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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Nit-Pickers, 1's and 2's and "Distracting"
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01/27/2009 12:16:01 PM · #1
Ok, I know that this is still about photography but, it\'s a bit of rant to vent some steam so, I figured this board was more fitting to put this on.

I don\'t know about anyone else but, I\'ve noticed a DRASTIC change in the feel of things in here over the past year or so. It really shows in the comments and the attitudes on the forums. There\'s almost a feeling of wanting to downgrade someone or someone\'s work. Anyone else feeling it?

So here\'s my \"rant\".

To the 1, 2 and 3 votes:

1, 2 and 3 scores are now being handed out like candy. Where once reserved for photos that were either DNMC\'s or offensive in some way, or generally a really horrible shot (ie: totally out of focus or looking like a shot that someone accidently took), they are now being handed out frequently.

To those who love to wait until rollover and simply sit with their finger on the 1 and 2 buttons, handing them out one after another to everyone and usually through a hundred or more photos...I say GET A LIFE! You\'re not even looking at the photos, you\'re out to simply destroy scores in some personal vendetta. What possible kick could you get out of it? You small minded person!

For those few who do this because your own scores are not where you want them to be...THINK about what you\'re doing to others. If you are ticked at your own score, STAY OUT OF VOTING in that challenge! Comment only. Misery doesn\'t love company and we\'re all in the same boat, subjected to the same crap from those I\'ve written about above. Do you like to be considered a Troll as well? That\'s what you are when you do it whether or not you are anonymous, you are still a Troll. Feel good?

To the Nit-Picks:

If we wanted, I\'m sure that we could ALL sit and find flaws with every single shot that goes into these challenges, including the ribboners. There is no photo that is perfect. If you are looking for flaws, you are going to find them. My question would have to be, why sit and try to find them? A lot of voters are making it very obvious that they are looking for flaws and not really looking aiming to be helpful and likely not even really looking at the good that the photo has it in!

Comments that include things like:

I wish there wasn\'t a wrinkle in the tablecloth because it\'s so distracting. (Get a life there\'s a whole photo around that wrinkle!)
If the wall had have been blue rather than yellow....(yeah, we should all re-paint the side of a building to suit our shots!)
There\'s a very slight tilt to the horizon. (What else did you notice in the shot? Did that ever so slight tilt nullify the rest of the shot?)
There\'s a shadow on the ground that\'s distracting (in basic editing where it can\'t be removed, or a pole casting a shadow and you couldn\'t have the pole taken down for your shot and editing it out would have been illegal!)
Too bad there\'s a building behind your subject (one that can\'t be gotten around because it\'s there!)
His thumbnail looks dirty....ewwwww. (What, you can only see that stained fingernail out of that entire shot? Sorry that life isn\'t perfect!)
Don\'t like the hair on his chest....ewwww. (Sorry, should have sent the subject for a body wax first...it\'s LIFE, get over it! Your hair phobia is going to weed out a whole pile of people in photos! Only models are waxed and most of us can\'t afford one for a virtual ribbon!)
Would have been better had that row of seats not been there. (Yeah, shoulda asked to have a row of seats removed from the stadium before shooting!)
The fur looks off. (That\'s the dog\'s coat! He was born that way! Get over it!)

The list of stupid, nit-picks goes on and on. The bottom line here is, these are not helpful comments. They are voters TRYING to find flaws in shots. If you think it\'s helpful to comment on something really insignificant, it\'s obvious that you are looking at shots with the sole intent of finding a flaw, not on looking at the shot and what was intended by the photographer. Get a Life. If your sole purpose is to find flaws in photos, you\'re missing some beautiful shots. Thankfully, you\'re not the editor for a newspaper because no shots would be put in the paper as they wouldn\'t be acceptable.

Lastly, in this category is the much overused word...DISTRACTING! If a piece of lint, a wrinkle in fabric, a tiny speck of light or a natural shadow somewhere can \"Distract\" you do much from the rest of the photo, you have a problem somewhere and should refrain from voting, period! Again, it\'s obvious that you are one of the ones who are looking simply for flaws and not much else. Either that, or you\'re a perfectionist and really need to focus on the idea that everyone else isn\'t!

As for the.....

