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02/12/2009 05:31:54 PM · #1 |
| Genuine mid to high scoring entrants are frustrated by others who, in every challenge it seems, burst their bubbles by throwing in a 1 or 2 vote without explanation. My suggestion is that the DPC site make it mandatory to leave a comment if you wish to give a 1 or 2 vote. In other words you cannot leave the low vote without filling in the comment box before moving on to the next entry. This may deter the people wishing to boost their own score or from just being mean and not caring about the challenge submissions at all. On the other hand, if you are giving a 1 or 2 vote because the picture is of a low standard tell the person why, after all, we are all here to better ourselves as photographers, aren't we? |
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02/12/2009 05:35:42 PM · #2 |
| Some photographers post complete rubbish just for the hell of it. I've just gone through 95% of the apple challenge with some real time wasters posing for participants. Why should I waste my time on elaborating when they obviously don't give a damn on trying to make at least a stab at doing a half-decent pic? |
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02/12/2009 05:37:30 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by olbol:
Some photographers post complete rubbish just for the hell of it. I've just gone through 95% of the apple challenge with some real time wasters posing for participants. Why should I waste my time on elaborating when they obviously don't give a damn on trying to make at least a stab at doing a half-decent pic? |
Lol, well put. |
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02/12/2009 05:38:11 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by olbol:
Some photographers post complete rubbish just for the hell of it. I've just gone through 95% of the apple challenge with some real time wasters posing for participants. Why should I waste my time on elaborating when they obviously don't give a damn on trying to make at least a stab at doing a half-decent pic? |
Fair point but why bother giving the obvious rubbish a vote at all? |
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02/12/2009 05:44:54 PM · #5 |
| To judge their half-arsed approach, I guess, and to give them the chance to be valued by the rest of the society. Having 2000 votes at 2 will probably send a clearer message. See, sometimes, *everything* about a picture is just wrong, to the point of having *nothing* in common with the theme. Commenting on this would take either a page of text or else a plain shrug - unfit. |
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02/12/2009 05:47:17 PM · #6 |
Well....they tried the pop-up box if you posted a three or less to please leave a comment.....it didn't work an annoyed people.
If you make it mandatory, then you'll just get the lowest vote that can be assigned that you won't have to leave a comment.
If you'd search the archives, you'd find that this subject has been beaten to death......you just cannot force people to tell you why they left you a low score.
The best thing is to just let it roll off.
As far as 95% of the entries being rubbish????
That's pretty harsh.
Not everyone's got the incredible talent as you, so ease up a little......and you don't have to vote or comment if you feel the work is so obviously beneath you.
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02/12/2009 05:49:46 PM · #7 |
As far as 95% of the entries being rubbish????
I meant, I went through 95% and some of those were very bad. Not even 5% of uber-rubish, though. Although my overall vote tends to be quite low. |
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02/12/2009 05:50:42 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by olbol:
To judge their half-arsed approach, I guess, and to give them the chance to be valued by the rest of the society. Having 2000 votes at 2 will probably send a clearer message. See, sometimes, *everything* about a picture is just wrong, to the point of having *nothing* in common with the theme. Commenting on this would take either a page of text or else a plain shrug - unfit. |
Or perhaps that was their best effort at the challenge theme.
You *could* offer up helpful advice and/or commentary that they may improve.
Or you could continue to be snide, sarcastic, and denigrate their work.
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02/12/2009 05:52:53 PM · #9 |
Or you could continue to be snide, sarcastic, and denigrate their work.
See above. I tend not to comment precisely to avoid being overly caustic. And, to reiterate, some of the images are quite beyond critique. |
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02/12/2009 05:53:33 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Or you could continue to be snide, sarcastic, and denigrate their work. |
Come on man. There's enough senseless, unwarranted back patting on the site and a little sarcastic, denigration keeps things in balance. A little ying for the yang. |
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02/12/2009 05:56:54 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by olbol:
Some photographers post complete rubbish just for the hell of it. I've just gone through 95% of the apple challenge with some real time wasters posing for participants. Why should I waste my time on elaborating when they obviously don't give a damn on trying to make at least a stab at doing a half-decent pic? |
What may be complete rubbish just for the hell of it to YOU, may be an honest effort from a complete beginner that really doesn't know much better. You don't know that during voting. Period. It's best to try and avoid blanket statements, especially if said statement is trending toward negativity for negativity's sake.
