U.S. ObamaCare... - DPChallenge Forums

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07/29/2009 04:52:59 PM · #129

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Back to Health Care here's Bill Kristol saying that the VA program is a First Class Health Care (minute 7:00)...again, on The Daily Show which is probably pound for pound better than any other news source even as a joke.

I saw that yesterday. Funny how Stewart refuses to let that one pass.

Message edited by author 2009-07-29 16:54:00.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

07/29/2009 05:07:41 PM · #130

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Flash:
Can you cite where americans have flocked from our abysmal system to receive care in these better systems abroad? There are some pretty wealthy folks in Hollywood and Congress. Certainly there must be many who prefer to receive their care in these other countries.

Try researching under the subject of Medical Tourism -- I'm sure there's traffic both ways, but in general it's going to be people going from areas of highest costs (e.g. USA) to places of lower costs/standard of living (e.g. Mexico, India, Thailand).

It's a big enough phenomenon that Michael Crichton used Medical Tourism as the theme of a recent novel... It's happening all around us, particularly for elective surgery. Anyway the point isn't that people flock from our "abysmal" system, particularly not the wealthy and connected among us, the two sub-populations you have identified. These people can afford our very high cost of care. No, it's the ones who have to budget their medical dollar who are beginning to look outside the USA for certain procedures. In many cases, in fact, the procedures are being performed by doctors trained in our medical schools...

R.

Simms

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/29/2009 08:01:43 PM · #131

I havent seen many Brits on here talking about the NHS - which seems to be what Obama is pushing for right?

The thing is, we don't have to have private medical insurance in the UK as we have a National Health Service - whilst it generally gets a lot of bad press (no one likes a happy story do they) I have nothing but praise for the service.

I am not entirely sure of the arrangement regarding healthcare in the US, but I know that at any time of day or night in an emergency if my kids were taken ill I could take them into A&E (accident and emergency, ER to you guys I guess) and they would be assessed, treated, admitted to hospital, given any drugs they may need, 24 hour care. I wouldn't have to worry about if I could afford it or not, it would be there for me and my kids.
When I was tag-teamed by an Oil Tanker and a Mercedes last year I was taken by ambulance to A&E, had 4 or 5 doctors & nurses working on me, full body X-rays, MRI scan, spent several nights in hospital under observation, and when they deemed me well enough to leave, I just got up and left. No forms to fill in - nothing. The hospital didn't care if I was rich or poor, they didnt have to care, they are there just to make people better, not turn a profit. Afterwards I visited my GP 4 or 5 times to pick up scripts (prescriptions) for painkillers. I was offered counselling (again, all paid for by HM Government, well, us, but you know what I mean). I was well looked after - I am lucky I have a good Doctor. But effectively it was all for free - well, I know I pay my national insurance contributions & taxes, but that is something I have paid since I started working so its something I am used to. I am also asthmatic, and my asthma medicine is always the same price - which at the moment is £7.20 - now I know the NHS buy my ventolin inhalers in at £1 each, but my Oxis inhaler costs them £26 to buy in, so I am quids in with that one.

I know for some minor ops people have to wait a while to get an appointment or to see a specialist, but to be honest, the current government, as much as I loath them, really seem to of cut down the waiting times.

Granted you will get a lot of horror stories regarding the NHS, dirty wards, mis-diagnosis, poor service, but those are the kind of things that make headlines - not the millions of people they treat each year incredibly well who have nothing to complain about.

raish

Olympus C-2500L

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

07/30/2009 03:37:00 AM · #132

I'm Brit but ex-pat. The NHS and similar arrangements around Europe, is/are wonderful. It's publicly criticised because it's publicly funded and publicly accountable. Not a whole lot wrong with that.

This thread actually began with a link to a site proclaiming the rights of Americans to be uninsured.

There are then further reservations about the government having information about your health. Given that the government in this case is a group of elected representatives representing whoever put up the campaign funds, it's understandable that they might not be trusted. Exactly how you get to the point where people who put up the money for campaign funds with the money you pay them for your medical insurance, which is priced and available in relation to the extent that you can prove you don't need it, are better to be trusted with such sacred information than the ghastly 'government' that they employ, is a matter that deserves some reflection.

If the

Simms boy has praise for something, it must be doing a lot of things right. Next time your vehicle gets wiped off the highway and you're bleeding into semi-consciousness, you'd better hope you remembered to stick a note on whichever part of the car you can still see, reminding you of your constitutional rights to shoot anyone who tries to access sensitive information about your blood type and penicillin allergies. Then you can get down to negotiating abd planning your treatment and recuperation, because there's nothing like a good battering of the mortal coil to put you in the mood for some clear thinking and invigorating paperwork.