Technical Hounds:

I know that this site is focused on technicals and stock shot looks for the most part. The more technically perfect a shot is, the higher the \"value\" it has. But, some of the greatest photos in this world, would be chewed apart by this type of thinking and never have been published. Equally important, you\'re missing out on some fabulous shots that have depth, meaning and brilliance in other ways. In this state of mind....one could photograph a garden rock or a rolled up piece of paper with technical perfection and have it score higher than the rare and fabulous action shot that someone else captured. What a shame. You\'re missing out on some really fabulous work and I\'m glad that these tech hounds are not editors in papers, magazines or anywhere for that matter or we\'d be missing out on some fabulous photos in this world!

Lastly....

This site is SUBJECTIVE...ART is subjective. It has to be. However, for those who are only able to see a certain style and \"look\" and vote that as a high score and the rest down because they don\'t have that \"look\", you have been \"tainted\" by DPC and it\'s \"look\". You are missing out on a world of great photos. Once in DPC for long enough, one can attain an eye for a certain style/look and anything outside of it, will be voted down. Anyone who has been here for a bit of time, can likely go through a couple of hundred shots and pick out \"the winners\" because those are the ones that have \"the look\". The top 10 are chosen by that \"look\" right off the bat because the eye has been trained to look for that type of thing. Subconsciously or consciously, in striving to achieve top photos in DPC, we\'ve become literally TRAINED into seeing that \"look\". It\'s a shame because what does well in here, won\'t cut the mustard in other venues in the photography world. Those types of photos may do well in stock shot sites, but a magazine editor or a newspaper editor or even a photogaphy firm, wouldn\'t give these shots the time of day. It\'s a shame because no other style of photography will ever truly be appreciated by \"the hard core DPC\'ers\". They\'ve been \"tainted\". This leads me to...

The Cherry Pickers:

These are the ones who have that \"eye\" for the \"DPC LOOK\" and will go through the thumbnails, quickly searching for those photos that fit that realm. The rest are bypassed as \"junk\" and that is where the flaws and nit-picks will be found and marked with an incredibly low score. It\'s akin to throwing out the baby with the bath water!

When I hear that people have gone to great lengths to get a photograph and see that it\'s been torn to shreds by \"the geniuses\" with these nit-picks, it\'s hard to sit there and see it happen. Thus, my rant.

Ok, I know that I\'m going to get pounded on by the DPC Brown Noses and Hardcores. But, warning...you\'ll just be proving my rant right by pounding on me for my opinion because you\'ll be defending this type of thinking.

Vented....done.

01/27/2009 12:28:32 PM · #2
i think i might be a nit picker:(
01/27/2009 12:37:45 PM · #3
I see quite a few comments that people left that were trying to be helpful and maybe that's why your shot scored low, but it seems that you only mark helpful when it's someone who says they love your shot.

In these two you have good and bad comments but the only ones marked helpful are the ones who agree with you or "understand" what you were working with.






Message edited by author 2009-01-27 12:39:01.
01/27/2009 12:39:07 PM · #4
I think a lot of these types of comments have to do with a person's learning process, comments they have received on their photos some time earlier, and the desire to apply those comments to someone else's photo, however inapplicable the comment may be.

For instance, Joe Schmoe learned about the rule of thirds yesterday, so he's looking through this challenge thinking that all entries must use this rule or they're wrong. I've probably done the same thing. Heck, I had a comment on my last free study entry, a landscape, commenting on the lack of a focal point... a landscape.

I chalk it up to the learning process.
01/27/2009 12:49:45 PM · #5
I see your point and agree somewhat to all that you said.

Originally posted by PhotoInterest:



To the Nit-Picks:

If we wanted, I\'m sure that we could ALL sit and find flaws with every single shot that goes into these challenges, including the ribboners. There is no photo that is perfect. If you are looking for flaws, you are going to find them. My question would have to be, why sit and try to find them? A lot of voters are making it very obvious that they are looking for flaws and not really looking aiming to be helpful and likely not even really looking at the good that the photo has it in!

C


Don't leave a comment, people complain, leave a comment, people complain. COMMENTER==Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I guess I fall in the "nit-picks" category too. I figure most people want comments and how to improve their images, so I try to do that and sometimes it's a very minor thing that didn't effect how I scored the image.
01/27/2009 01:08:08 PM · #6
Yesterday I voted on "glasses", and ended up giving out a fairly low average vote, for me at least. I was curious to see what was going on in that challenge, and so read the current challenge thread on the scores. There, many people complained about the low scores & lack of comments. I felt guilty, and so went through & commented on a bunch, particularly the ones I scored the lowest. I always feel badly about doing that, as I'm certainly no expert. However, I try to politely explain why I voted the way I did, knowing that I would want feedback from someone who gave me a lower score (btw, my lowest vote was a 4, and there weren't that many of those). Maybe my feedback isn't the best, but at least it's an explanation of my vote.

