01/12/2008 11:01:10 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by zxaar:
Originally posted by jdannels:
There press photos, not really meant for substance. I wouldn't even say they don't have substance. I am just saying when you shoot for a magazine or band you have to deliver what your asked.
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I agree. |
You didn't really answer the second question. Do the others have substance to your eye, or not? Have you been exposed to those works before? What do you think of them? |
The reason I did not answer that question was that I do not really want to engage into lengthly debate or discussion.
My main point of all this discussion (which I failed to make very clear) is that should we suppose to like someones work just because everybody else thinks it is great. Why having unpopular opinion is considered wrong. Or why should I be wrong just because I do not agree with most of others.
And not liking someone work and saying it, is not a personal attack on him. If I disagree that Joey's work is great (as many of DPCers say), it is not personal attack.
About someone is great or not, no matter who you pick you would find that there are many people who do not find him great. Take even Gandhi, I know many people who do not think he is great. Just a matter of opinion, isn't it.
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01/13/2008 10:34:21 AM · #41 |
As I said, on a personal level I am pretty non-bothered by him as a person, his photos, whilst not something I would want to hang on my wall, are of a consistently high-standard and he is sort after by a lot of people willing to pay money - now, just because someone is commercially successful does not make them great artists (think of The Spice Girls), but I think Joey ticks more than just the $$$ boxes. His work is always (or always) seems to be of a very high standard, his processing is certainly his own style, you give me 50 shots and I could pick his out pretty much most of the time, so thats another massive achievement, to stand out amongst others. He goes out of his way in his own personal photography not just to take new shots, but to tell a story and discover the story behind the people and places (just look at his India stuff) and doesn't just take snapshots that are then saved by clever processing.
Dont get me wrong, I am not a massive JL fan by any means, but have massive respect for him and his work and his achievements and I know, if he carries on the way he has, he will one day be as good as me..
thats all .
LOL |
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01/13/2008 10:47:21 AM · #42 |
Joey is very fit and flexible, but I think I could still pin him in a wrestling match.
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01/13/2008 12:49:16 PM · #43 |
Great news about Joey. He is doing well for himself. He doesn't need for me to wish him well, although I do, because he is his own best luck.
I'm just popping in to add something to this thread because I've noticed if before and it is getting on my nerves. Has anyone(Bear) considered that Joey and quite a few of the photographers who have worked hard to become professional photographers are not around anymore. Correlating the fact that they are not here to them getting bashed is akin to saying I don't spend 8 hours at my high school anymore because it was tough and my friends were mean to me. Things change and people move on. Especially busy people. Please stop saying this one thing and I would be a very happy person.
ok, carry on. |
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01/13/2008 01:19:07 PM · #44 |
Or maybe its a case of them people get bored with the `popcorn` imagery we see on here in 99% of cases.. I am guilty on that charge, the stuff I take pleasure from the most and the stuff I am most proud of is my wedding photography, but that would get caned on here, sometimes you get a good wedding shot in here (Grigrigirls for example) but generally its not pretty enough for the membership paying public, so thats why most of us stick to producing the equivalent of pop-music images, they look nice but ultimately far too processed and manufactured to go any deeper than that.
But hey, thats the nature of this site, I am not knocking it as its what I am here for and what I enjoy, but releasing clever shots into this site is like releasing your 100 piece orchestra masterpiece into the music charts and wondering why it isn't doing well against the Britney's, Timberlakes and friends (although Britney aint doing too well these days).. Does it mean its a crap piece of music, no, ultimately it is probably a refined piece of artwork, but the masses dont want that, they want popcorn disposable images here and thats what we give them.
If Ansel Adams, Kevin Carter and co submitted to this site, they would get average scores at best. Sometimes its not all about the composition, the post-processing and the score you finally get, the true masters are judged on the journey they took to get to where they are, not just the final destination.
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01/14/2008 05:51:46 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Simms:
As much as the guy didn't ring my bells (I always found him a wee bit arrogant), you cant deny the guy s a massive talent, people like Zxaar & Superdave, well, you only need to look at their portfolios to realise its probably just jealousy.. The fact that people, from around the world, are knocking on his door and booking him left, right and center show that he is a recognised talent, and considering his age, I reckon he is a name that will be known around the world by the time he is 30, no shit, he will be up there with the greats.. I understand if you dont like his work, the fact is, he is a commercially successful photographer at the tender age of 18, travelling the world and getting paid to do it, something 99.9999999% of people on here would love to do, but will never do it.
Why do people have to always knock success, thats something I thought was reserved for us Brits..
Go Joey! just make sure you drop back in here every once in a while. |
Obviously reading comprehension is not your strong point. Someone remarked how Joey L was going to be the Michael Jordan of photography. Basically the person is saying he will be the greatest photographer ever. My point is he will never be the greatest or legendary. Nothing original or groundbreaking about his work. Jealousy has nothing to do with it. If you say Britney Spears sucks, does that mean your jealous? I have taken around 1,000 pics in my life and spend 2-3 hours a month taking pictures. I am not trying to be a professional photographer or anything. Just because you think he is good doesn't mean he is great or will be legendary. Your opinion is worth as much as mine. |
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01/14/2008 06:19:18 PM · #46 |
Certainly true that opinions are like assholes blah blah. I for one admire and respect Joey's work. He's doing stuff that I can see myself doing eventually with his travel shots and whatever else. And he's cool about it too. I've PMed him a few times through here and he's always been laid back, responsive and generally polite. Sure, he says 'dude' a lot but I like him.
These threads seem to pop up once every couple of months whenever a site runs a feature on Joey, and then people mention Dave Hill and how it isn't really photography, it's just photoshop and blah blah blah. Truth is, he's out there doing it, getting good money, a large following and being paid for doing something he loves.
Every credit to the guy.
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01/15/2008 08:43:33 PM · #47 |
Hey, look what I just found from an ad in Rangefinder:
Seminar with Joey Lawrence
Kind of expensive, but I'd be willing to bet this company is paying him a LOT of money... |
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01/15/2008 08:52:36 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Joey is very fit and flexible, but I think I could still pin him in a wrestling match. |
*runs off to warn Joey not to read this thread* I sure would hate for him to get that image stuck in his head. It could end his career.
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01/15/2008 09:15:21 PM · #49 |
I am surprised this thread isn't locked yet.
There a a few elite people here who garner ribbon after ribbon. You might agree with their style, but there is no denying that ALL these people are superb photographers.
However, what gets me is this should be about supporting the photographers here. You might not agree he'll be the next Jordan, but let time decide that. If all people are going to do is complain about people's success then maybe this isn't the site I thought it was...
Take pictures, have fun, and learn from others. |
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01/15/2008 09:18:49 PM · #50 |
| If only more 18 yr olds were as motivated and focused as him... Good on him I say |
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