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10/15/2010 11:43:16 AM · #1 |
In time to come the human race will discover a very sad reality, computer games are more of a corrupting force than pornography. Both are wrong, no doubt. Yet, one is welcomed by 90% of us, the other banned by 90%. And we all know which genres of games I am referring to.
Computer games are welcome in our homes, no matter the content, weirdness, other-worldliness and or influences. The language and violence and abuse is all part of just a game. Nudity is frowned upon, sex is taboo.
This welcome guest is increasing in violence and sex and language and dirt and whatever evil as we speak. Anything to feed the addicted (young) minds seeking the unworldly pleasures of now and whatever is against society's norms and standards.
They do not create agile minds, strong skills and values. They do create acceptance for blood and gore, for violence abuse and anything anti social. They preach action, not consequences.
ARGGGGGGGGGGGG!!! I could go on and on, but I blowing off some steam. You do not have to believe me nor share with me my anti games sentiments. We must agree to disagree.How can I look this phenomena in the eye and be comfortable? On the contrary, I fear the real influence on our social fiber of this very creation in 10 to 20 years from now.
(Stirring, stirring and stirring some more :P)
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10/15/2010 11:57:32 AM · #2 |
Games are just another form of media. In the same way we can allow violent DVD movies into our house, or allow kids to watch an inappropriate film on TV - How are games any different?
Games all have ratings, so why not treat them the same way as other media and censor as you see fit? |
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10/15/2010 12:07:49 PM · #3 |
| Is it any different from Yosemite Sam having a stick of dynamite blow up in his face? Or Wile E. Coyote falling off a 500 ft cliff? That's what I grew up with and I am a well adjusted member of society today. So is Grog. At least that's what he tells me. |
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10/15/2010 01:44:16 PM · #4 |
My daughter is a camping griefer. She just sits & hides until I come walking by. Then she blasts me to bits with her bazooka.
The younger generation has, indeed, gone to hell. |
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10/15/2010 02:35:08 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Is it any different from Yosemite Sam having a stick of dynamite blow up in his face? Or Wile E. Coyote falling off a 500 ft cliff? |
Yes, it is, though those aren't the best stuff for young minds either.
Originally posted by docpjv:
They do not create agile minds, strong skills and values. |
Actually, research has shown that surgeons who played video games growing up are more adept as using the robotic and laparoscopic tools which are becoming ever more common these days. |
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10/15/2010 03:30:14 PM · #6 |
You speak my language doc. Both are systemic manifestations of the fact our society is based on hedonism. It is well known that on repeated stimuli the brain requires more and more to attain the same level of "pleasure". Pornography and entertainment such as video games or movies are caught up in a rat race of giving us pleasure and nobody questions whether this is healthy for our society or not. (well, I shouldn't say nobody, but generally very few seem to care). Nobody cares because the seeking of pleasure is the highest good (ie. hedonism). Those who do care are caught raising their children in this environment geared at maintaining pleasure for the addict. It is harder and harder to shut these influences out.
Sometimes I feel like letting off steam about it too. :) So don't feel bad for doing so. |
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10/15/2010 04:12:01 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You speak my language doc. Both are systemic manifestations of the fact our society is based on hedonism. It is well known that on repeated stimuli the brain requires more and more to attain the same level of "pleasure". Pornography and entertainment such as video games or movies are caught up in a rat race of giving us pleasure and nobody questions whether this is healthy for our society or not. (well, I shouldn't say nobody, but generally very few seem to care). Nobody cares because the seeking of pleasure is the highest good (ie. hedonism). Those who do care are caught raising their children in this environment geared at maintaining pleasure for the addict. It is harder and harder to shut these influences out.
Sometimes I feel like letting off steam about it too. :) So don't feel bad for doing so. |
Forgot to wear your cilice today did you sneezy?
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10/15/2010 04:19:23 PM · #8 |
Ok. I'll agree to disagree. Video games (like porn or drugs or sports cars or fancy homes or steak and lobster or anything else) are just a thing we do or use or partake of.
Can they be abused? Most certainly.
Does that abuse mean that the thing being abused is inherently WRONG? Uh, no.
It's all about moderation, and it's all about parenting and teaching our children how to use moderation and control in ALL that they do.
Every generation has it's designated demon, doesn't it? If it's not dirty dancing, it's racy novels, rock and roll, or whatever else.
The only thing that society will, in time, come to learn is that a greater turning to activities that allow an escape from reality is probably due to the fact that society ITSELF has become something that a lot of people need as escape FROM. Why? Well, we need to stop looking at the symptoms (like your precious hate for video games), and start looking at the SOURCE. An increasing inability for people to teach the basics of humanity to children from the start. Respect, dignity, humility, moderation, compassion, understanding...
