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03/20/2011 07:47:10 PM · #1 |
I need to vent...
DPC has been for years and years a great inspiration to me. I've leaped ahead thanks to being part of it and learned so much. At the beginning it's a tough ride when you're new to it as you try so hard for that ribbon... But there comes a point when you realize, it's not about the ribbons... The best thing you take away from this site is the experience, the wonderful ides of people who are not afraid to push the limits...
But there is a side to DPC that constantly irks me off. It is the narrow mindedness of some people and their close-minded interpretations and judgement of possibilities beyond their small world.
Why not open your mind and let the ideas flow. Explore, learn, enjoy. Forget the ribbons, or scores, or "this challenge is really not about this, but it is this and this..." Why not step out of the line and let yourself fall... Submit something totally our of your character, experiment, and you'll discover how much you'll learn and it will change you, and your photography will take a leap into another level. Forget judging others... look at yourself and ask yourself - am I free in my creativity or am I stuck in a narrow street without a space to breathe... Am I doing the same "cookie-cutter" landscapes (or fill another topic here) over and over, because they are "pretty" and also because they are "pretty safe"...
Oh, this site could be so much more if people just let go of their pre-conceptions and OPEN THEIR MINDS!
Anyone feels the same? Am I the only nut who is so frustrated by this? |
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03/20/2011 07:50:58 PM · #2 |
There are a lot of people here who feel just like you, you can find their pictures in all the challenges if you just look away from the eye candy ones.
Also, check the side challenges, you'll find a whole lot of (more) interesting stuff in those than you will in the main challenges, people often shoot much better stuff when they're not aiming for ribbons. |
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03/20/2011 07:56:49 PM · #3 |
I am not sure what you mean. Not sure if your beating up on people like me or the ones who are always winning lol.
I am not an artist frankly I open my eyes and see nothing but trash, or atleast when I photograph it thats what it is to people. But the real artists can photograph the same thing and turn it into gold. I just like gadgets and I know how to use my camera, thats about as far as my photography goes. The camera never captures what I see, but i do learn a little bit. |
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03/20/2011 08:12:44 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
I am not sure what you mean. Not sure if your beating up on people like me or the ones who are always winning lol.
I am not an artist frankly I open my eyes and see nothing but trash, or atleast when I photograph it thats what it is to people. But the real artists can photograph the same thing and turn it into gold. I just like gadgets and I know how to use my camera, thats about as far as my photography goes. The camera never captures what I see, but i do learn a little bit. |
Maybe that's the way you see yourself now. But imagine in few years... Don't you believe you'll be ahead and looking back how much you've learned? You don't have to be an "artsy fartsy" artist to be creative...
I was not beating on anyone. I was venting. That's all. This is a rant thread, isn't it? Just opening up a conversation trying to encourage creativity... |
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03/20/2011 08:32:56 PM · #5 |
I used to invite people who complained about an overabundance of DNMC pictures in a challenge to send me (links to) any three, and I would offer to tell them exactly how I thought (the photographer felt) the photo related to the challenge topic ... however I can't really remember if anyone took me up on it.
I think the system we have here simply works against photos which require any significant period of thought to judge -- the majority of people view an image for something like 3-5 seconds before deciding on their vote.
I think it would be interesting if, instead of having to vote on a minimum of 20% of the entries, people were restricted to a maximum of 25% of the entries, with each voter being assigned a random 25% block of images. Without the pressure to vote on a large number of pictures, they might be inclined to consider the images they do get to rate a bit more extensively. |
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03/20/2011 08:43:11 PM · #6 |
 timmi, I believe you're also talking to yourself here... 4-5 challenge entries a year, only 58 since 2003!
When you encourage people, you should also give examples from yourself, which is lacking here.
I have this ADD, so I might totally missed your point, and if I did, sorry. |
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03/20/2011 08:44:41 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I think it would be interesting if, instead of having to vote on a minimum of 20% of the entries, people were restricted to a maximum of 25% of the entries, with each voter being assigned a random 25% block of images. Without the pressure to vote on a large number of pictures, they might be inclined to consider the images they do get to rate a bit more extensively. |
This is a really interesting idea. I sometimes get put off voting at all by the vastness of it and just don't bother. If it were a limited thing people may actually vote more. |
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03/20/2011 08:45:19 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I think it would be interesting if, instead of having to vote on a minimum of 20% of the entries, people were restricted to a maximum of 25% of the entries, with each voter being assigned a random 25% block of images. Without the pressure to vote on a large number of pictures, they might be inclined to consider the images they do get to rate a bit more extensively. |
AND/OR a forced 10-15 second waiting period before a vote is allowed to stop the 5 5 5 5 7 5 5 8 voters and force people to really look at an image before voting. it would decrease the number of votes but increase the quality/appreciation of them, IMO (and it might even discourage the 1 1 1 7 1 1 1 7 voters AND those 15 seconds might find voters bored enough to comment more while they wait?)
