DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Can you help me with my light?
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 24 of 24, (reverse)
AuthorThread
03/24/2011 11:08:53 PM · #1
Hello,

As discussed on other threads, I'm going to attempt to be the "photographer" for my daughter's senior photos. I'm going to give it a go in about a month...before it gets too hot. The deal is that if I can't pull it off ...(she'll know and I'll know...but most of all, "mom" will know) we will hire a well known photographer to do the shoot next fall.

I'm putting a shot below that was taken this weekend. No planning on garments, hair, makeup etc. However, I did use my light meter on a human for the first time. In addition, these were done at Midday in shade with SB800 flash...no gel.

This photo is directly out of the camera...taken in jpeg format. Only a crop and resize was done. Of course after some curves and levels, this photo looks much better.

Can you tell me if you think my first try with the light meter looks ok? I took about 15 photos and all were about the same as far as the lighting.

Is there any tips you could offer on metering?



Thanks,

Kenskid
03/24/2011 11:24:08 PM · #2
Are you shooting in manual?
Is the flash being used off-camera in manual or on camera in ettl?

Will help to know how you intend to shoot.

Image shown seems to show the lens is front focusing.
If you use f4 you will have less trouble with DOF and with her head on a slight angle it will be more likely to have both the eyes in focus. Use the lens at 70mm and bring her further away from the background to help with the bokeh.

Message edited by author 2011-03-24 23:29:26.
03/24/2011 11:32:57 PM · #3
Pretty dang good "first try" sir.

It appears that you have some blocked highlights on the skin--cant be sure, of course, if this is in the original in-camera file, or a result of processing. When shooting with the d90, you can go to the RGB histogram display and check there. It can be more accurate than the white histogram, and you can zoom in on the RGB as well, see the histogram just for the zoomed area. In particular, when shooting people, pay extra attention to the red histogram. It can sneak off the right side, meaning you likely have a hot spot on the skin. (when the calculations for the "white" histogram are made, this may get factored out, and it can mislead you).

If you are shooting RAW also, you can have a bit of room there, but you have a little less margin for recovery if you are shooting jpeg only.

Did you have the stofen diffuser on the SB800? And was the light on camera, or off camera? Catchlight suggests on-camera. You might want to play with it on a stand, as this will give you options for lighting and shadows, less of a flat fill light.

It is clear you are going to have some fun shooting happening soon! :-)

03/24/2011 11:34:09 PM · #4
Yes...all manual. Flash is on camera with diffuser. However, all on manual.

I fired the flash into the meter as I held it near her face.

I did experiment with different f-stops and the 4+ did focus better.

When I do this for real, I'll likely have some help. This means off cam flash if needed as well as some reflectors and may even bring my softbox along.

Thanks for the tip on the f-stop and focus.

Originally posted by RamblinR:

Are you shooting in manual?
Is the flash being used off-camera in manual or on camera in ettl?

Will help to know how you intend to shoot.

Image shown seems to show the lens is front focusing.
If you use f4 you will have less trouble with DOF and with her head on a slight angle it will be more likely to have both the eyes in focus. Use the lens at 70mm and bring her further away from the background to help with the bokeh.
03/24/2011 11:37:45 PM · #5
Thanks dome...

See reply to Ramblin above. Also...this was jpeg out of the cam. I'll surely do raw for the shoot. Thanks for the histogram info.

Can you tell me exactly what "blocked highlights" are. I know what blown highlights are and according the the d90, this photo did not have any...at least on the model.

Thanks again,

Originally posted by chromeydome:

Pretty dang good "first try" sir.

It appears that you have some blocked highlights on the skin--cant be sure, of course, if this is in the original in-camera file, or a result of processing. When shooting with the d90, you can go to the RGB histogram display and check there. It can be more accurate than the white histogram, and you can zoom in on the RGB as well, see the histogram just for the zoomed area. In particular, when shooting people, pay extra attention to the red histogram. It can sneak off the right side, meaning you likely have a hot spot on the skin. (when the calculations for the "white" histogram are made, this may get factored out, and it can mislead you).

If you are shooting RAW also, you can have a bit of room there, but you have a little less margin for recovery if you are shooting jpeg only.

Did you have the stofen diffuser on the SB800? And was the light on camera, or off camera? Catchlight suggests on-camera. You might want to play with it on a stand, as this will give you options for lighting and shadows, less of a flat fill light.

It is clear you are going to have some fun shooting happening soon! :-)
03/24/2011 11:53:09 PM · #6
Are you using a selective focus point and positioning it on the closest eye?
Your shutter speed is 1/400 - are you using high speed sync for the flash?

