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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> 13 minute pee break
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04/06/2011 08:31:48 PM · #1
...that's one of the rules of the company my wife works for.

I wanted to get the opinion of people from around the world on this. Everyone knows I live in Japan. My wife works for one of the biggest Networking companies here in the claims department. She's an excellent worker and has won awards at her work. BUT over the last 10 years, I keep hearing the crap she has to put up with and I'm SURE nowhere else in the world would have you put up with it.

First, the pee break. They get 13 minutes per shift. They go over that and they get penalized. They are able to count it because you log of from your computer then swip your ID to leave the main area and go to the toilets. However, if you go (According to my wife) and there's a bit of a line, you had better just go back. That way you don't use up your minutes standing in line. The penalties vary from a drop in wage to not being accepted for promotion. As a guy, I have no problem holding it in. However, as I understand it, the ladies have a smaller bladder (I could be wrong) and need to go more often. Because of this, there's also the tendency for the ladies NOT to drink enough water throughout the day for fear of having to go to the toilet. Of course they get a break to eat and use the toilet but before and after it's a nightmare.

Second, and more troubling, is how abusive the customers are allowed to get. My sister worked for Rogers in Canada and whenever they got a rowdy customer they would always warn them that if they continued to use such language that they would hang up. And quite often they would. If threats were ever made, police were called. At the company my wife works at even DEATH THREATS are not handled this way. She simply has to keep apologizing for not being able to do whatever it is he/she wants her to do. My wife is one of the section chiefs so almost everyday some other girl working there gets scared or can't handle a customers berating that they pass it on to my wife, since she's in charge. Even then, the customer will continue to use all sorts of language that, while it's being recorded, would never be used to get the police involved. Some customers actually call on a daily basis just to threaten. They know her last name (She uses her maiden name at work) and it would be hard to find her among the 100's of possible females leaving the building. Still, it just takes one time.

My wife has put up this barrier where she doesn't feel the sting of bad people over the phone, but it's a dangerous thing she's doing. While I haven't heard of any attacks on people, I also know the company does a good job of burying stuff. My wife's 5000 dollar Rolex was stolen from her desk. It was a mistake for her to leave it there while she went to the toilet. When she got back it was gone and she wondered if she had left it at home. I looked everywhere but couldn't find it. She reported it to her bosses and since there were cameras IN the offices, they could probably find out who was there. Well, the company didn't. So, my wife reported it to the police as grand theft. The police came and middle management got on her case "Why are you bringing the police in?" Well DUH...you're not doing anything. Didn't matter, they buried it under paperwork. Someone with middle management gave some sort of speech on the entire episode and warned that if the watch wasn't returned that they 'may' have to bring in the police. The watch was returned but it was done in a manner that the thief wasn't caught. My wife decided that since she got her watch back she would tell the cops to stop looking...only to find out that the paperwork and files she submitted were missing and that there's no record of an investigation or anything. A few days passed before someone from within her company (middle management) along with a police office, came in with papers for her to sign.

This is the practice at one of the biggest companies in Japan. Similar practices by big companies like Japan Railways have resulted in deaths.

Just wondering if the world is really this insane. I've told my wife to quit. She's not going to yet...but she will.
04/06/2011 08:39:35 PM · #2
You might want to read Amelie Nothomb "Fear and Trembling"- (I think that they made also a movie).

Otherwise, how are things with you? Hope you gave up on the night chocolate fix!
04/06/2011 09:08:09 PM · #3
I don't have any first hand knowledge of Japanese business culture, but I've heard things like this before, and what you are reporting doesn't surprise me much.

Similar things do happen here in the US, to varying degrees.
04/06/2011 09:15:56 PM · #4
Originally posted by mariuca:

You might want to read Amelie Nothomb "Fear and Trembling"- (I think that they made also a movie).

Otherwise, how are things with you? Hope you gave up on the night chocolate fix!


I will check it out.

Chocolate doesn't seem to be why I was sick...but I just dealt with a major cold and for the first time ever I'm suffering from hay fever (Never have before) It sucks!!