The increasing loss of all of these things are what you should really be ranting about, if you need a rant.
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10/15/2010 04:23:26 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You speak my language doc. Both are systemic manifestations of the fact our society is based on christianity. It is well known that on repeated stimuli the brain requires less and less thinking to attain the same level of "confidence" in knowledge. Religion and indocrination such as in Christianity or Islam are caught up in a rat race of giving us pleasure from the illusion of knowledge and nobody questions whether this is healthy for our society or not. (well, I shouldn't say nobody, but generally very few seem to care). Nobody cares because the seeking of false knowledge is the highest good (ie. to cope and be happy). Those who do care are caught raising their children in this environment geared at maintaining pleasure for the addict. It is harder and harder to shut these influences out.
Sometimes I feel like letting off steam about it too. :) So don't feel bad for doing so. |
Sorry, Doc this is how I read your post. :P
Message edited by author 2010-10-15 16:24:30.
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10/15/2010 04:45:52 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You speak my language doc. Both are systemic manifestations of the fact our society is based on christianity. It is well known that on repeated stimuli the brain requires less and less thinking to attain the same level of "confidence" in knowledge. Religion and indocrination such as in Christianity or Islam are caught up in a rat race of giving us pleasure from the illusion of knowledge and nobody questions whether this is healthy for our society or not. (well, I shouldn't say nobody, but generally very few seem to care). Nobody cares because the seeking of false knowledge is the highest good (ie. to cope and be happy). Those who do care are caught raising their children in this environment geared at maintaining pleasure for the addict. It is harder and harder to shut these influences out.
Sometimes I feel like letting off steam about it too. :) So don't feel bad for doing so. |
Sorry, Doc this is how I read your post. :P |
Well, that's cuz you are one cynical bastard. :P (that's said in a friendly way.)
I could make my entire argument in this thread sans Christianity.
1) Our society's main concern is the seeking of pleasure.
2) Pleasure is a case of diminishing returns.
3) Culture is caught up in this vicious cycle of having to constantly provide more.
4) What was exciting and titilating twenty years ago is mundane and boring today.
5) Repeat, frequent exposure to both violence and pornography causes changes in the brain.
6) These changes show up in society in detremental ways.
Bam. Not once did I offend your fragile sensibilities while mentioning the G-word... :P
Message edited by author 2010-10-15 16:58:28. |
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10/15/2010 04:54:53 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Ok. I'll agree to disagree. Video games (like porn or drugs or sports cars or fancy homes or steak and lobster or anything else) are just a thing we do or use or partake of.
Can they be abused? Most certainly.
Does that abuse mean that the thing being abused is inherently WRONG? Uh, no.
It's all about moderation, and it's all about parenting and teaching our children how to use moderation and control in ALL that they do.
Every generation has it's designated demon, doesn't it? If it's not dirty dancing, it's racy novels, rock and roll, or whatever else.
The only thing that society will, in time, come to learn is that a greater turning to activities that allow an escape from reality is probably due to the fact that society ITSELF has become something that a lot of people need as escape FROM. Why? Well, we need to stop looking at the symptoms (like your precious hate for video games), and start looking at the SOURCE. An increasing inability for people to teach the basics of humanity to children from the start. Respect, dignity, humility, moderation, compassion, understanding...
The increasing loss of all of these things are what you should really be ranting about, if you need a rant. |
+1
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10/15/2010 05:08:24 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
1) Our society's main concern is the seeking of pleasure. |
It's supposed to be "the pursuit of happiness" -- a subtle but important distinction as I see it ... though actually is seems to be the amassing of obscene wealth.
I pretty much agree with the rest of your list. :-)
Message edited by author 2010-10-15 17:09:23. |
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10/15/2010 09:53:59 PM · #13 |
Bahahahahahahahahaha!!!
*cough*
Hahaha!!!
Oh yeah, my lucrative career owes nothing to video games... the media that got (and kept) me interested in computers, helped teach me problem solving, timing, and spatial skills, and finally pulled me into an industry that has been paying off ever since. Just like the legions of avid game-playing technical workers surrounding me in all the software development jobs I've held for the last two decades. The same folks who suddenly come down with a terrible cold and abandon the office on certain release dates, for some reason.
Yeah, those video games ain't done nothin' for nobody!
I think the real problem here is crappy parents. Look inside, Mom & Dad.
And so what if we wrote Diablo II to be addictive? So's coffee. Regulate yourself.
(I can't wait until my Blizzard descendants release Diablo III... 2011 can't come soon enough! Yep, I'm addicted too.)