I would bring my shutter back down to flash sync speed (not sure what that is for the D90) but dropping to f4 should bring it back to 1/200 (this is all going to depend on the conditions at the time so practice with different conditions till you fell confident with settings). As they are posing for the shots and they are keeping still a shutter speed of 1/125 is fine (could even go lower if need be but I like to stay at around 1/80).

If the lighting if pretty good you will only require fill flash which can be done by adjusting the FEC.

Good luck

Message edited by author 2011-03-25 00:56:10.
03/25/2011 12:08:51 AM · #7
Originally posted by kenskid:

Can you tell me exactly what "blocked highlights" are. I know what blown highlights are and according the the d90, this photo did not have any...at least on the model.


Blocked is usually used to refer to shadows, but it works for highlights as well. it refers to an area where when printed a single color will be lain down often creating a sheen of ink. while nothing looks blown, areas of the face, chest, and arm have a uniform tone with almost no skin detail (at least on my cheezy monitor). They tend to make a portrait look a bit waxy.

Does your daughter have any particular style that she wants for her portrait? She looks sweet, kind and patient, just the sort of look a good daughter gives her dad. Having a buddy of hers around might get a different expression (if it is wanted) shifting the dynamic to more who she is around her peers, with different body language or modes of expression. Or there are the model games of having them tell stories or act out different emotions, but I know how tough it is to shoot family sometimes.

Message edited by author 2011-03-25 00:12:07.
03/25/2011 12:09:38 AM · #8
I use "blocked" and "blown" interchangeably...

So, on my calibrated monitor, the skin on her rear arm and on her chest starting just below the throat seems overexposed, with no texture or structure to the skin. Some of that could be the shallow dof and the resulting blur. And I am not saying it is bad, per se. For a higher key image, could be just what you want to do. But since you are asking about the light, the metering, I pointed it out.

You can use 2.8 for shots like this, but you need to be careful with the focus. If eyes are looking into the lens, the closest eye should generally be in focus if only one eye is to be in focus. If the subject is looking away, you can go for more motion blur, etc., without worrying about the eyes as much. And these are general guidelines of course, not Legal Enforceable Rules :-)

ETA: shutter sync speed on the d90 is 1/200th. You can get a dark band if you shoot faster than that, and it will be VERY evident if your light source is only your speedlight. In bright ambient, where you are attempting fill light only, you might get away with higher. High speed sync can be used, but the actual output power drops, as the flash fires in rapid-fire lower power pulses during the exposure.

Also, if your plan is lots of outdoor portraits, you can do wonders with reflectors, etc, and may not even need speedlights at all in some scenarios. I would avoid the "flat light" that can sometimes result from adding too much fill with a flash, particularly from on-camera, directly from the front.

Message edited by author 2011-03-25 00:18:18.
03/25/2011 12:25:20 AM · #9
One more thing, and then I'll stop! :-)

Get one of those folding three step step-stools. Experiment with shooting from above (not directly above all the time, but just from angles different than your normal standing height). Also try lower angles, etc.

Message edited by author 2011-03-25 03:30:39.
03/25/2011 01:53:24 AM · #10
OK, I don't have experience with the instruments being discussed but just want to put across a few things :-

1) On basis of what I have read, during day time mostly fill in flash and or reflectors suffice. The image you had given is a lot blown out as others have suggested.

2) you may choose the background a bit better for the contrast, here flash may help you. In your image the lower left corner is distracting because of lack of contrast. right side background seems to have better contrast ( kind of the one you should be looking for )

3) you may also consider leaving some margin for cropping later ( if needed ). Here it is too tight on right.
03/25/2011 03:26:09 AM · #11
A lot of good advice. Just have fun. Mix it up and experiment.
03/25/2011 06:35:23 PM · #12
Thanks all for the info. I'm printing the key points.

Also...I'll upload another one from the other day that has been edited in Photoshop.

Thanks
03/25/2011 11:04:30 PM · #13
Here is another from the same day. Still midday. We moved to the side of the house with an open area that was shaded. No reflector...just the on cam SB800. Metered and set in manual.

I did adjust curves on this one along with the basic blur/sharp eye...lips etc...

Comments on what is right or not so right will be appreciated.


03/25/2011 11:59:13 PM · #14
You have very pretty daughter Ken, and I think you're on the right path here. As others have suggested...try getting your flash off camera to create some depth etc. On camera flash flattens out the face when removing shadows and can be very harsh. I think you did a great job metering here and her skin tones look even without any areas being blown out. So that's good, but even with your editing the file is still a bit flat looking and washed out.

Of course it's all a matter of taste, but in my edit here I gave the photo a bit more punch and contrast with separates her from the background more and gives it dimension. I like the effect you got with your aperture setting and distance to the wall as it provides a nice back drop. I also did a very very subtle skin smoothing on top of what you have done (I didn't so any spot editing...but could have.) I also brightened her eyes slightly to make them pop a little more.

