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 01/19/2012 02:20:18 AM · #1
Greetings everyone! I'm new and have a question about challenge submissions.

I do not intend for this to be a thread about a particular challenge, but I will use a recent challenge as an example... the Landscape at Night challenge.

How literal are we to take the challenge descriptions when taking our photos and when voting?

The title of the challenge was "Lanscape at Night" and the instructions included the phrase "head out after the sun goes down." Can I take photos at sunset, or should the sun actually be "down" so it is considered night? How freely can I interpret "landscape" when I shoot? If I were to take the instructions literally, how would I vote for an outstanding traditional lanscape photo taken during sunset with the sun still visible... a very high score because it's a great photo, or a very low score because it technically didn't follow the challenge instructions?

A little guidance would be great! I want to make sure I submit photos relevant to the challenge, and I want to make sure I give props to great photogs when props are due. Thanks in advance!

Jim
 01/19/2012 02:32:34 AM · #2
Voting is easy, vote as you interpret it, everyone has their own thoughts on each challenge and everyone votes according to that.

Submitting could be a little trickier. If you don't care about the score you get, just submit what you think fits. If you want to score highly, submit based purely on the title on the homepage and assume most people don't read the detailed description.

For this particular challenge, "Landscape At Night" is what the votes are going to be based on. If you have a dawn / duks type photo, you risk people telling you it does not meet the challenge and voting accordingly (or just voting without telling you more likely). People will be looking for landscapes in the dead of night, no hint of sunlight around.
 01/19/2012 02:53:27 AM · #3
Threads will pop up discussing what does and does not meet the challenge. In my opinion, these discussions themselves dictate what people THINK should be submitted, and alter the course of submissions. I'm not a fan of that, really.
Some ribbon winners have been TOTAL shoehorns (meaning they do not fit the description at all), so it's certainly possible, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Vote how you want. Nobody should tell you how to vote.
Comment lots, think carefully about what makes you like or dislike the entries, and point that out. Verbalizing helps the community via comments and will hone your own abilities greatly.
 01/19/2012 03:35:21 AM · #4
its about your own interpretation to a point, but certain things are more easily defined, or if unsure i started the thread that this was posted in and the general consensus was no sun which i agree with

After sunset
Civil twilight
Nautical twilight
Astronomical twilight
Night
Moonlight
Astronomical twilight
Nautical twilight
Civil twilight
Before sunrise

i try to stick to the literal interpretations if i can otherwise may as well just have free studies all week

i was dissapointed with the amount of sunsets as the challenge said "head out after the sun goes down" thats a pretty big giveaway doesnt say while the sun goes down, but as has been said i lot of enterants and voters simply read the title not the description.
 01/19/2012 02:33:05 PM · #5
It's very much a personal interpretation of the challenge. Some people are very literal, others just use it as a jumping off point. The same applies when voting.

My belief when entering a photo is that having strong visual appeal is more important a factor than fitting the challenge topic to everyone's satisfaction. This entry of mine is a good example that fits with your example of "night".

It did receive at least one comment about it being twilight or dusk and not totally night, but it was a visually strong image, and most people could see how I felt it fit the topic. It did well, despite the few folks that felt it didn't fit the topic closely enough for them.
 01/19/2012 04:49:04 PM · #6
Originally posted by jimsparks:

How literal are we to take the challenge descriptions when taking our photos and when voting?


Literal is a bad word. I like to think of it more as a starting point from which we can interpret the challenge openly. Keep it mind though, no need to shun the description completely.

Message edited by author 2012-01-19 16:49:47.
 01/19/2012 05:33:36 PM · #7
The $64,000 question. Welcome to the conundrum that is DPC, where few people agree on anything.

Voting is highly personal. For most people, a winning image is one that really gets their juices flowing, regardless of how "literal" an interpretation it is of the challenge.

As you get braver, you may want to push the envelope, interpretationally. There is a large DPC population that is very supportive of those experimentations.
 01/20/2012 02:43:56 PM · #8
Thank you for all the replies and thoughts! VERY helpful!

My goal is to be fair, and to give my photographs the best shot of doing well in a contest. I like the concept of commenting heavily and getting into discussions about challenges and photos. In the end, I think there is more to benefit from fellowship than from high votes. I will vote with my own standards and try to give my thoughts along the way in a positive way.