Today, I find yet another thread whining about people's voting pattern or the way they comment. I just don't get it. This is the internet, people! If you don't want certain types of comments or votes, just show your pictures to your friends & family, or hold it up to a mirror & talk to yourself.

Vented. Done.
01/27/2009 01:08:31 PM · #7
I don’t know if I’m a DPC Brown Nose or a Hardcore but I’ll take a shot at countering your opinion (which by the way you are fully entitled to).

You should really look at every comment as a gift. Some are true gems and others you might be inclined to re-gift to someone else, but each is a gift.

I think where you stray is that you have a narrow view of what the commenter’s motive might actually be. Perhaps the nit picks are saying “this picture would be even better if…” not “your picture is flawed because of…” There are many motives for leaving a comment and not all of them are negative.

As a community we often complain that voters don’t take the time to really evaluate a shot. The same could be said for comments. Take the time to see if there is some value to what the commenter said. Is there’s a tid-bit you overlooked that will make your next picture even better. If you find some value in their comment then learn from it. If you don’t, then move on and be happy that you at least inspired them leave their thoughts with you.
01/27/2009 01:09:03 PM · #8
I've been at the point for a few years where I don't wish to have ANY comments on my Challenge entries, at all.

There's an automatic assumption that people are looking to be educated by the masses when they enter an image in a Challenge but in some cases it couldn't be further from the entrants mind.

Maybe we need a no comments button?

"The heads in the upper right kept pulling my eye up there. This effect for me was exacerbated the fact that it's the brightest part of the image. It also seems like there's another face shape in the right foreground. So my eye kind of darts there as well.
There's generally a lot going on in the image: the faces, the text, the sharp diagonal of the railing"

That's part of a comment I received that did have some positive elements. I should add (though, not in this clip) where I thought this person parachuted a ton of useless, bullshit, baggage all over my shot NONE of which I found pertinent or valuable.

It's mostly noob/beginner nonsense that as Slip said people pick up when they join the site. I used to regurgitate the same stuff when I joined, back when I thought I knew something about photography. Foolishness when I look back on it and even a little embarassing. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Again, I vote for a No Comments Button.

Message edited by author 2009-01-27 13:32:16.
01/27/2009 01:34:30 PM · #9
Personally, I appreciate the nitpicks. I may not LIKE them, but they do help me be aware that I have to look beyond my main subject. It's easy, when you're less experienced and still struggling with every technical aspect of a shot, to focus on one thing and miss the wrinkled background or the tilted horizon or the awkwardly cropped hand. And these things DO distract and detract.

That said, I always wish that there were more to many of the comments than just critisms. I appreciate that when one is voting on hundreds of shots a week there's just not time for long comments on each, and I guess people figure that you'll know that the rest of the shot is fine if they don't say otherwise, but it's still nice (and valuable) to hear what's right with it as well. I do try to give both, but it doesn't always happen.

Regarding the importance placed on technicals; We have such a range of skill levels and longrange goals here, and when voting we can't tell if we're voting for someone who hopes to have their own portrait studio some day, produce fine art for galleries, work in photojournalism or simply shoot for their own pleasure. We don't know if they're already a pro or a total beginner. All these factors would produce different critiques if we only knew which apply, but we don't. All we can do is work with what we see before us, and we tend to start with the lowest common denominator, technicals. No matter what craft, learning how to properly use your tools is vital, and that's what most comments address.

Troll votes... Well, I do believe in trolls. But there IS another possible explanation for some of them. The voting rules do tell us to use the whole scale, so if someone votes on a true curve he WILL vote 1s and 2s as well as 9s and 10s. His 10 won't mean a totally perfect shot and his 1 won't mean a totally terrible shot, but just his opinion of the best and worst for THAT CHALLENGE. And as long as he's consistant his voting method is perfectly valid, much as we hate seeing those low votes.