The only photos that are obviously done without any effort are the ones that specifically SAY so in the photographer's comments, and that is something you can only see post-challenge.
We all know what is said about the word 'assume'. |
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02/12/2009 05:57:11 PM · #12 |
| Know what? Never occurred to me before, but I will come back to the apple competition after the vote, will look up some of the guys I marked at 1 or 2 (3 and 19 entries respectively, yeah, a bit more than advertised 5%) and see what they offered for other titles. If I see same half-arsed approach, I will feel proven, otherwise, I'll try to be more cautious. |
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02/12/2009 05:57:17 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by olbol:
To judge their half-arsed approach, I guess, and to give them the chance to be valued by the rest of the society. Having 2000 votes at 2 will probably send a clearer message. See, sometimes, *everything* about a picture is just wrong, to the point of having *nothing* in common with the theme. Commenting on this would take either a page of text or else a plain shrug - unfit. |
Or perhaps that was their best effort at the challenge theme.
You *could* offer up helpful advice and/or commentary that they may improve.
Or you could continue to be snide, sarcastic, and denigrate their work. |
Points taken on board Jeb.
It was only a suggestion as, in my short time here this
is one glaring anomaly of this otherwise helpful site.
Hear, hear, regarding your last statement. |
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02/12/2009 05:58:20 PM · #14 |
comment removed, on second thought.
Message edited by author 2009-02-12 17:58:54. |
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02/12/2009 05:58:32 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Or you could continue to be snide, sarcastic, and denigrate their work. |
Originally posted by violinist123:
Come on man. There's enough senseless, unwarranted back patting on the site and a little sarcastic, denigration keeps things in balance. A little ying for the yang. |
I guess I like to try to put a little positive critique forth if I'm going to say anything about an image.......I leave my mouthiness for the Rants......8>)
My first challenge was abysmal......I shudder to see how bad I was.
But in a not too terribly long time, I've learned to do some passable work, and it has been mostly due to people's willingness to take time with me and constructively guide me rather than just tell me I sucked.
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02/12/2009 06:04:43 PM · #16 |
My first challenge was abysmal......I shudder to see how bad I was.
I probably wouldn't value your first submission at 1 or 2, the offensive cases I referred to were much, much more careless. That said, try and imagine a comment to your initial submission which would suggest a clear improvement without having to be read by your grandson when your vision packs up from reading the first few thousand pages? |
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02/12/2009 06:10:16 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
But in a not too terribly long time, I've learned to do some passable work, and it has been mostly due to people's willingness to take time with me and constructively guide me rather than just tell me I sucked. |
Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of ways to get instruction and help here, particularly by simply posting in the forums and asking. Think of it as practicing before entering a sporting event. If you would rather play before trying to train up to some basic level of competence, then someone calling your entry a piece of shit and thanking you for having wasted their time spent looking at it should probably be expected. Because it is and you did.
Message edited by author 2009-02-12 18:10:59. |
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02/12/2009 06:15:34 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
My first challenge was abysmal......I shudder to see how bad I was. |
Originally posted by olbol:
I probably wouldn't value your first submission at 1 or 2, the offensive cases I referred to were much, much more careless. That said, try and imagine a comment to your initial submission which would suggest a clear improvement without having to be read by your grandson when your vision packs up from reading the first few thousand pages? |
Are yopu saying it would've taken a thousand pages to tell me how to fix my first entry?????
Dude, that's HARSH!!! LOL!!!
I know what you mean, but it's fairly easy to get discouraged here when you're new, especially if/when your early entries tank.
I remember when I was excited 'cause I broke 5......unfortunately, I still don't have to go back even two months to find a 4.
Anywho......I'll argue and jump up and down in the forums, but I know how much I hate it when someone just blasts my work without really taking a moment to tell me what's wrong with it.
Different styles, I guess.
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02/12/2009 06:19:11 PM · #19 |
Different styles, I guess.