I've personally dealt with the National Labor Board when a company I worked for here refused to give me and my co-workers 1 month notice (He decided to close the school his mother had opened) and was also refusing our last month's pay. The Labor Board has no teeth. In short, they said they would call him and tell him 'You have to pay.' but beyond that I would have to file stuff to bring it to small claims court etc etc. I asked what power they had and the answer was 'not much'.
04/06/2011 09:46:51 PM · #5
It sure seemed like a stomach flu. Hope you are better and calm facing all these problems.
There so many books on the subject you mentioned. Some, easy humorous reading, some incredibly harsh. A different culture for sure. How long since you live there? All the best.
04/07/2011 12:20:04 AM · #6
heavyj, after a long and varied career in the business world I can only suggest that there are drawbacks to every workplace. Finding the workaround for ongoing problems is usually the way to go. Your wife probably knows by now the toilet usage slack times and should be able to schedule her visits accordingly. Wearing valuable jewelry to work in any country invites theft. especially when it's left in or on a desk. While confrontational/abusive phone conversations are usually dealt with differently in the States, obviously customer reps have to grow a hard shell to survive in other places. Since your wife has made Section Chief, she has undoubtedly learned how to cope and help her staff do the same.

I expect you know that it's sometimes necessary to draw up a list of the pros and cons of employment, to make a decision as to whether to continue. Same with countries, for that matter.

It's also a good idea to vent, which is what you are doing here, among friends.

Meanwhile, jut now I had to go to the kitchen to grab a chunk of chocolate, since you obviously were not, after all, sick from an O.D. of that substance and that is why you didn't send me your stash.
:(

Good luck!
:)
04/07/2011 01:21:34 AM · #7
I was about to be outraged, until I saw it was in Japan. In the US companies can get into a lot of trouble for trying to control your bathroom habits, thats really considered off limits in 99% of compaines here.

Other than that I would encourage her to leave, NO amount of money is worth what it is doing to her nerves, blood pressure, stomach lining, etc....
04/07/2011 12:17:16 PM · #8
Remember, the customer is always right.

I used to work with a guy who went to the bathroom at work and fell asleep sitting on the toilet.
04/07/2011 12:28:33 PM · #9
I personally would NEVER put up with that sort of restrictive environment. But there are cultural differences...
04/07/2011 01:15:47 PM · #10
I keep a big pee jar under my desk. I don't have any break limits, that's just how I roll.

Years ago there was a story in the local paper about a food assembly line that didn't let employees leave the line to use the washroom, so they wore adult diapers. Right in Burlington, Ontario, Canada I think. There was heck raised over that.
04/07/2011 01:53:59 PM · #11
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Years ago there was a story in the local paper about a food assembly line that didn't let employees leave the line to use the washroom, so they wore adult diapers. Right in Burlington, Ontario, Canada I think. There was heck raised over that.

Why would anyone raise heck over the adult diapers, considering the alternative?
04/07/2011 02:28:56 PM · #12
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Years ago there was a story in the local paper about a food assembly line that didn't let employees leave the line to use the washroom, so they wore adult diapers. Right in Burlington, Ontario, Canada I think. There was heck raised over that.

Why would anyone raise heck over the adult diapers, considering the alternative?

The heck was raised because management wasn't giving them sufficient breaks, forcing them to wear diapers or lose their jobs. It sounds very degrading to me. Anyway, management was fixed very quickly when the story went public.

ETA... No offense meant to any astronauts here.

Message edited by author 2011-04-07 14:29:42.
04/07/2011 02:31:37 PM · #13
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Years ago there was a story in the local paper about a food assembly line that didn't let employees leave the line to use the washroom, so they wore adult diapers. Right in Burlington, Ontario, Canada I think. There was heck raised over that.

Why would anyone raise heck over the adult diapers, considering the alternative?

The heck was raised because management wasn't giving them sufficient breaks, forcing them to wear diapers or lose their jobs. It sounds very degrading to me. Anyway, management was fixed very quickly when the story went public.

ETA... No offense meant to any astronauts here.

Gives new meaning to the phrase: Flying by the seat of your pants.
04/07/2011 02:39:10 PM · #14
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Years ago there was a story in the local paper about a food assembly line that didn't let employees leave the line to use the washroom, so they wore adult diapers. Right in Burlington, Ontario, Canada I think. There was heck raised over that.