Freedom. Wow.

BeeCee

Nikon D40

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

07/30/2009 04:04:52 AM · #133

It sounds to me that the biggest fears aren't about socialised medicine but about the U.S government's ability to handle it honestly and effectively.

07/30/2009 04:43:10 AM · #134

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

While you seem to be fixated on "social parasites" what I haven't seen you speak about is people who have worked hard all their lives and wind up with health problems that prevent them from working and so they wind up losing their health insurance. Wouldn't it be great for people like this to have a government option to fall back onto?

OH...you mean people like, let's say, my fucking PARENTS?!?! The same ones that have worked their asses off all their lives, only now to be legitimately disabled and absolutely not able to work even an 8 hour shift?!? Those people?!? Gues what the fucking Ogovernement has done for them...go ahead...guess. Let me supple a clue...NOT A FUCKING THING. For the past 6 months, they have all but begged for the governmental system to help them with medical and living expenses. Guess what the O administration has said...sorry, we don't help your people. Guess where that leave me...paying for 95% of their living expenses while also listening to a government that expects ME to offer MORE to help the social parasites I speak of.

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

Eric, how do you know your 911 patients were "social parasites?" Did you have access to their their health insurance info or payment methods? I never did when I worked the ambulance. You spent all of 45 minutes with each of these people and somehow know they are not working? Paying no taxes or rent? Drive expensive cars? Contribute nothing to society, etc?

So I am to assume that YOUR 911 patients just lived in the worst shitholes of the city by choice?!? Maybe that was also the case in Atlanta. Maybe they just picked out the most crime-ridden areas to live with their "100% government funded housing, living on 100% government funded welfare/food stamp programs, working absolutely 0%, paying absolutely 0% income taxes, driving their Cadillac Escalades, playing their new gaming system on their 60" plasma screens and expecting that I somehow still owe them something more" Maybe, somehow, I owe them a fucking apology for doing society such a huge fucking favor. My bad.

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

Hardly the panacea you'd want us to believe they have just because they get a few small government perks.

Panacea or not, they suck on it like I would a beautiful, Asian 36DD that was offered up. I, too, was raised in a SHITHOLE. I made the personal decision to get the fuck out of it. Those parasites make the decision to keep sucking the tit. And why not? Sucking the tit and expecting the other tit to be offered up is a hell of a lot easier than working menial jobs, maybe even 3 or 4 of them LIKE I DID, while putting yourself through school. I like tits, too, but there comes a time when you should be expected AND required to support yourself and your fucking offspring.

At the 911 level, YES, I did have access to their insurance and payment methods. An, guess what, at least 95% of the population that I ~~WAS ABUSED BY~~ "served" depended 100% on government...assistance, unless you include the drug deals and prostitution that we have forced them into. It is very obvious by your posting that you did not work in an urban 911 EMS setting. EMS in surburbia is a very different beast. I can absolutely appreciate your misunderstandings and never-ending hopefulness. I wish that you keep that unrealistic outlook on life and are never forced into seeing the true and ugly side of humanity. If you can do that, you have been a lucky, lucky person.

07/30/2009 04:53:55 AM · #135

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

Agreed, and it's also surprising that more folks aren't upset with U.S. military spending (more than the rest of the world combined), and especially with the cost of the war in Iraq, a war of choice that economists estimate will cost at least $1 trillion (and possibly as much as $3 trillion). That $1 trillion could have financed health care reform for 10 years.

HEY..I remember reading about this one...let's all gather at the airport and spit on out baby-killing, murdering soldiers like your liberal assholes did back in the Vietnam era. That really seemed to change the course of the war. Maybe we should try it again?!? Iraq was a threat to our national security, and you are a moron if you can't look beyond Bush and his moronic politics to see that. Why do you think your 'godsend' of a president hasn't yanked all the troops out of there and Afghanistan immediately?!? Would you really pay more for the chance to see a doctor for your hurting little toe than to keep our Country safe from terror? Then again...

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

There will always be dishonest individuals who will cheat the welfare system, and I think we all would like to remedy that situation. But in my opinion it's really a rather minor concern when considering all the other ways in which our tax dollars are squandered.

OK, if it is really such a minor situation to fix, let's all agree to fix it. Once you can assure and convince me that the bullshit program we call welfare is 100%, and it shouldn't be that difficult since it is such a small problem, I will quit my job and go door-to-door, ACROSS THE ENTIRE COUNTRY and help push obamacare support. Deal?

07/30/2009 04:56:13 AM · #136

Originally posted by Kelli:

If somehow, in some bizarre universe, Palin ever made it to the highest office in this country... I think at least 50% of the population would finally cry uncle and move.

