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08/27/2009 06:22:31 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by JEason:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
You want to know what's a freakin' shame?
The absolute disgraceful slap in the face that the whole way the Chappaquiddick incident went down and was handled.
TEN HOURS LATER the police find out about this?????
He's surrounded by his family and lawyers when the deed is brought to light?
He's given a suspended sentence?
He continues down a path of womanizing and drunkenness for another decade and a half or so, and that's okay too?
You guys want to put a moratorium on something, how about y'all who are saying "Don't pick on ol' Ted" go tell it to the Kapechne family.
The LEAST he could do is to spend the rest of his life trying to make up for it, and he stioll acted like a freakin' Kennedy for the next fifteen years.
You people who want to be so forgiving about this crap ought to really think about the families whose lives get ruined by people like this.
Let's talk about his stellar behavior during his first marriage to Joan......you know, the woman he was married to and was in the car with him......oh wait!
He was a drunken, philandering bum for all too many years; that whole "One incident" garbage certainly will NOT fly. |
Everyone gets what they deserve, maybe not in this life but it'll eventually come around to haunt them. Whether that happens to Ted is not for us to judge. That's what keeps me going through a world that at times can seem so bad. I do agree with you mostly and I think the same thing happened with Michael Jackson. IMO. |
That's the thing. It was for a jury to be judged, but never was because of his last name. How can you possibly say he will get what he deserves now? He is dead. He got a small taste with his cancer, but at least he had doctors to try to give him a shot. Mary Jo didn't even have that. |
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08/27/2009 06:49:05 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Traditionally, when great, enduring public figures die, they are given the respect they have earned by friend and foe alike. The tone of some of these posts is sickening to me. There's a time for that crap (say, a couple weeks after the funeral and onward?) but it sure as hell ain't now. Shame!
R. |
I'm with Bear on this one. No matter what you thought of the guy, he was a hell of a leader on his side of the game. |
On his side is the only place he will get respect (the liberal side). |
George Will, one of the most respected conservative voices in America, paid him respect in his column today. He commented to the "positive balance" that Kennedy leaves behind. He spoke of what Winston Churchill said of Franklin D. Roosevelt: that "Meeting him was like opening a bottle of champagne, and knowing him was like drinking it.", and he said this was true of Kennedy as well. He closed his column with "He lived his own large life, and the ledger of it shows a substantial positive balance."
R.
Message edited by author 2009-08-27 20:28:15. |
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08/27/2009 06:59:55 PM · #53 |
| Bear, you state things so much better than I do. From now on, I'm gonna have to just let you speak for me :) |
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08/27/2009 07:14:51 PM · #54 |
I'm sure her family takes comfort in knowing that their beloved daughter is now used as political fodder for people who can't debate the issues so they resort to attacking the opposition by bludgeoning him with her corpse.
Again, we all know you couldn't care less about Mary Jo, so stop invoking her name to attack Kennedy. It only proves how utterly absent you are of any semblance of class or decorum.
If you really want to delve down into the gutter, let's talk about the paragons of virtue your side has bestowed on the country.
The Honorable Senator Larry Craig from Idaho who trolls airport men's room offering oral pleasure to strangers
The Honorable Congressman Mark Foley from Florida who likes sexting with 15 year old boys
The Honorable former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich who served his wife divorce papers while she was in the hospital recovering from cancer. Well, he had to that so he could marry his mistress.
The Honorable Governor of South Carolina Mark Sanford who likes to fly down to South America to visit his mistress, paid for by the good people of South Carolina
When you start electing people with any better personal credentials than anyone else, maybe we will start taking your moral indignation seriously, until then, please shut up and let people mourn.
I really didn't want to lower myself to your level, but this is inexcusable.
Originally posted by rugman1969:
The dishonor to Mary Jo started in 1969, when Ted walked away from the scene and did nothing for 10 hours. Care to comment on that?
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by kenskid:
Shame = Driving young lady into water - leaving her to drown - getting away with it.
You can sing the praise of the great Kennedy all you want. It doesn't change the fact of what happened at Chappaquiddick.