Why would anyone raise heck over the adult diapers, considering the alternative?

The heck was raised because management wasn't giving them sufficient breaks, forcing them to wear diapers or lose their jobs. It sounds very degrading to me. Anyway, management was fixed very quickly when the story went public.

I got that. My reply was a weak, undetectable joke. And I forgot the ;-) or :P

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

ETA... No offense meant to any astronauts here.

Good thing you threw that in there. ;-)
04/07/2011 11:41:55 PM · #15
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

I keep a big pee jar under my desk. I don't have any break limits, that's just how I roll.

Years ago there was a story in the local paper about a food assembly line that didn't let employees leave the line to use the washroom, so they wore adult diapers. Right in Burlington, Ontario, Canada I think. There was heck raised over that.


I know you're lying slippy... How? Because if you really did this, you'd know that a soda bottle (at least 1L) works much much better, since you can use it in a more horizontal position, and it has a significantly lower risk of spillage.
04/07/2011 11:47:16 PM · #16
I've come to understand Japanese culture as much closer to a hive mentality than the US culture of individualism. The workers sacrifice for the good of the hive. If you understand this, lots in Japan makes more sense. Why have things been so orderly after the earthquake and nuclear issues? Because of this mentality. Do you know the insanity that would occur if such a thing happened in the US? Oh wait, we do. Katrina.

Sometimes individualism wins the day and is the better course, sometimes hive mentality.

That's my 0.02 anyway.
04/08/2011 12:25:01 AM · #17
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I've come to understand Japanese culture as much closer to a hive mentality than the US culture of individualism. The workers sacrifice for the good of the hive. If you understand this, lots in Japan makes more sense. Why have things been so orderly after the earthquake and nuclear issues? Because of this mentality. Do you know the insanity that would occur if such a thing happened in the US? Oh wait, we do. Katrina.

Sometimes individualism wins the day and is the better course, sometimes hive mentality.

That's my 0.02 anyway.


We work as a hive, we pee as a hive. Thats what my poo-paw always used to say.
04/08/2011 11:36:54 AM · #18
wow, this would never happen in the US. Too many lawyers and liberty groups. Not to mention is a union is present.

if your wife got a demotion for a 14min pee break, she could be entitled to millions of dollars for whatever kind of harassment some lawyer could dream up.

04/08/2011 11:38:05 AM · #19
Originally posted by coryboehne:



I know you're lying slippy... How? Because if you really did this, you'd know that a soda bottle (at least 1L) works much much better, since you can use it in a more horizontal position, and it has a significantly lower risk of spillage.


not to mention the ricochet spray.
04/08/2011 11:58:22 AM · #20
Best Thread Title, EVER.

I don't have any relevant advice, but wanted to give you kuddos on the title.

-drew
04/08/2011 12:50:36 PM · #21
If I worked there, I'd just put a jug under my desk and when it was full, slap an Apple Juice label on it and present it as a gift to the asshat who had the idea of timing the pee breaks.
04/08/2011 01:14:06 PM · #22
If there's often a line at the women's restroom, and not at the men's, then you might take the approach of sex-discrimination creating an unhealthy/unsafe workplace. If they are going to count time in line against your quota then they need to put in more facilities.

As they say, "when you gotta go you gotta go" -- refraining from urinating is unhealthy, and being forced to wait more than a minute in line should be unacceptable. Maybe have her get a note from her doctor prescribing frequent short breaks ...

In the US, if someone threatens you specifically, that is they know your identity, it would be considered assault. If she knows the identity of the other party, shs could file both a criminal complaint for assault and a civil complaint for harrasment. Don't know how it works in Japan though.

If someone gets abusive on the phone, why not put them on hold and forward the call to a supervisor? Usually that's what the customer wants anyway ...
04/08/2011 01:40:02 PM · #23
on a side note, I'm glad people are mean to customer service reps (and this is my wife's profession) makes my life easier when i call up and am nice. They are usually more than happy to help me out.
04/08/2011 01:53:42 PM · #24
Originally posted by mike_311:

... when i call up and am nice. They are usually more than happy to help me out.

I have found this as well ... and if they can't help you and you ask nicely for their supervisor that person can usually help out too ...
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