You know what? It's the kids who play games who've handed you every major advance in computer technology since the invention of the PC and subsequent birth of home video gaming, give or take a bit of lead time. We're the ones building YOUR future, and I say that with defiant confidence.
Message edited by author 2010-10-15 21:54:59. |
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10/15/2010 10:11:41 PM · #14 |
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953)."
Today's children are indeed going downhill, just like every previous generation. |
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10/16/2010 01:02:05 AM · #15 |
| Children? Who was talking about children? |
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10/16/2010 02:38:47 AM · #16 |
| I decided to stop wasting my life and my money on video games years ago. It was one of the best decisions I've ever made, and I've never regretted it. I've benefited more from trying to accomplish things in reality than in some virtual world. Getting A's on my college papers has helped me a lot more in life than getting 1st place in Halo ever did. |
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10/16/2010 08:07:41 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
I decided to stop wasting my life and my money on video games years ago. It was one of the best decisions I've ever made, and I've never regretted it. I've benefited more from trying to accomplish things in reality than in some virtual world. Getting A's on my college papers has helped me a lot more in life than getting 1st place in Halo ever did. |
You got 1st place on Halo..how cool is that ;)..I can only dream... 1st place and a box of tissues .........
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10/16/2010 08:52:44 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
Bahahahahahahahahaha!!!
*cough*
Hahaha!!!
Oh yeah, my lucrative career owes nothing to video games... the media that got (and kept) me interested in computers, helped teach me problem solving, timing, and spatial skills, and finally pulled me into an industry that has been paying off ever since. Just like the legions of avid game-playing technical workers surrounding me in all the software development jobs I've held for the last two decades. The same folks who suddenly come down with a terrible cold and abandon the office on certain release dates, for some reason.
Yeah, those video games ain't done nothin' for nobody!
I think the real problem here is crappy parents. Look inside, Mom & Dad.
And so what if we wrote Diablo II to be addictive? So's coffee. Regulate yourself.
(I can't wait until my Blizzard descendants release Diablo III... 2011 can't come soon enough! Yep, I'm addicted too.)
You know what? It's the kids who play games who've handed you every major advance in computer technology since the invention of the PC and subsequent birth of home video gaming, give or take a bit of lead time. We're the ones building YOUR future, and I say that with defiant confidence. |
Very well said. The moral crusaders will always find something to scapegoat as  K10DGuy has pointed out. I'm sure people were accusing rock 'n roll of eroding society through changing the brains of its listeners decades back. |
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10/16/2010 11:16:15 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Very well said. The moral crusaders will always find something to scapegoat as K10DGuy has pointed out. I'm sure people were accusing rock 'n roll of eroding society through changing the brains of its listeners decades back. |
A joke from the Sixties:
Two older guys are talking ... "I don't know what's wrong with the kids today -- all they're interested in is sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll ... I sure miss the good old days when all we cared about was wine, women and song ..." |
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10/16/2010 11:51:48 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
I decided to stop wasting my life and my money on video games years ago. It was one of the best decisions I've ever made, and I've never regretted it. I've benefited more from trying to accomplish things in reality than in some virtual world. Getting A's on my college papers has helped me a lot more in life than getting 1st place in Halo ever did. |
I'm sorry to hear that you struggled with an addiction in your past. It's a very real and difficult problem, and I'm glad to know that you found a personal way to combat and move on from it. Many do, many never can.
I'm sure that you are well aware, of course, that the majority of people that enjoy video games do not have the same affliction(s). I'm sure that you're well aware that millions of people enjoy video games while at the same time successfully finish school, enter lucrative careers, hold down very busy and eventful lives, and are generally no different from anyone that chooses other things to occupy their free time. I'm sure you're well aware that in most cases, video games are only one of many different interests and hobbies and past-times of these people.
I guess I also don't have to tell you that out of these millions of people, there are also thousands that make an incredibly decent living BECAUSE of video games? Not just the people that create, develop, and publish these games, but people that play them. Professionally. People that probably make more money every year than YOU do -- and again -- lead successful, happy, productive lives.
Once again, I'm sorry that you were not able to be one of those people, and that you found yourself dealing with a very real problem regarding one form of entertainment. Kudos for moving forward. Just realize you're an exception instead of the norm. |
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10/16/2010 12:25:04 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
5) Repeat, frequent exposure to both violence and pornography causes changes in the brain.
6) These changes show up in society in detremental ways. |
I'd be interested to see any studies that show the correlation between these two points Doc. Particularly regarding simulated violence in media, computer games (Call Of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, Halo etc), film (Zombie Flesh Eaters, Indiana Jones, Spartacus etc) and music (Gangster Rap and Hip Hop, Country & Western, Dido etc) What part of the brain is changed to make people more violent?