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And everyone knows you don't give a damn about Mary Jo. You only use her to attack Kennedy. If that isn't a dishonor to her memory, I don't know what is. |
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08/27/2009 07:43:47 PM · #55 |
If you people want to deify this guy, you go ahead, but you're only lying to yourselves, and God help you if this is the kind of person you hold up as an example of a good man.
No matter what you say, the man established himself as the last kind of person you'd want your daughter to be associated with, and if you want to ignore four decades of that behavior, including one reprehensible death of an innocent woman, shame on YOU!
Yes, he changed his behaviors, and he did many good things, but you cannot erase what he was for far too long.
Message edited by author 2009-08-27 20:00:05. |
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08/27/2009 07:55:40 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
There was a time when leaders were men of honor and paragons of decency...... |
I dare you to name one. (Jesus and Mohandas Gandhi are ineligible for this poll ...) |
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08/27/2009 08:00:37 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
There was a time when leaders were men of honor and paragons of decency...... |
I dare you to name one. (Jesus and Mohandas Gandhi are ineligible for this poll ...) |
Colin Powell. |
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08/27/2009 08:03:27 PM · #58 |
| You mean the fellow who convinced America to go to war in Iraq? How many people (besides Saddam) would be alive today if he hadn't presented all that bogus info at the UN? And, AFAIK he wasn't inebriated at the time of his error in judgement ... |
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08/27/2009 08:09:58 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
You mean the fellow who convinced America to go to war in Iraq? How many people (besides Saddam) would be alive today if he hadn't presented all that bogus info at the UN? And, AFAIK he wasn't inebriated at the time of his error in judgement ... |
I agree General - - I have a Masters in American, European and Asian history. There was never ANY leader that was honorable or decent. Those who have power will do anything to keep it. If you believe otherwise, you are fooling yourself. I'll even admit myself...if I was that powerful I would most likely like, cheat and steal to keep it that way. I usually thank God I was born poor....less chance of being a scumbag.
And hey - let's not fight about some guy who is dead - it doesn't do any good. My best friend was killed by a drunk driver. I had to see her body laid out in a ditch with her chest caved in. The woman who did it didn't serve a day in jail because she was rich. I had to learn the hard way that all you can do is forgive, never forget, and thank God for what you have today. |
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08/27/2009 08:17:11 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
You mean the fellow who convinced America to go to war in Iraq? How many people (besides Saddam) would be alive today if he hadn't presented all that bogus info at the UN? And, AFAIK he wasn't inebriated at the time of his error in judgement ... |
Originally posted by ThatChickOverThere:
I agree General - - I have a Masters in American, European and Asian history. There was never ANY leader that was honorable or decent. Those who have power will do anything to keep it. If you believe otherwise, you are fooling yourself. I'll even admit myself...if I was that powerful I would most likely like, cheat and steal to keep it that way. I usually thank God I was born poor....less chance of being a scumbag.
And hey - let's not fight about some guy who is dead - it doesn't do any good. My best friend was killed by a drunk driver. I had to see her body laid out in a ditch with her chest caved in. The woman who did it didn't serve a day in jail because she was rich. I had to learn the hard way that all you can do is forgive, never forget, and thank God for what you have today. |
Okay, fine.....they're ALL scum.
So let's not make the dead guy into something he's not. |
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08/27/2009 08:20:05 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
You mean the fellow who convinced America to go to war in Iraq? How many people (besides Saddam) would be alive today if he hadn't presented all that bogus info at the UN? And, AFAIK he wasn't inebriated at the time of his error in judgement ... |
Originally posted by ThatChickOverThere:
I agree General - - I have a Masters in American, European and Asian history. There was never ANY leader that was honorable or decent. Those who have power will do anything to keep it. If you believe otherwise, you are fooling yourself. I'll even admit myself...if I was that powerful I would most likely like, cheat and steal to keep it that way. I usually thank God I was born poor....less chance of being a scumbag.