Yeah, I often get discouraged here, between the scores and the comments, but I have learned more here than I ever imagined possible. I belong to another site that I post to when I feel the need for an ego-boost. I know there I'll only get nice comments. I haven't learned a thing there, but it serves a valuable purpose as well, as it keeps me from chucking it all in sometimes. :)

There, that's my vent done too :)
01/27/2009 01:37:41 PM · #10
If you are expecting people to give you a pass because you couldn't find a way to photograph something without a certain background, wall color, subject matter, etc., you are in for a long string a frustration here.

And if you think a photo is special in spite of that, think again.

All the elements in a photo combine to make it work or not. You can't expect people to ignore obvious elements and say, "Oh well, I know he/she didn't want these things there, so here's a 9 for effort."

Yes, some people do have odd voting philosophies. It's been that way ever since I've known about DPC. But that tends to take care of itself.

Have you ever complained about getting a 9 or 10 when your entry didn't really deserve it? Same thing applies, if someone gives out only 9s and 10s without regard for the merit, that is just as bad as someone giving out 1s and 2s for the same reason.
01/27/2009 01:42:46 PM · #11
Originally posted by BeeCee:

Personally, I appreciate the nitpicks. I may not LIKE them, but they do help me be aware that I have to look beyond my main subject. It's easy, when you're less experienced and still struggling with every technical aspect of a shot, to focus on one thing and miss the wrinkled background or the tilted horizon or the awkwardly cropped hand. And these things DO distract and detract.

There, that's my vent done too :)


I don't agree with the "these things DO distract" part. Quite often they don't distract in the slightest. They DO if you are trained to look for distractions or ar hyper-sensitized to little flaws. And it's done here to a fault even to the point where great photographers who shoot with great intent get junked on.

I walk all over my town and see hundreds upon hindreds of commercial images that that people here would rip apart, missing the point or essence of the shot. Completely overlooking, originality, style, substance for any bullshit reason they can find.

Message edited by author 2009-01-27 13:43:14.
01/27/2009 01:47:06 PM · #12
Originally posted by scarbrd:

If you are expecting people to give you a pass because you couldn't find a way to photograph something without a certain background, wall color, subject matter, etc., you are in for a long string a frustration here.

And if you think a photo is special in spite of that, think again.

All the elements in a photo combine to make it work or not. You can't expect people to ignore obvious elements and say, "Oh well, I know he/she didn't want these things there, so here's a 9 for effort."

Yes, some people do have odd voting philosophies. It's been that way ever since I've known about DPC. But that tends to take care of itself.

Have you ever complained about getting a 9 or 10 when your entry didn't really deserve it? Same thing applies, if someone gives out only 9s and 10s without regard for the merit, that is just as bad as someone giving out 1s and 2s for the same reason.


I agree if you are trying to create images that appeal to the Britney Spears/MTV crowd. But what if you are not?

Should people that are not in that zone, simply not bother to enter Challenges? That's what I'm hearing.
01/27/2009 01:54:27 PM · #13
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Personally, I appreciate the nitpicks. I may not LIKE them, but they do help me be aware that I have to look beyond my main subject. It's easy, when you're less experienced and still struggling with every technical aspect of a shot, to focus on one thing and miss the wrinkled background or the tilted horizon or the awkwardly cropped hand. And these things DO distract and detract.

There, that's my vent done too :)


I don't agree with the "these things DO distract" part. Quite often they don't distract in the slightest. They DO if you are trained to look for distractions or ar hyper-sensitized to little flaws. And it's done here to a fault even to the point where great photographers who shoot with great intent get junked on.

I walk all over my town and see hundreds upon hindreds of commercial images that that people here would rip apart, missing the point or essence of the shot. Completely overlooking, originality, style, substance for any bullshit reason they can find.


Okay, I should have said "MAY" rather than "DO", and I totally agree with your last paragraph. But sometimes I've had a shot that just didn't look/feel right and I couldn't figure out why. The "nitpickers" here have helped me put my finger on it and learn for next time. But then again, I'm a noob, so I need all the help I can get.
01/27/2009 01:58:18 PM · #14
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by scarbrd:

If you are expecting people to give you a pass because you couldn't find a way to photograph something without a certain background, wall color, subject matter, etc., you are in for a long string a frustration here.

And if you think a photo is special in spite of that, think again.