As I said...I think you're on the right track. Mind you...I'm not known for shooting a lot of portraits, but this is my opinion.

Dave



03/26/2011 12:11:05 AM · #15
nice work....well at least I now know I at least I'm creating something I can work with.

Originally posted by DCNUTTER:

You have very pretty daughter Ken, and I think you're on the right path here. As others have suggested...try getting your flash off camera to create some depth etc. On camera flash flattens out the face when removing shadows and can be very harsh. I think you did a great job metering here and her skin tones look even without any areas being blown out. So that's good, but even with your editing the file is still a bit flat looking and washed out.

Of course it's all a matter of taste, but in my edit here I gave the photo a bit more punch and contrast with separates her from the background more and gives it dimension. I like the effect you got with your aperture setting and distance to the wall as it provides a nice back drop. I also did a very very subtle skin smoothing on top of what you have done (I didn't so any spot editing...but could have.) I also brightened her eyes slightly to make them pop a little more.

As I said...I think you're on the right track. Mind you...I'm not known for shooting a lot of portraits, but this is my opinion.

Dave

03/26/2011 12:11:36 AM · #16
Definitely on the right track. I think your shutter speed says 1/320th here, so that probably explains the gray band starting to show up on the edge of the image. You'll need to stay at 1/200th or slower to avoid that.

When you are in studio, where ALL the light will be provided by your strobes, speedlights, typically you choose the shot you want in terms of dof first ("I want a f4 headshot") and set your main/key light to be at f4 using your meter. You then confirm that your meter and camera are both set to the same ISO, set your camera to 1/200th and f4, and shoot. Add a fill or reflector as needed, etc.

Outdoors you have some options on the approach. This is one method that can work: Shoot the scene without any flash, at the aperture you plan to use. Alter the shutter speed/ISO as needed (keeping the 1/200th for the D90 in mind) to get the ambient light the way you want it. If you are shooting with sky/clouds in the background, adjust the shutter speed to get the sky the way you want it to appear in the shot. You might have to alter the aperture, as well. Now you have your baseline exposure for your ambient. Then you look at the shot, decide if you want flash for fill, or for accent/rim, or for key light.

More later--gotta go answer the door :-)
03/26/2011 10:37:59 AM · #17
Door at midnight ! Are you ok? LOL....

So set up the shot like I was shooting the "scene" get the scene exposed right and then decide how to light the subject.... Is lighting the subject at that point "trial and error"? Simple as adjusting flash/reflector and shooting...review...and then shoot again?

Edit: Is that what that "band" is? I see it on some of the other shots and didn't know what it was. I thought it was some unknown shadow being cast !

Thanks

Originally posted by chromeydome:

Definitely on the right track. I think your shutter speed says 1/320th here, so that probably explains the gray band starting to show up on the edge of the image. You'll need to stay at 1/200th or slower to avoid that.

When you are in studio, where ALL the light will be provided by your strobes, speedlights, typically you choose the shot you want in terms of dof first ("I want a f4 headshot") and set your main/key light to be at f4 using your meter. You then confirm that your meter and camera are both set to the same ISO, set your camera to 1/200th and f4, and shoot. Add a fill or reflector as needed, etc.

Outdoors you have some options on the approach. This is one method that can work: Shoot the scene without any flash, at the aperture you plan to use. Alter the shutter speed/ISO as needed (keeping the 1/200th for the D90 in mind) to get the ambient light the way you want it. If you are shooting with sky/clouds in the background, adjust the shutter speed to get the sky the way you want it to appear in the shot. You might have to alter the aperture, as well. Now you have your baseline exposure for your ambient. Then you look at the shot, decide if you want flash for fill, or for accent/rim, or for key light.

More later--gotta go answer the door :-)


Message edited by author 2011-03-26 10:39:05.
03/26/2011 12:01:33 PM · #18
You should give the TTL system a try -- most of the time it is very well behaved for outdoor portraits with fill flash (as long as you are not trying to deal with some background which is way brighter or darker than your subject). And if most of the light is ambient with just a modest amount of fill flash (I tend to set the fill flash for around 2 to 2-1/3 stops under-lit on the TTL system) then you will have enough light coming from one side or another that generally you won't have an issue with with the flash flattening the face. Definitely use the little diffuser on your flash as you are doing. Consider buying a flash bracket as this will move the fill flash off to the side a bit if you don't want to set up stands and stuff. And try later in the day rather than mid-day.
03/26/2011 12:26:51 PM · #19
RE: Sync Speed
Check through your SB800 settings to see if you have Auto-FP enabled, same with on your D90. The sort of shots you're trying to do won't suffer problems from the decrease in output from high speed sync. Should you want to kill ambient more but maintain narrow depth of field, crank up your shutter speed and put it into Auto-FP. You'll be able to "sync" above your 1/200 sync speed. This is not an acceptable fix for all situations, but works for yours. Auto-FP works by having the flash strobe for the duration of your shutter swipe, which lowers total output. This sucks if you're using every ounce of power, but can be awesome if you're not.
03/26/2011 12:46:16 PM · #20
Great model....Both are good images, really like the 2nd one. What I noticed is the exposure is the same through out the image. You might try to under expose the image by 1 or 2 stops prior to adding the flash/modifiers. It will separate the model from the background. Keep us updated, looking good! (love threads like this, helps us all learn).
03/26/2011 08:26:13 PM · #21
Thanks again,