And hey - let's not fight about some guy who is dead - it doesn't do any good. My best friend was killed by a drunk driver. I had to see her body laid out in a ditch with her chest caved in. The woman who did it didn't serve a day in jail because she was rich. I had to learn the hard way that all you can do is forgive, never forget, and thank God for what you have today. |
Okay, fine.....they're ALL scum.
So let's not make the dead guy into something he's not. |
Right on Jeb - let the dead rest in peace, let the Lord give those who loved them comfort and let those the dead person may have wronged be strong enough to find their own peace. |
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08/27/2009 08:23:48 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
I'm sure her family takes comfort in knowing that their beloved daughter is now used as political fodder for people who can't debate the issues so they resort to attacking the opposition by bludgeoning him with her corpse.
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Almost as much comfort in knowing that people are also diminshing her name & now referring to her as a "corpse"..
I mean WOW...
You're no different then them at this point, you've actually managed to make their argument sound sympathetic with your above statement.. |
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08/27/2009 09:16:24 PM · #63 |
never mind...
Message edited by author 2009-08-27 22:04:07. |
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08/28/2009 08:40:30 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
I'm sure her family takes comfort in knowing that their beloved daughter is now used as political fodder for people who can't debate the issues so they resort to attacking the opposition by bludgeoning him with her corpse.
Again, we all know you couldn't care less about Mary Jo, so stop invoking her name to attack Kennedy. It only proves how utterly absent you are of any semblance of class or decorum.
If you really want to delve down into the gutter, let's talk about the paragons of virtue your side has bestowed on the country.
The Honorable Senator Larry Craig from Idaho who trolls airport men's room offering oral pleasure to strangers
The Honorable Congressman Mark Foley from Florida who likes sexting with 15 year old boys
The Honorable former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich who served his wife divorce papers while she was in the hospital recovering from cancer. Well, he had to that so he could marry his mistress.
The Honorable Governor of South Carolina Mark Sanford who likes to fly down to South America to visit his mistress, paid for by the good people of South Carolina
When you start electing people with any better personal credentials than anyone else, maybe we will start taking your moral indignation seriously, until then, please shut up and let people mourn.
I really didn't want to lower myself to your level, but this is inexcusable.
Originally posted by rugman1969:
The dishonor to Mary Jo started in 1969, when Ted walked away from the scene and did nothing for 10 hours. Care to comment on that?
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by kenskid:
Shame = Driving young lady into water - leaving her to drown - getting away with it.
You can sing the praise of the great Kennedy all you want. It doesn't change the fact of what happened at Chappaquiddick.
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And everyone knows you don't give a damn about Mary Jo. You only use her to attack Kennedy. If that isn't a dishonor to her memory, I don't know what is. |
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hmmmm....your list does not include any Republicans that left someone to drown while they returned to a party. Or later found it as one of his favorite topics of humor:
//corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=M2M2YWQ1ODQwNjZiOGVmZWU3MzQ2MmZmMDk4MWExZGY=
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09/01/2009 12:35:27 AM · #65 |
To the Kennedy supporters,
Do any of you know about this stuff? And no, it's not just about Mary Jo.
As soon as his cancer was detected, I noticed the immediate attempt at the “canonization” of old Teddy Kennedy by the mainstream media. They are saying what a "great American" he is. I say, let's get a couple things clear and not twist the facts to change the real history:
1. He was caught cheating at Harvard when he attended it. He was expelled twice, once for cheating on a test, and once for paying a classmate to cheat for him.
2. While expelled, Kennedy enlisted in the Army, but mistakenly signed up for four years instead of two. Oops! The man can't count to four! His father, Joseph P. Kennedy, former U.S. Ambassador to England (a step up from bootlegging liquor into the US from Canada during prohibition), pulled the necessary strings to have his enlistment shortened to two years, and to ensure that he served in Europe, not Korea , where a war was raging. No preferential treatment for him! (like he charged that President Bush received).
3. Kennedy was assigned to Paris , never advanced beyond the rank of Private, and returned to Harvard upon being discharged. Imagine a person of his "education" NEVER advancing past the rank of Private!