All the elements in a photo combine to make it work or not. You can't expect people to ignore obvious elements and say, "Oh well, I know he/she didn't want these things there, so here's a 9 for effort."

Yes, some people do have odd voting philosophies. It's been that way ever since I've known about DPC. But that tends to take care of itself.

Have you ever complained about getting a 9 or 10 when your entry didn't really deserve it? Same thing applies, if someone gives out only 9s and 10s without regard for the merit, that is just as bad as someone giving out 1s and 2s for the same reason.


I agree if you are trying to create images that appeal to the Britney Spears/MTV crowd. But what if you are not?

Should people that are not in that zone, simply not bother to enter Challenges? That's what I'm hearing.


Not at all. Enter every challenge you can. I did that when I first got here.

I'm just saying you should manage your expectations when it comes to DPC voting.

If you expect people to ignore elements of your entry for whatever reason and expect they find the gem in your entry as you have, you might be disapointed.

Take DPC for what it is, try to learn from it. Develop your style and stive to communicate your message through your pictures.

In the communication process, when something is misunderstood it is usually the fault of the one trying to communicate, not the one trying to understand.
01/27/2009 02:10:10 PM · #15
Originally posted by scarbrd:



Not at all. Enter every challenge you can. I did that when I first got here.

I'm just saying you should manage your expectations when it comes to DPC voting.

If you expect people to ignore elements of your entry for whatever reason and expect they find the gem in your entry as you have, you might be disapointed.

Take DPC for what it is, try to learn from it. Develop your style and stive to communicate your message through your pictures.

In the communication process, when something is misunderstood it is usually the fault of the one trying to communicate, not the one trying to understand.


I do know what you're saying. I'm just trying to make a few point and show a different way of thinking.



The irony is that that little image above (please ignore the obnoxiously huge border for the moment)is actually a commercially viable piece of work. I see so much of that type of work being used for trendy cutting edge products in niche magazines, Bus Stop Ads etc.

My main concern and an issue I had to fight while listenting to criticism, mosty DPC centric, was getting it ALL out of my head.

It's really quite stifling, if you do wish to be photographically creative. I'm not pissing on good clean craft but good or great images go far deeper and occasioanlly rely on other elements (not clean technique) to get them there.

Not enough people understand that and that dissappoints me.

Message edited by author 2009-01-27 14:18:28.
01/27/2009 02:17:20 PM · #16
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Personally, I appreciate the nitpicks. I may not LIKE them, but they do help me be aware that I have to look beyond my main subject. It's easy, when you're less experienced and still struggling with every technical aspect of a shot, to focus on one thing and miss the wrinkled background or the tilted horizon or the awkwardly cropped hand. And these things DO distract and detract.

There, that's my vent done too :)


I don't agree with the "these things DO distract" part. Quite often they don't distract in the slightest. They DO if you are trained to look for distractions or ar hyper-sensitized to little flaws. And it's done here to a fault even to the point where great photographers who shoot with great intent get junked on.

I walk all over my town and see hundreds upon hindreds of commercial images that that people here would rip apart, missing the point or essence of the shot. Completely overlooking, originality, style, substance for any bullshit reason they can find.


It is my opinion that if you are at a point in your photography where you absolutely cannot accept (or outright ignore) the commenting that occurs on this site due to the vast differences of all involved, that it just might be time to take your work elsewhere. (And I really don't mean that in a negative way, or a "go away, we don't want you" way or anything of that nature. I'm just trying to be honest. You sound like you expect something that DPC can never offer, and it's like anything else in life. If it's not working for you, time to either find somewhere/something that does, or learn to work within the parameters that are there that simply aren't going to change.)

Message edited by author 2009-01-27 14:22:24.
01/27/2009 02:21:38 PM · #17
I find practically every nit-picky comment I get to be useful, but not because the advice in the comment tells me how to improve my photo. Rather, I treat each comment I receive as the reason that the commenter voted the way he did, and I like to know that. I might think the commenter's opinion is idiotic or juvenile or pick-your-own-adjective, but at least I know where his vote is coming from. This is valuable information when one is putting one's work out there for all to see.
01/27/2009 02:22:15 PM · #18
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Personally, I appreciate the nitpicks. I may not LIKE them, but they do help me be aware that I have to look beyond my main subject. It's easy, when you're less experienced and still struggling with every technical aspect of a shot, to focus on one thing and miss the wrinkled background or the tilted horizon or the awkwardly cropped hand. And these things DO distract and detract.