As far as my "standards" go, I hope I don't become the next "DPC Jerk" because I weight the challenge instructions heavily. I don't see the point in regular challenges that attempt to be unique with a challenge title AND descrption/instructions, and letting them turn into free for all challenges where stunning photographs that stray too far from the challenge concept win the blue ribbons.

Thanks again for your comments, and I hope another new member finds them useful in the future. I'm looking forward to growing into your community!
 01/20/2012 03:58:30 PM · #9
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Threads will pop up discussing what does and does not meet the challenge. In my opinion, these discussions themselves dictate what people THINK should be submitted, and alter the course of submissions.

I'm not so sure about that one. I think only a small percentage of submissions and votes are from people who actually READ the forum thread about that challenge, and of those, not everyone is going to be immediately brain washed into changing their mind just because of it.

Originally posted by jimsparks:
I'm looking forward to growing into your community!

That's a beautiful line :-)

Welcome to DPC!
 01/20/2012 09:06:14 PM · #10
It's very simple.

1. Take a picture you like and submit it
2. Vote the images you like the highest

The debate rages on but it's really as easy as that. Scores be damned!
 01/20/2012 09:09:55 PM · #11
Just for the record. A sub 4 score and 10 comments is a win in my book. I'm here to learn and appreciate the others who are too. Virtual ribbons don't pay the bills but knowledge does. Use the site to hone your skills if you are passionate about photography.
 01/20/2012 09:15:11 PM · #12
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Vote how you want. Nobody should tell you how to vote.


And on the flip side, do not invest any meaning or feel bad about any score you get. This place is a fun place to hang out, but it's not life or death.
 01/20/2012 09:43:35 PM · #13
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by jimsparks:

How literal are we to take the challenge descriptions when taking our photos and when voting?


Literal is a bad word. I like to think of it more as a starting point from which we can interpret the challenge openly. Keep it mind though, no need to shun the description completely.


Very true.
Also because, quite unsurprisingly, the litteral interpretation will vary considerably between different people (ok, it's banal, but worth remarking).
It often pays back to spend a few extra seconds judging an image while granting it the benefit of the doubt. If they submitted it, there is a fair chance that it might have been taken with the theme in mind, even if at first might not seem so. I have lost count of all the times a concept went right over my head because I just didn't expect it to be expressed that way.
 01/20/2012 10:08:42 PM · #14
Welcome to DPC jimsparks.
01/20/2012 11:00:37 PM · #15
Originally posted by mcaldo:
...quite unsurprisingly, the litteral interpretation will vary considerably between different people (ok, it's banal, but worth remarking).


For example, even though MY people dress in black for a funeral, in Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, and Indian traditions, white is the color of mourning. There's an endless list of the ways different cultures invest different meanings in things. It pays to be open-minded.

R.
 01/20/2012 11:12:58 PM · #16
Originally posted by SEG:
It's very simple.

1. Take a picture you like and submit it
2. Vote the images you like the highest

The debate rages on but it's really as easy as that. Scores be damned!


While taking photos you like is fun, it is unfortunately not the objective of competition shooting. In my time here I've learned it's best to take pictures you feel other people will like. They are the ones voting. If you only consider yourself, you are much more likely to be disappointed with lower scores.

As much as it sucks, it is the cold, harsh truth. =/ Take some time perusing ribbon winners to get a feel for what to aim for, don't be afraid to ask people here for critiques and accept their words graciously, and go from there. Also, listen to anything gyaban has to say. He has an excellent post somewhere about how to do well here at DPC, but I can't seem to find it. Maybe someone else can link it?

That said, good luck and welcome to DPC. =)
 01/20/2012 11:35:26 PM · #17
Originally posted by melodicgrace:
...or what to aim for, don't be afraid to ask people here for critiques and accept their words graciously, and go from there. Also, listen to anything gyaban has to say. He has an excellent post somewhere about how to do well here at DPC, but I can't seem to find it. Maybe someone else can link it?


I think the gyaban link you referred to is here.
 01/20/2012 11:46:38 PM · #18
Originally posted by markwiley:


I think the gyaban link you referred to is here.