I'm still learning and from the comments it looks like I did a decent job for a trial run.

My daughter can't model as much as I would like. She is very busy with school at this time of year.
I'm thinking about posting an "ad" to my 300+ family and friends on Facebook. Basically I'd ask them to model....for FREE while I learn. With the understanding that I'm learning and the photos may look as such. I would then practice my Photoshop skills and give them a few good ones for "payment". I think it is a win/win situation.
Has anyone tried this type of thing before?

Thanks,
03/26/2011 09:41:06 PM · #22
Originally posted by kenskid:

Thanks again,

I'm still learning and from the comments it looks like I did a decent job for a trial run.

My daughter can't model as much as I would like. She is very busy with school at this time of year.
I'm thinking about posting an "ad" to my 300+ family and friends on Facebook. Basically I'd ask them to model....for FREE while I learn. With the understanding that I'm learning and the photos may look as such. I would then practice my Photoshop skills and give them a few good ones for "payment". I think it is a win/win situation.
Has anyone tried this type of thing before?

Thanks,


I haven't tried such a thing with a Facebook ad directed towards your friends, but I think it's a smart idea, and should yield you some good models. Definitely worth a try. Not sure if the whole ad thing is needed...but why not right? Wouldn't it be just as easy to send a group message out to all your friends explaining the situation?

Dave

Message edited by author 2011-03-26 22:13:46.
03/27/2011 12:26:00 AM · #23
Hee hee....oh...I wouldn't put the word "ad" in the offer ! I was just using some pro sounding talk ! It will just be a post to my profile once a week or so. There's tons of relatives and friends which includes teens, couples, etc.... in my friends list.

I'll think more about it tonight. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Kenny

Originally posted by DCNUTTER:

Originally posted by kenskid:

Thanks again,

I'm still learning and from the comments it looks like I did a decent job for a trial run.

My daughter can't model as much as I would like. She is very busy with school at this time of year.
I'm thinking about posting an "ad" to my 300+ family and friends on Facebook. Basically I'd ask them to model....for FREE while I learn. With the understanding that I'm learning and the photos may look as such. I would then practice my Photoshop skills and give them a few good ones for "payment". I think it is a win/win situation.
Has anyone tried this type of thing before?

Thanks,


I haven't tried such a thing with a Facebook ad directed towards your friends, but I think it's a smart idea, and should yield you some good models. Definitely worth a try. Not sure if the whole ad thing is needed...but why not right? Wouldn't it be just as easy to send a group message out to all your friends explaining the situation?

Dave
03/27/2011 01:02:00 AM · #24
Originally posted by kenskid:

Hee hee....oh...I wouldn't put the word "ad" in the offer ! I was just using some pro sounding talk ! It will just be a post to my profile once a week or so. There's tons of relatives and friends which includes teens, couples, etc.... in my friends list.

I'll think more about it tonight. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Kenny

Originally posted by DCNUTTER:

Originally posted by kenskid:

Thanks again,

I'm still learning and from the comments it looks like I did a decent job for a trial run.

My daughter can't model as much as I would like. She is very busy with school at this time of year.
I'm thinking about posting an "ad" to my 300+ family and friends on Facebook. Basically I'd ask them to model....for FREE while I learn. With the understanding that I'm learning and the photos may look as such. I would then practice my Photoshop skills and give them a few good ones for "payment". I think it is a win/win situation.
Has anyone tried this type of thing before?

Thanks,


I haven't tried such a thing with a Facebook ad directed towards your friends, but I think it's a smart idea, and should yield you some good models. Definitely worth a try. Not sure if the whole ad thing is needed...but why not right? Wouldn't it be just as easy to send a group message out to all your friends explaining the situation?

Dave


Yes, let me know. I thought you were talking about actual Facebook ads. Users can create their own ad that shows up on the side of their friends pages I guess. As far as I know anyone can do it. It's not like a paid Google ad or anything like that, but is placed in the same manner.
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 03/28/2024 01:48:13 PM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2024 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 03/28/2024 01:48:13 PM EDT.