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03/20/2011 08:46:17 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I used to invite people who complained about an overabundance of DNMC pictures in a challenge to send me (links to) any three, and I would offer to tell them exactly how I thought (the photographer felt) the photo related to the challenge topic ... however I can't really remember if anyone took me up on it.
I think the system we have here simply works against photos which require any significant period of thought to judge -- the majority of people view an image for something like 3-5 seconds before deciding on their vote.
I think it would be interesting if, instead of having to vote on a minimum of 20% of the entries, people were restricted to a maximum of 25% of the entries, with each voter being assigned a random 25% block of images. Without the pressure to vote on a large number of pictures, they might be inclined to consider the images they do get to rate a bit more extensively. |
That's a very interesting explanation. I never though of it that way. Plus the fact that photography is very subjective field. When you ad the 3-5 seconds decision time to the subjective mind, that narrows it down even further.
My main frustration comes from the forum threads themselves. Most of the time I actually try to stay away from discussions about challenges, because it usually results in me being very frustrated with people's exact interpretations. I know I should take it as it is, and realize it is just a "typed" message without the emotion of it (like e-mails)... But when I read them and try to contribute I run my head into a wall.
I remember the times of Setzler and Jacko... The discussions in the forums used to be sooo open and creative and fun. Maybe I am getting too old for this :)))) |
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03/20/2011 08:53:15 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
timmi, I believe you're also talking to yourself here... 4-5 challenge entries a year, only 58 since 2003!
When you encourage people, you should also give examples from yourself, which is lacking here.
I have this ADD, so I might totally missed your point, and if I did, sorry. |
Just because I don't enter as many challenges here, doesn't mean I don't contribute on regular basis. I vote on lot of challenges, and give constructive comments. I connect with people through personal messages. It's a luxury to have time to shoot for challenges. And to tell you the truth, it is the exact reason I am ranting here, why I do not enter as often. |
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03/20/2011 09:00:24 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I used to invite people who complained about an overabundance of DNMC pictures in a challenge to send me (links to) any three, and I would offer to tell them exactly how I thought (the photographer felt) the photo related to the challenge topic/ |
I'll through this option out there as well. Great idea. |
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03/20/2011 09:00:29 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by timmi:
...it is the exact reason I am ranting here, why I do not enter as often. |
Well, I would lie if I say I don't understand you because I myself quit twice. Each time I think I built another layer of skin.
I say, just enter as much as challenges possible. People here enter more challenges seem like doing better... both in photography and mentally (so it seems) |
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03/20/2011 09:03:12 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by timmi:
....photography is very subjective field. .... |
There are sites which meet your requirement of anything goes. At least for now, DPChallenge is a photography site with various sets of post processing rules. That is a good market niche, which is enjoyed by many. At least participants must have a time constrained capture as the base for the challenge submission. Do you object to this? |
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03/20/2011 09:06:27 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
Originally posted by timmi:
...it is the exact reason I am ranting here, why I do not enter as often. |
Well, I would lie if I say I don't understand you because I myself quit twice. Each time I think I built another layer of skin.
I say, just enter as much as challenges possible. People here enter more challenges seem like doing better... both in photography and mentally (so it seems) |
I wasn't really complaining about challenges though... I enter when I feel like it and enjoy it every time. I do not really care much for ribbons. I love reading comments on other photos and just plain enjoying other's photography. DPC is just a small fraction of what I do in photography. I run workshops, I attend meetups, I do a LOT on pBase.com. I travel extensively and shoot as often as I can.
What frustrates me is forums. It happens every time I post. Like I said, I run into a wall.
I think I need a helmet from now on :))) |
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03/20/2011 09:08:37 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by timmi:
....photography is very subjective field. .... |
There are sites which meet your requirement of anything goes. At least for now, DPChallenge is a photography site with various sets of post processing rules. That is a good market niche, which is enjoyed by many. At least participants must have a time constrained capture as the base for the challenge submission. Do you object to this? |
No, not really. My rant was not about rules at all. I have no issues with DPC rules. My issue was with the way people narrow down the possibilities of different way of seeing things. I guess I am not explaining it the right way. |
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03/20/2011 09:13:15 PM · #16 |
I've been here long enough to know what DPC is and what it isn't. Like I said, I've learned a lot from here. After 8 years, I think I know the rules pretty well. I have no issues with DPC itself. I get frustrated by the fact, that the minute a challenge gets announced, you will have several threads going down and narrowing it what it should and shouldn't be.
All I was saying is, if people once in a while let go of the "this is the way I am going to do it"... and ask themselves... what if? what if this time I do it differently... wouldn't you think creativity would grow? |
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03/20/2011 09:15:10 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by timmi:
I've been here long enough to know what DPC is and what it isn't. Like I said, I've learned a lot from here. After 8 years, I think I know the rules pretty well. I have no issues with DPC itself. I get frustrated by the fact, that the minute a challenge gets announced, you will have several threads going down and narrowing it what it should and shouldn't be.
