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04/23/2010 06:11:26 AM · #1 |
Here's a great article:
Heaven - a Fool's Paradise
81% of Americans and 51% of Brits believe in heaven and the vast majority of them think it is an actual physical place. That's an astonishing number.
The article makes a good argument that heaven is a negative influence on society (it is used as a threat and to induce irrational behaviour), that it has little grounding in history, that it is conceptually flawed, and that it is time for humanity to cast off these childish dreams.
I'd be interested in hearing any rational reasons why we should preserve a belief in heaven?
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04/23/2010 06:19:01 AM · #2 |
Off Topic but - Nice to see you round here again!
Mike
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04/23/2010 06:42:59 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
I'd be interested in hearing any rational reasons why we should preserve a belief in heaven? |
The longer I'm here on DPC, and the more I hear from the Christians in general, the more amazed I am that anyone would buy into any of it. There is not one whit of proof, or validation, so the sheer complicated intricacies of the whole system just boggle my mind. I think it's pretty much all a bunch of hoo-hah created by people to make themselves less scared of dying.
I know this'll unleash a whole torrent of "What about your immortal soul." and "Don't you want salvation in the hereafter?" but to be honest with you, I don't have any intention of living my life for what might be waiting for me after this.
Thing is......what if they're wrongt? Then their lives had no meaning whatsoever since they lived it for their eternal salvation. We're here today, and to be as good and decent to each other as we can for that in and of itself, nt to get us into heaven or keep us from going to Hell.
I refuse to run my life for a promise with no proof or guarantees.
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04/23/2010 06:55:31 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Matthew:
I'd be interested in hearing any rational reasons why we should preserve a belief in heaven? |
The longer I'm here on DPC, and the more I hear from the Christians in general, the more amazed I am that anyone would buy into any of it. There is not one whit of proof, or validation, so the sheer complicated intricacies of the whole system just boggle my mind. I think it's pretty much all a bunch of hoo-hah created by people to make themselves less scared of dying.
I know this'll unleash a whole torrent of "What about your immortal soul." and "Don't you want salvation in the hereafter?" but to be honest with you, I don't have any intention of living my life for what might be waiting for me after this.
Thing is......what if they're wrongt? Then their lives had no meaning whatsoever since they lived it for their eternal salvation. We're here today, and to be as good and decent to each other as we can for that in and of itself, nt to get us into heaven or keep us from going to Hell.
I refuse to run my life for a promise with no proof or guarantees. |
I agree 100%, however if people believe, and they hold on to the hope that one day they will achieve that belief, well good luck to them. I actually admire people who have faith in their God.
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04/23/2010 07:24:36 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
I'd be interested in hearing any rational reasons why we should preserve a belief in heaven? |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
The longer I'm here on DPC, and the more I hear from the Christians in general, the more amazed I am that anyone would buy into any of it. There is not one whit of proof, or validation, so the sheer complicated intricacies of the whole system just boggle my mind. I think it's pretty much all a bunch of hoo-hah created by people to make themselves less scared of dying.
I know this'll unleash a whole torrent of "What about your immortal soul." and "Don't you want salvation in the hereafter?" but to be honest with you, I don't have any intention of living my life for what might be waiting for me after this.
Thing is......what if they're wrongt? Then their lives had no meaning whatsoever since they lived it for their eternal salvation. We're here today, and to be as good and decent to each other as we can for that in and of itself, nt to get us into heaven or keep us from going to Hell.
I refuse to run my life for a promise with no proof or guarantees. |
Originally posted by Sevlow:
I agree 100%, however if people believe, and they hold on to the hope that one day they will achieve that belief, well good luck to them. I actually admire people who have faith in their God. |
Oh, I believe in God......I'm just not arrogant, or presumptuous enough to imagine for one second that this is all about us.
I think we're more along the lines of an ant farm set up for God's amusement. I do believe that there is a good and decent God, but I also think he's allowed us to make our own mess and take resposibility for it.
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04/23/2010 09:11:02 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
.... I think we're more along the lines of an ant farm set up for God's amusement. |
Seriously no offense, Jeb, but I'm a bit dazzled that in one post you can express amazement that anyone would buy into a bunch of hoo-hah, and in your next post say something equally hoo-hah-ish. Maybe it will become clearer after I've finished my cup of coffee. :-) |
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04/23/2010 09:41:00 AM · #7 |
Hoo-hah!
(OK, that's the limit of my input in a religion thread!) |
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04/23/2010 10:29:51 AM · #8 |
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04/23/2010 10:36:10 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
May GOD help you all. |
Which one? |
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04/23/2010 10:37:49 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
.... I think we're more along the lines of an ant farm set up for God's amusement. |
Seriously no offense, Jeb, but I'm a bit dazzled that in one post you can express amazement that anyone would buy into a bunch of hoo-hah, and in your next post say something equally hoo-hah-ish. Maybe it will become clearer after I've finished my cup of coffee. :-) |
better keep drinking. :} |
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04/23/2010 12:58:42 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by David Ey:
May GOD help you all. |
Which one? |
The one who said to have no other gods before HIM. The one who sent His Son to die for us so that we may have everlasting life. You don't know Him.