We could only hope and fantasize...the country without angry lesbians...WOW, what a wonderful place this would be.

07/30/2009 04:59:20 AM · #137

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by LoudDog:
...those are all optional (actually don't you have to ask for all of those?)

No. Social Security and certain vaccination programs are pretty much mandatory.

and I quote "pretty much mandatory"

I don't even know what "pretty much mandatory" means. Can someone please help?

07/30/2009 05:01:27 AM · #138

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Flash:
Can you cite where americans have flocked from our abysmal system to receive care in these better systems abroad? There are some pretty wealthy folks in Hollywood and Congress. Certainly there must be many who prefer to receive their care in these other countries.

Try researching under the subject of Medical Tourism -- I'm sure there's traffic both ways, but in general it's going to be people going from areas of highest costs (e.g. USA) to places of lower costs/standard of living (e.g. Mexico, India, Thailand).

It's a big enough phenomenon that Michael Crichton used Medical Tourism as the theme of a recent novel... It's happening all around us, particularly for elective surgery. Anyway the point isn't that people flock from our "abysmal" system, particularly not the wealthy and connected among us, the two sub-populations you have identified. These people can afford our very high cost of care. No, it's the ones who have to budget their medical dollar who are beginning to look outside the USA for certain procedures. In many cases, in fact, the procedures are being performed by doctors trained in our medical schools...

R.

Didn't Crichton write some other really cool, FICTION novels, too?

07/30/2009 05:07:12 AM · #139

Originally posted by Simms:

I am not entirely sure of the arrangement regarding healthcare in the US, but I know that at any time of day or night in an emergency if my kids were taken ill I could take them into A&E (accident and emergency, ER to you guys I guess) and they would be assessed, treated, admitted to hospital, given any drugs they may need, 24 hour care. I wouldn't have to worry about if I could afford it or not, it would be there for me and my kids.

WOW!!! That sounds EXACTLY like the program we have in the United States, save the fact that there are no additional taxes to pay. Add to that the fact that most children's centers across the nation are not-for-profit, THUS have no real reason to chase anyone for additional payment they cannot afford, and you have a very nice system that aims to take care of a population that hasn't spent a lifetime making stupid decisions. I agree with you, Simms, America is better.

07/30/2009 05:13:38 AM · #140

Originally posted by BeeCee:

It sounds to me that the biggest fears aren't about socialised medicine but about the U.S government's ability to handle it honestly and effectively.

YEP. If you can, somehow, get them to fix the one little program we all refer to as welfare, I will buy into a social healthcare system 100%. Until then, you need to do what you can to take care of yourself. I don't need your help, and I don't expect you should need mine.

(unless, by chance, someone out there wants to refund me the $17,237.75 in camera gear that some thieving asshole recently saw fit to swipe from MY car sitting in MY driveway. Until then, I guess I'll just go on taking care of myself)

Mousie

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/30/2009 07:07:57 AM · #141

Originally posted by ericwoo:

Originally posted by Kelli:
If somehow, in some bizarre universe, Palin ever made it to the highest office in this country... I think at least 50% of the population would finally cry uncle and move.

We could only hope and fantasize...the country without angry lesbians...WOW, what a wonderful place this would be.

Eric, I can tell by the quantity and tenor of your recent posts that you're all excited and stuff, but please, could we keep the stereotyping and divisiveness to a minimum? A less tolerant homosexual (or decent human being) might think you were a bit of a dick after reading that. It certainly doesn't help get your points across.

And come on, for someone always going on about entitlement, stop being so darn entitled yourself. I paid for my own education and worked hard to get where I am, and you don't hear me bitching about what everyone's supposedly stealing from me. You sound like a senile old lady complaining about their supposedly sticky-fingered help. What makes you so special?

I mean, I didn't even HAVE to work four jobs to get by... just made some good choices early on, lived in housing within my means, kept my nose to the grindstone, and kept my finances in order. It's not a freakin' magic formula! Maybe you could look at some of your past choices and reevaluate them a bit. Maybe if you were less stressed about running your life and getting what's yours you'd have more room for understanding others!

And pardon my gayness, but are Asian boobs really that much different from other boobs? I'm afraid I'm at a disadvantage here without having much domain experience, as I've never spent any energy becoming a connoisseur (being mainly content grouping boobs as 'okay' or 'unfortunate'), but combined with your other posts, the analogy's bizarre precision paints me a picture of a xenophobic, us vs. them outlook no matter what subject you're discussing. I don't envy you this burden, if that's the case. Then again, maybe Asian boobs are wildly different and better, but somehow I doubt it.

Feel free to make the case otherwise.

Simms