All I was saying is, if people once in a while let go of the "this is the way I am going to do it"... and ask themselves... what if? what if this time I do it differently... wouldn't you think creativity would grow? |
98% of the time I don't read those threads...
then again, my last two entries were brown ribbons...
then again, that doesn't bother me... |
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03/20/2011 09:26:27 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
Originally posted by timmi:
...it is the exact reason I am ranting here, why I do not enter as often. |
Well, I would lie if I say I don't understand you because I myself quit twice. Each time I think I built another layer of skin.
I say, just enter as much as challenges possible. People here enter more challenges seem like doing better... both in photography and mentally (so it seems) |
You mean... entering a challenge is better than those round pink pills in my purse ??? :)))) |
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03/20/2011 09:27:34 PM · #19 |
I have to admit that I opened this thread and saw Timmi's name and thought, "Geez... this must be some REALLY old thread that somebody resurrected." Good to see you around!
I have no complaints about DPC creativity. Those who go out on a limb often make the most memorable images, and the people who stay in their little boxes can be ignored since they only handicap themselves and make the fun stuff shine that much brighter. Even the most brilliant, on-target entries get a few low votes and since those people are either not voting the merits of the image or have ummm... deviant personal taste, I don't put much stock in their opinions. |
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03/20/2011 09:27:51 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by timmi:
I've been here long enough to know what DPC is and what it isn't. Like I said, I've learned a lot from here. After 8 years, I think I know the rules pretty well. I have no issues with DPC itself. I get frustrated by the fact, that the minute a challenge gets announced, you will have several threads going down and narrowing it what it should and shouldn't be.
All I was saying is, if people once in a while let go of the "this is the way I am going to do it"... and ask themselves... what if? what if this time I do it differently... wouldn't you think creativity would grow? |
98% of the time I don't read those threads...
then again, my last two entries were brown ribbons...
then again, that doesn't bother me... |
Well, today I've learned that I will not stick my nose into forums either. People just don't have a clue what the heck am I talking about... |
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03/20/2011 09:29:58 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I have to admit that I opened this thread and saw Timmi's name and thought, "Geez... this must be some REALLY old thread that somebody resurrected." Good to see you around!
I have no complaints about DPC creativity. Those who go out on a limb often make the most memorable images, and the people who stay in their little boxes can be ignored since they only handicap themselves and make the fun stuff shine that much brighter. Even the most brilliant, on-target entries get a few low votes and since those people are either not voting the merits of the image or have ummm... deviant personal taste, I don't put much stock in their opinions. |
Hello "old-timer" :))) I should have learned already, shouldn't I... Do not stick my schnauze into the forums... Shut your mouth and just keep swimming... just keep swimming :))) |
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03/20/2011 09:33:05 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by timmi:
....
Well, today I've learned that I will not stick my nose into forums either. People just don't have a clue what the heck am I talking about... |
I understand completely what you are saying. I agree with you that challenges should not be redefined to narrower constraints than indicated by the challenge description. And, no one should impose their "narrow-minded" opinions on others. And, this should be a two way street. |
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03/20/2011 09:37:20 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by timmi:
...I should have learned already, shouldn't I... |
Originally posted by timmi:
I've been here long enough to know what DPC is and what it isn't. Like I said, I've learned a lot from here... |
You seem like still learning. So, I re-suggest my idea to you. Enter as much as challenges you can, no matter what. Even if you're traveling, grab your camera, shoot and upload. Maybe, just maybe, that's what's missing. |
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03/20/2011 09:43:19 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by timmi:
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
I am not sure what you mean. Not sure if your beating up on people like me or the ones who are always winning lol.
I am not an artist frankly I open my eyes and see nothing but trash, or atleast when I photograph it thats what it is to people. But the real artists can photograph the same thing and turn it into gold. I just like gadgets and I know how to use my camera, thats about as far as my photography goes. The camera never captures what I see, but i do learn a little bit. |
Maybe that's the way you see yourself now. But imagine in few years... Don't you believe you'll be ahead and looking back how much you've learned? You don't have to be an "artsy fartsy" artist to be creative...
I was not beating on anyone. I was venting. That's all. This is a rant thread, isn't it? Just opening up a conversation trying to encourage creativity... |
I managed to fail art classes in high school even though I participated and turned in the freakin assignments. As far as DPC its coming up on a few years now i think. The only thing that has changed is my equipment which was severely limiting my ability to light. Only thing that changed from pre dpc days is i stopped shooting film. |
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03/20/2011 09:43:34 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
...deviant personal taste, I don't put much stock in their opinions. |
All progress is made by deviants, since progress requires deviation. |
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