I had rather be wrong and have "wasted" my life as one here has said, than to be right and "wasted" my eternity by rejecting Him.
I hope you find Him. |
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04/23/2010 01:07:08 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by David Ey:
May GOD help you all. |
Which one? |
The one who said to have no other gods before HIM... |
Ah, you mean this Guy:
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
You're a photographer, right? :-O |
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04/23/2010 01:45:36 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
The one who said to have no other gods before HIM. The one who sent His Son to die for us so that we may have everlasting life. |
Got any proof?
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04/23/2010 01:47:49 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
.... I think we're more along the lines of an ant farm set up for God's amusement. |
Originally posted by citymars:
Seriously no offense, Jeb, but I'm a bit dazzled that in one post you can express amazement that anyone would buy into a bunch of hoo-hah, and in your next post say something equally hoo-hah-ish. Maybe it will become clearer after I've finished my cup of coffee. :-) |
Nah!
I really don't think about it much, and that's really about the only line of thought that makes much sense to me. There are too many people who believe too many different things for it to make sense any other way.
I lose no sleep over it and just try to do teh best I can.
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04/23/2010 01:48:50 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I lose no sleep over it and just try to do teh best I can. |
That I can relate to. ;-)
EDITED TO FIX MY TYPO (duh)
Message edited by author 2010-04-23 15:53:47. |
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04/23/2010 02:40:55 PM · #16 |
All I need do my friends is look around me ... and have faith.
Proof, in your meaning I assume, no.
Photographer? no. Besides, I think the reference here is do not worship any other things. Of course I may be wrong. I love you folks, and wish you well. |
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04/23/2010 03:22:11 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
You're a photographer, right? :-O |
:} Thats kinda funny. :} |
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04/23/2010 03:25:39 PM · #18 |
Is there an angle worth talking about here Matthew? What was the purpose of your posting? Certainly the easiest interpretations of this lead to conversations that have been done to death, so why post this?
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04/23/2010 03:47:11 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Is there an angle worth talking about here Matthew? What was the purpose of your posting? Certainly the easiest interpretations of this lead to conversations that have been done to death, so why post this? |
Maybe to get to start a thread called, "Heaven - A Fool's Paradise" without actually violating the personal attack TOS because he is copying an article?
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04/23/2010 03:54:13 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Is there an angle worth talking about here Matthew? What was the purpose of your posting? Certainly the easiest interpretations of this lead to conversations that have been done to death, so why post this? |
Maybe to get to start a thread called, "Heaven - A Fool's Paradise" without actually violating the personal attack TOS because he is copying an article? |
How would starting a thread like that even without an article be a personal attack? It would have to be, "Heaven - DrAchoo's Fool Paradise" or something.
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04/23/2010 04:12:23 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Is there an angle worth talking about here Matthew? What was the purpose of your posting? Certainly the easiest interpretations of this lead to conversations that have been done to death, so why post this? |
Apparently he was unaware that you have the monopoly on starting religious type threads. |
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04/23/2010 04:21:04 PM · #22 |
| I have a very simple outlook on life; I live a life of being and doing good. If there is a heaven, I'll be okay. If there is no heaven, I would have had a good life. And that was before the cancer and so it is after the cancer. |
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04/23/2010 04:24:25 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by keegbow:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Is there an angle worth talking about here Matthew? What was the purpose of your posting? Certainly the easiest interpretations of this lead to conversations that have been done to death, so why post this? |
Apparently he was unaware that you have the monopoly on starting religious type threads. |
Believe it or not, I haven't started a thread in Rant for almost exactly a year. I really was asking Matthew if there was something he wanted to discuss, because the "is there proof for x" or "religion can cause bad behavior" conversations have been discussed lots of time already. Maybe he had a different idea in mind?
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04/23/2010 04:28:43 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Is there an angle worth talking about here Matthew? What was the purpose of your posting? Certainly the easiest interpretations of this lead to conversations that have been done to death, so why post this? |
Maybe to get to start a thread called, "Heaven - A Fool's Paradise" without actually violating the personal attack TOS because he is copying an article? |
How would starting a thread like that even without an article be a personal attack? It would have to be, "Heaven - DrAchoo's Fool Paradise" or something. |
Oh, I don't know. How about if someone started a thread named "God Hates Fa*s" and linked to a story on the Westboro Baptist Church?
Nahh, that wouldn't be personal since no one was named, right? |
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04/23/2010 04:32:26 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Is there an angle worth talking about here Matthew? What was the purpose of your posting? Certainly the easiest interpretations of this lead to conversations that have been done to death, so why post this? |
I thought it was an interesting angle on some otherwise staid discussions. It is not something I have seen in other threads (though I might have missed it). In particular, I thought that the religious leaders thread was a bit silly, based on crazed fundamentalism (not really a debating topic) and getting a bit too personal when it comes to individual relationships.
Heaven as being a physical reality seems to underpin a lot of religious belief: but the modern concept is nothing short of screwy when one really thinks about it seriously. I was interested by the article's assertions that it is actually a negative force in society.
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