Also,  johnnyphoto has admitted to being addicted to Halo in the past so i'm interested in how his brain was changed, and if it just naturally changed back once he kicked his game habit.
Message edited by author 2010-10-16 12:29:40. |
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10/16/2010 01:17:00 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by johnnyphoto:
I decided to stop wasting my life and my money on video games years ago. It was one of the best decisions I've ever made, and I've never regretted it. I've benefited more from trying to accomplish things in reality than in some virtual world. Getting A's on my college papers has helped me a lot more in life than getting 1st place in Halo ever did. |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I'm sorry to hear that you struggled with an addiction in your past. It's a very real and difficult problem, and I'm glad to know that you found a personal way to combat and move on from it. Many do, many never can.
I'm sure that you are well aware, of course, that the majority of people that enjoy video games do not have the same affliction(s). I'm sure that you're well aware that millions of people enjoy video games while at the same time successfully finish school, enter lucrative careers, hold down very busy and eventful lives, and are generally no different from anyone that chooses other things to occupy their free time. I'm sure you're well aware that in most cases, video games are only one of many different interests and hobbies and past-times of these people.
I guess I also don't have to tell you that out of these millions of people, there are also thousands that make an incredibly decent living BECAUSE of video games? Not just the people that create, develop, and publish these games, but people that play them. Professionally. People that probably make more money every year than YOU do -- and again -- lead successful, happy, productive lives.
Once again, I'm sorry that you were not able to be one of those people, and that you found yourself dealing with a very real problem regarding one form of entertainment. Kudos for moving forward. Just realize you're an exception instead of the norm. |
As someone else who suffers an addictive personality type, and has managed to understand and accept who I am, I can no more blame video games for the decline of civilization than I can blame a bullet for the killing of someone rather than the person who pulled the trigger. I understand obsession, and struggle mightily with it, yet to blame the focus of my obsession for the problem is just plain erroneous. Having fought with substance abuse, a particularly virulent form of obsession, one thing that becomes apparent if you're lucky, is that you can substitute healthier pursuits to channel your obsessive traits. Anything done to extremes (Like the friggin' Rant forum....) can have a detrimental effect on this personality type, so vigilance is a must.
It takes a fair amount of help and guidance to learn how to effectively deal with an obsessive personality, and it should fall on the parents of children to keep an eye out for the extremes of any behaviors. But as has been pointed out, there have been many things historically that have been easy outlets for obsessive behaviors....drugs, sex, rock n' roll, fast cars, various sports......haven't we all known that guy or girl that basically sequestered themself for life in a determined effort to develop some talent or interest that turned them into a total social misfit? yeah.......that 13 year old can play any piano concerto written, but when was the last time he went out for pizza with the rest of the kids? And oftentimes in the case of child prodigies, the parents help to create this tunnel-visioned, socially dysfunctional creature in an effort to develop a unique skill or talent.
As an interesting aside......25 years ago, there were very few soccer fields around here, and they were mostly used by the kids who couldn't cut it on the football or track team.......now scarcely a week goes by when you don't hear of unruly parents getting into fights over their kids' teams on the sidelines. There are a lot of kids on soccer fields around here that wouldn't play were it not for their parents competing vicariously through them. And these fileds are EVERYWHERE now....
Last notes......I am much happier pouring all my obsessive behavior into photography than I was with a drug habit. And having been in a couple threads with johnnyphoto, it sure seems to me that in some ways he's substituting as well.......8~)
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10/16/2010 01:23:41 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
As someone else who suffers an addictive personality type, and has managed to understand and accept who I am, I can no more blame video games for the decline of civilization than I can blame a bullet for the killing of someone rather than the person who pulled the trigger. |
It's not a matter of blaming the bullet -- it's blaming the arms maufacturer who makes and aggressively markets those products rather than something more socially useful. |
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10/16/2010 01:25:16 PM · #24 |
COMPUTER GAMES V PORN..
No argument, porn wins everytime.
Maybe I will read this thread from the start as this seems a pretty easy question even for me.
EDIT (after reading thread)- Oooooooh, that wasnt as straightforward as the topic suggests.
Message edited by author 2010-10-16 13:26:10. |
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10/16/2010 01:38:55 PM · #25 |
If anyone is interested in a very interesting (and funny), level headed look at computer games i very highly recommend watching Charlie Brooker's Gameswipe- first part here on YouTube..
Message edited by author 2010-10-16 13:44:35. |
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