4. While attending law school at the University of Virginia , he was cited for reckless driving four times, including once when he was clocked driving 90 miles per hour in a residential neighborhood with his headlights off after dark. Yet his Virginia driver's license was never revoked.. Coincidentally, he passed the bar exam in 1959. Amazing!
5. In 1964, he was seriously injured in a plane crash, and hospitalized for several months. Test results done by the hospital at the time he was admitted had shown he was legally intoxicated. The results of those tests remained a "state secret" until in the 1980's when the report was unsealed.. Didn't hear about that from the unbiased media, did we?
6. On July 19, 1969, Kennedy attended a party on Chappaquiddick Island in Massachusetts . At about 11:00 PM, he borrowed his chauffeur's keys to his Oldsmobile limousine, and offered to give a ride home to Mary Jo Kopechne, a campaign worker. Leaving the island via an unlit bridge with no guard rail, Kennedy steered the car off the bridge, flipped, and into Poucha Pond..
7. He swam to shore and walked back to the party, passing several houses and a fire station. Two friends then returned with him to the scene of the accident. According to their later testimony, they told him what he already knew - that he was required by law to immediately report the accident to the authorities. Instead, Kennedy made his way to his hotel, called his lawyer, and went to sleep. Kennedy called the police the next morning and by then the wreck had already been discovered. Before dying, Kopechne had scratched at the upholstered floor above her head in the upside-down car.
The Kennedy family began "calling in favors", ensuring that any inquiry would be contained. Her corpse was whisked out-of-state to her family, before an autopsy could be conducted. Further details are uncertain, but after the accident Kennedy says he repeatedly dove under the water trying to rescue Kopechne and he didn't call police because he was in a state of shock.
It is widely assumed Kennedy was drunk, and he held off calling police in hopes that his family could fix the problem overnight. Since the accident, Kennedy's "political enemies" have referred to him as the distinguished Senator from Chappaquiddick. He pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, and was given a SUSPENDED SENTENCE OF TWO MONTHS.
Kopechne's family received a small pay out from the Kennedy's insurance policy, and never sued. There was later an effort to have her body exhumed and autopsied, but her family successfully fought against this in court, and Kennedy's family paid their attorney's bills... a "token of friendship"?
8. Kennedy has held his Senate seat for more than forty years, but considering his longevity, his accomplishments seem scant. He authored or argued for legislation that ensured a variety of civil rights, increased the minimum wage in 1981, made access to health care easier for the indigent, and funded Meals on Wheels for fixed-income seniors and is widely held as the "standard-bearer for liberalism". In his very first Senate roll, he was the floor manager for the bill that turned U.S. immigration policy upside down and opened the floodgate for immigrants from third world countries.
9. Since that time, he has been the prime instigator and author of every expansion of an increase in immigration, up to and including the latest attempt to grant amnesty to illegal aliens. Not to mention the pious grilling he gave the last two Supreme Court nominees, as if he was the standard bearer for the nation in matters of “what’s right".
10. He is known around Washington as a public drunk, loud, boisterous and very disrespectful to ladies. JERK is a better description than "great American". “A blond in every pond” should be his motto.
Let's not allow the spin doctors to make this jerk a hero -- how quickly the American public forgets what his real legacy is. Let’s keep this going for truth, justice and the American way.
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09/01/2009 12:49:31 AM · #66 |
This is the last "Rant" thread I will read. I am now turning off this section of DPC. Why? Because the vehemence and virtual violence that runs through some of these threads really does directly affect how I see some people's PHOTOGRAPHY and that just shouldn't be. I want to see your photography as pictures, not as "Oh, that's a shot from so-and-so, and I can't abide their politics, so I can't like their photography."