YES! Thank you! =) Everyone should read that at least twice. =)
 01/21/2012 02:28:00 AM · #19
Originally posted by melodicgrace:
While taking photos you like is fun, it is unfortunately not the objective of competition shooting. In my time here I've learned it's best to take pictures you feel other people will like. They are the ones voting. If you only consider yourself, you are much more likely to be disappointed with lower scores

I must disagree. If the only thing you are looking at is average vote, then you are right. But there is so much more to consider in deciding if an entry was a success. I can point to many mediocre scoring entries of my own that I consider totally successful because they nailed strong appeal for a smaller crowd. This is what the comments tell me. Then I have a few 6+ entries that I consider to have tanked. The collective thought they were good enough to give 6+ votes, but the entries did not inspire stopping and leaving a comment.
 01/21/2012 03:09:51 AM · #20
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by melodicgrace:
While taking photos you like is fun, it is unfortunately not the objective of competition shooting. In my time here I've learned it's best to take pictures you feel other people will like. They are the ones voting. If you only consider yourself, you are much more likely to be disappointed with lower scores

I must disagree. If the only thing you are looking at is average vote, then you are right. But there is so much more to consider in deciding if an entry was a success. I can point to many mediocre scoring entries of my own that I consider totally successful because they nailed strong appeal for a smaller crowd. This is what the comments tell me. Then I have a few 6+ entries that I consider to have tanked. The collective thought they were good enough to give 6+ votes, but the entries did not inspire stopping and leaving a comment.


I agree with Spiffy here. We can compare this liltle place to life, if we constantly try to do what others expect of us or we do what is well accepted by the majority and don't follow what we really like, it can't be considered a success. Some of my favorite photographers here very rarely score highly and usualy have quite low averages, they are still a great success in my eyes though, by comparing ourselves to what we really like and not what the majority really likes we'll have a better chance of not being disappointed.
 01/21/2012 05:11:36 AM · #21
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by mcaldo:
...quite unsurprisingly, the litteral interpretation will vary considerably between different people (ok, it's banal, but worth remarking).


For example, even though MY people dress in black for a funeral, in Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, and Indian traditions, white is the color of mourning. There's an endless list of the ways different cultures invest different meanings in things. It pays to be open-minded.

R.


That's very true, and it also goes to show how many images that we feel 'universal' in meaning might not actually be.
And sometimes there is no need to travel far for the 'litteral' interpretation to diverge considerably between individuals.

In the last 'trash' challenge, it seems that some saw it strictly as a crafting exercise as per the rules, and others as a 'found photography' one, again as per the rules.
I am sure some went voting with their very own 'litteral and therefore absolute' interpretation too, which for some people might mean giving a 1 rather than a 6+ to an image.

01/21/2012 02:39:36 PM · #22
Originally posted by melodicgrace:
While taking photos you like is fun, it is unfortunately not the objective of competition shooting. In my time here I've learned it's best to take pictures you feel other people will like. They are the ones voting. If you only consider yourself, you are much more likely to be disappointed with lower scores.

If you check on the "About" page, you'll see that the purpose of the site was/is mutual self-education, and that the competitions are only the mechanism or format used to achieve that.

Originally posted by Learn > About page:
The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week.
 01/21/2012 03:14:09 PM · #23
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by melodicgrace:
While taking photos you like is fun, it is unfortunately not the objective of competition shooting. In my time here I've learned it's best to take pictures you feel other people will like. They are the ones voting. If you only consider yourself, you are much more likely to be disappointed with lower scores.

If you check on the "About" page, you'll see that the purpose of the site was/is mutual self-education, and that the competitions are only the mechanism or format used to achieve that.

Originally posted by Learn > About page:
The original idea behind the site was for it to be a place where the two of us and a couple of our friends could teach ourselves to be better photographers by giving each other a 'challenge' for the week.


Absolutely! That's something we all seem to forget too often.
 01/25/2012 06:00:54 PM · #24
Wow! The comments continue. All very insightful. After participating in my first challenge I definitely feel more "educated." I'm sure every photog does well in some challenges and not so well in others. My first attempt out didn't go so well, but I'm going to keep at it.
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