There, that's my vent done too :)


I don't agree with the "these things DO distract" part. Quite often they don't distract in the slightest. They DO if you are trained to look for distractions or ar hyper-sensitized to little flaws. And it's done here to a fault even to the point where great photographers who shoot with great intent get junked on.

I walk all over my town and see hundreds upon hindreds of commercial images that that people here would rip apart, missing the point or essence of the shot. Completely overlooking, originality, style, substance for any bullshit reason they can find.


It is my opinion that if you are at a point in your photography where you absolutely cannot accept (or outright ignore) the commenting that occurs on this site due to the vast differences of all involved, that it just might be time to take your work elsewhere.


Nah, I'm just going to stop commenting. What's the point?

edit to fix quote

Message edited by author 2009-01-27 14:22:44.
01/27/2009 02:22:37 PM · #19
Perhaps some of the nit-picking or voting can be attributed to something like this: a recent thread had one person arguing that people do not take enough time to view a picture before voting/commenting/both and they were upset by this - produces bad or not relevant comments, lower votes, etc. However, if you view this person's comments given for a recent challenge, they voted and commented on all entries in under 7 minutes based on the time stamps from the first comment and the last comment (they commented on 100%) So, I did the math and figured out they spent less than 5 seconds on each image...to vote and comment.

I suppose what I am saying is this: obviously people don't realize how transparent some things are on this site; people do not always do as they say in the forums; 'speed voting/commenting' just to get it done or go in some thread and boast they commented 100% does happen; a challenge entry is ALWAYS liked more by the photographer than it is by the voters; take what you can from the comments you get and don't complain. Just ignore the rest.

All these things have been brought up dozens of times and obviously it does no good because, well, people are people. Shoot for yourself, if it fits a challenge, fine, if not it makes no difference since you took the shot for YOU and not for US. As you - the OP - said, get a life! If it bothers you that much perhaps this is not the place for you to be. A rant will not now, as in the past it hasn't and in the future it probably won't, change anything.

Message edited by author 2009-01-27 14:24:14.
01/27/2009 02:27:11 PM · #20
Originally posted by K10DGuy:



It is my opinion that if you are at a point in your photography where you absolutely cannot accept (or outright ignore) the commenting that occurs on this site due to the vast differences of all involved, that it just might be time to take your work elsewhere.


I can certainly accept criticism but I would prefer it to be from an educated viewer.

Are you saying that people here aren't at a point of educating themselves beyond a Stock mentality and that any image placed on this site is automatically demanding technical critique?

I assume members searching for higher ground here on DPC shouldn't bother. If someone such as myslef hope for a higher level of discourse we should forget it and move on?

My memberships up in a month or so...maybe you're right.

eta: I've never been one that's ever layed down and complacently accepted a situation. Whether it's DPC or my government, I'll make my points. Sorry if people find it distasteful or useless but there's always higher ground...let's hope.

Message edited by author 2009-01-27 14:36:50.
01/27/2009 02:30:31 PM · #21
...
Originally posted by pawdrix:



I do know what you're saying. I'm just trying to make a few point and show a different way of thinking.



The irony is that that little image above (please ignore the obnoxiously huge border for the moment)is actually a commercially viable piece of work. I see so much of that type of work being used for trendy cutting edge products in niche magazines, Bus Stop Ads etc.

My main concern and an issue I had to fight while listenting to criticism, mosty DPC centric, was getting it ALL out of my head.

It's really quite stifling, if you do wish to be photographically creative. I'm not pissing on good clean craft but good or great images go far deeper and occasioanlly rely on other elements (not clean technique) to get them there.

Not enough people understand that and that dissappoints me.


But I don't understand your point with this image (which, btw, is lovely). It wasn't in a challenge, but you got 3 favs & all positive reviews. Are you suggesting that it woudln't do well in a challenge? I wouldn't be sure about that. Or that the comments weren't helpful? Or that you wouldn't want someone nitpicking it? Or ... hmmm. I just don't get the point I guess.

Edited to add another possibility

Message edited by author 2009-01-27 14:33:13.
01/27/2009 02:43:28 PM · #22
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:



It is my opinion that if you are at a point in your photography where you absolutely cannot accept (or outright ignore) the commenting that occurs on this site due to the vast differences of all involved, that it just might be time to take your work elsewhere.