And yes, this is MY problem, not yours. But it may not be just me... |
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09/01/2009 06:20:42 AM · #67 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
But it may not be just me... |
It's not just you, believe me. It saddens me to no end, but instead of reasonable respect & discourse in this country we seem determined to spawn hysteria & ugliness, mindlessly repeating the mantras of those who scream the loudest. And weirdly, it does affect how I view the photography of those I end up "disliking" because of their politics. |
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09/01/2009 06:52:24 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
This is the last "Rant" thread I will read. I am now turning off this section of DPC. Why? Because the vehemence and virtual violence that runs through some of these threads really does directly affect how I see some people's PHOTOGRAPHY and that just shouldn't be. I want to see your photography as pictures, not as "Oh, that's a shot from so-and-so, and I can't abide their politics, so I can't like their photography." |
Well, I'm sorry to see that you feel this way, not about some of the vehemence, but of all the threads to pick, when a couple people like myself are simply objecting to the deification of a man who quite literally got away with murder.
Chapter and verse of a litany of reprehensible behavior has served only to have the few of us pretty much called monsters and un-American because we won't overlook a couple of "minor details".
I'm sorry, but if my kid grew up to be the kind of person Ted Kennedy was, I'd die in shame. |
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09/01/2009 10:02:35 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Melethia:
This is the last "Rant" thread I will read. I am now turning off this section of DPC. Why? Because the vehemence and virtual violence that runs through some of these threads really does directly affect how I see some people's PHOTOGRAPHY and that just shouldn't be. I want to see your photography as pictures, not as "Oh, that's a shot from so-and-so, and I can't abide their politics, so I can't like their photography." |
Well, I'm sorry to see that you feel this way, not about some of the vehemence, but of all the threads to pick, when a couple people like myself are simply objecting to the deification of a man who quite literally got away with murder.
Chapter and verse of a litany of reprehensible behavior has served only to have the few of us pretty much called monsters and un-American because we won't overlook a couple of "minor details".
I'm sorry, but if my kid grew up to be the kind of person Ted Kennedy was, I'd die in shame. |
I would try thinking of a world where Ted Kennedy never existed. In a few cases it may be better however there are a large number of things that he has done that have made the world a much better place to live in. No, I don't condone or forget about the bad things that he has done or caused in his life. Sure, you can be ashamed of the bad but you can also be d%&* proud of the good.
Message edited by author 2009-09-01 10:03:13. |
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09/01/2009 10:34:53 AM · #70 |
I'm reminded of George Bush joking about searching for Weapons of Mass Destruction.
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09/01/2009 10:43:50 AM · #71 |
I dont know much about the man at all, reading this you get some views.
But what would be an interesting thing is to write about yourself.
Pretend you are a famous person who just died and look back on your life and write the good and bad that you did in the world.
Now that would be a fascinating challenge
I double dog dare people in this thread to do it! |
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09/01/2009 12:29:02 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
I dont know much about the man at all, reading this you get some views.
But what would be an interesting thing is to write about yourself.
Pretend you are a famous person who just died and look back on your life and write the good and bad that you did in the world.
Now that would be a fascinating challenge
I double dog dare people in this thread to do it! |
I'd probably be hard pressed to skew the balance toward the good side, especially if you take selflessness, or the lack thereof, into the picture.
I was the center of my own universe for all too long before I discovered that life is pretty much NOT about me.
But.......I also don't offer myself up as an example of a truly good person......nor would I expect to be seen as such.
I am terribly flawed, and have been for years.
I try to live better now, but I don't for one second expect that anything I do now will cancel out any bad I had previously done.
I certainly hope that when I'm gone that some will miss me for having brought some good into their lives.
I can tell you this......I sure as Hell would never run for public office as I feel that my history demonstrates that I am NOT a good example of what a person shoud live like.
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09/02/2009 10:48:54 PM · #73 |
it is harder than one thinks,
I have been trying and so far, it is all rather depressing! |
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09/22/2009 03:39:48 AM · #74 |
| On his deathbed, Kennedy finally admitted guilt to the Mary Jo incident, and said he can't wait to see her when he dies to apologize. What makes this man think he's going to heaven? |
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09/22/2009 03:44:15 AM · #75 |
never mind
Message edited by author 2009-09-22 03:44:49. |
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