You got it. |
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02/12/2009 06:22:05 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
But in a not too terribly long time, I've learned to do some passable work, and it has been mostly due to people's willingness to take time with me and constructively guide me rather than just tell me I sucked. |
Originally posted by violinist123:
Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of ways to get instruction and help here, particularly by simply posting in the forums and asking. Think of it as practicing before entering a sporting event. If you would rather play before trying to train up to some basic level of competence, then someone calling your entry a piece of shit and thanking you for having wasted their time spent looking at it should probably be expected. Because it is and you did. |
Yes, but you don't have to vote, and you certainly aren't required to tell someone their works sucks.....if you really think so, why not just move on.
Their intent was not to waste anyone's time, at least in most cases.....
It seems to me that people don't find their way to the forums & side challenges for a little while when they first get here......that's usually a by-product of the frustration of getting clobbered in challenges.
I'd be curious to see the attrition rate of people who came to the site, got hammered on their first 1-5 challenges that said "F*ck this, I'm outta here!" and went on to have a perfectly normal life without DPC, who might actually have brought something to the table.
I dunno......I guess it's too easy for me to see how tough this can be, and I know how fragile an artistic ego can be, even with a mediocre to decent artist such as myself.
I'll never be great, but I also was happy that I could find some semblance of competence that enabled me not to get too frustrated with the place......though there ARE days! LOL!!!
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02/12/2009 06:23:56 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by olbol:
Some photographers post complete rubbish just for the hell of it. I've just gone through 95% of the apple challenge with some real time wasters posing for participants. Why should I waste my time on elaborating when they obviously don't give a damn on trying to make at least a stab at doing a half-decent pic? |
I find that whole comment quite offensive and unnecessarily rude, however I would like to raise a couple of questions.
1) Considering most of your scores are under the 5.5 average that this voting system allows would you say that you do not put much effort in to your images and are therefore a timewaste posing as a participant?
2) With such a low scoring system do you consider your own entry when giving a score to others peoples work?
3) If 95% of the images are so poor have you considered why your own images often fail to get better than half way in the rankings?
Looking at your voting average I don't think it is a case of the images in just this challenge being an unusually low standard, I am assuming you feel the same with the majority of challenges you vote on so that is why these questions came to mind.
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02/12/2009 06:31:24 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by olbol:
Some photographers post complete rubbish just for the hell of it. I've just gone through 95% of the apple challenge with some real time wasters posing for participants. Why should I waste my time on elaborating when they obviously don't give a damn on trying to make at least a stab at doing a half-decent pic? |
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt so I will continue to believe that if a picture is bad, the result was not intentional. And besides, people do see things differently (what is bad anyway?) I know that what may not be to my taste might be someone else's ten! Remember, there is the option of not voting. I have used that option at times myself, for various reasons.
The idea of having to write a comment if you give a low score is a good one, in my opinion. |
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02/12/2009 06:32:29 PM · #23 |
Well put Mark
I personally struggle to see why some people have an average score given of below 4.0.....Either they are doing this to help their own score, are frustrated that their own score is not doing as they think it should, are overly harsh on others photos without being as harsh on their own, or vote down photos that are not of their style based on personal opinion, and not the technical and subject matter reasons.
I have never had a challenge where my average score given has been below 4.0.......My average score given for challenges generally varies between about 4.8 and 5.8, depending on the overall quality of the challenge (I don't rank photos, but try and vote on merits).
I give plenty of comments when I have time, especially on the photos that I mark Low OR High. Occasionalyl, I find time to comment on all images |
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02/12/2009 06:37:56 PM · #24 |
I like the idea. May be allow users to go to the next entry after voting 1 or 2. But remove thoes votes during scrubbing if 1 and 2 vote doesn't have meaningful comment.
Is it purely a conincidence that users who didn't like the idea, their average votes given is in the range 3.6 - 4.1? Just a thought. |
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02/12/2009 06:44:49 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by DigiFotoBuddy:
I like the idea. May be allow users to go to the next entry after voting 1 or 2. But remove thoes votes during scrubbing if 1 and 2 vote doesn't have meaningful comment.
Is it purely a conincidence that users who didn't like the idea, their average votes given is in the range 3.6 - 4.1? Just a thought. |
My avg is 4. I am ambivalent to the idea since I haven't voted in the longest time. However I would point out that given how pissy people get over negative commentary, forcing people who have the oh-my-god-how-rude voting averages to actually put words to those numbers is probably not something that will be well received. |
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