I can certainly accept criticism but I would prefer it to be from an educated viewer.

Are you saying that people here aren't at a point of educating themselves beyond a Stock mentality and that any image placed on this site is automatically demanding technical critique?

I assume members searching for higher ground here on DPC shouldn't bother. If someone such as myslef hope for a higher level of discourse we should forget it and move on?

My memberships up in a month or so...maybe you're right.


I think that we are a part of a very diverse, culturally and otherwise, website with people of all creeds and levels, and that we should learn to take the good and take the bad as a part of it. As for saying that any image place on this site is automatically demanding technical critique? Hrm, demanding, no, but open for? Yes. That's what this site is. It's what it always has been. There are plenty of ways to find higher ground and level of discourse here, and many people have it and find it. That doesn't mean that just outright calling out people for leaving comments you don't enjoy is good either.

There's only one way to lift the level of discourse and education, and that's to become a teacher. Just sitting back and whining and hoping it happens automatically isn't helping anyone. It also doesn't help to believe that your own photography is above critique. It's your right to believe that that photograph that sells to a magazine is untouchable, but if you put it out there to a wider general audience, it becomes open season. Period. Not saying that you are like this completely, but I get that feeling from your posts a lot.

I don't know what else to really tell you, but like someone above me said, even a comment like "That crack in the wall is very distracting" helps me in a lot of ways AS PERTAINING TO THE IMMEDIATE NATURE of the challenges and the reason I'm submitting to this website in the first place, and that reason is very simple, competition. I am here to learn to score well in a mass market. If that means having to deal with things that I wouldn't even think about dealing with on a photo that is going up in a gallery, or a photo I'm selling to a newspaper, or a photo that I'm hanging on Aunt Linda's wall, then so be it. If that means listening to people that for 90% of my outside DPC photography life, I wouldn't give the time of day to, so be it.

There's a vast world of photography out there, and DPC itself is a vast melting-pot of photography and photographers. Like Posthumous and many others, it's about finding your own niche within it, but letting go enough to play the game as well. C'est la vie and all that. Instead of trying to change the entire site to your liking, hammer out a small part of it for yourself and let the rest roll off you.

Or continue to believe that your way of looking at things is the only way of looking at things and continually be disappointed and bitter :)
01/27/2009 02:45:58 PM · #23
Originally posted by pawdrix:


It's really quite stifling, if you do wish to be photographically creative. I'm not pissing on good clean craft but good or great images go far deeper and occasioanlly rely on other elements (not clean technique) to get them there.

Not enough people understand that and that dissappoints me.


I know exactly what you mean. I left DPC for a year to get out of the "Must score high and submit DPC friendly images" mentality. I just came back this month and haven't scored the greatest but my brain processes it so differently now that I'm much happier. I couldn't care less about scores, or nit-piks or advice on how to shoot and process - when I submit something I already know its goods and bads. I even know the exact comments I will get and predict them almost word for word, which amuses me endlessly. I am coming here, and submitting to challenges, solely because once in a while I might come across someone who is completely in tune with my view of the world that I don't want to pass up the opportunity.

Just shrug it off and grin. It is worth it just on the chance that you might meet someone you really are better off knowing.
01/27/2009 02:55:56 PM · #24
Originally posted by Bebe:

...

But I don't understand your point with this image (which, btw, is lovely). It wasn't in a challenge, but you got 3 favs & all positive reviews. Are you suggesting that it woudln't do well in a challenge? I wouldn't be sure about that. Or that the comments weren't helpful? Or that you wouldn't want someone nitpicking it? Or ... hmmm. I just don't get the point I guess.

Edited to add another possibility


Sorry. My point was that it has commercial potential even though it's wickedly rough in many ways.

I love the fact that it has only positive comments but for different reasons. If it were entered in a Challenge it would have been slammed to oblivion for "technical reasons" which have little relevance, if any to the shot.

Karma-I have no issue with comments just the super thick, heavy hand with which people toss them around. It's never too much to ask people to think before they speak. Or is it?
01/27/2009 02:57:23 PM · #25
Originally posted by pawdrix:

I can certainly accept criticism but I would prefer it to be from an educated viewer.

I hope, the next time you have a photo published, that you have enough time to stand at the newsrack and screen the credentials of each potential magazine purchaser ...
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