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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Exif info seen during challenges?
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04/28/2012 08:24:55 AM · #1
Hi all

So, during the Emergency challenge my image...



got a comment by klkitchens that read... 'By-lineCLIVE-NOLAN-PHOTOGRAPHY'

Now, i assume he got that from the Exif data showing up to him and thanks to him for pointing it out. It's a new feature on the D700 i tried out that i thought would be useful for the photographs i sell and put on my blog etc but do i need to turn that off in camera for challenge entries? I haven't noticed anything in the rules but have i broken the entry rules somehow? How is it appearing to people in voting, as a watermark or is it a case of copying the image to dig into the Exif (do people really do that on images during voting?)

Message edited by author 2012-04-28 08:25:18.
04/28/2012 08:28:54 AM · #2
You're not breaking any rules, no. But if you use Photoshop, you can strip the EXIF data when you save for web; it's an option in the dialogue box. That's what most of us do.

R.
04/28/2012 08:33:08 AM · #3
Ah, right. I never save straight from Photoshop as i use Lightroom in the main but perhaps LR has a similar option. As long as i'm not breaking any rules that's ok then.
04/28/2012 09:43:16 AM · #4
Yeah, someone pointed out this bug in the site to me and AFTER I was done voting I went through to see how many I could identify the photographer/camera model and posted those to them as comments. I figured it would either 1) get everyone to strip their info and/or B) get DPC to fix the problem.

It should not be there and it should not be a big deal to have them block it the same way they do on the large size images.

That said, since the site has this bug, we should be more diligent to remove it ourselves from the final images. Hopefully it's not a violation of the MINIMAL rules as well (I think it might be.

In Photoshop if you Save for Web, there is a dropdown that lets you remove it all. Previously this was recommended only to help keep file sizes down (to stay under 300kb). However since we now know that the site has this bug, we have to do it for more obvious reasons.

With Lightroom, I have not found such an option on Export. You can limit the data, but you cannot remove it entirely on export -- you could edit the info in the photo if you wanted to before exporting, but then it's gone.

The better overall solution is to fix DPC. I've heard from others who have reported this bug that the general consensus is that it does not matter... but if that's the case, then just slap the names on the photos and do away with the anonymous voting.

04/28/2012 10:12:12 AM · #5
With Apple's Aperture, you can choose to not export the exif data....from RAW image export to TIFF or JPG.

Most of the time, I choose to leave the exif data attached to the image, especially the copyright. Including a digital copyright mark is my general operating procedure. Sure, it can be removed by a thief, but I do have the original so marked.

There are a couple things to say about voting on images with viewable Exif data. The mature and secure adult would vote fairly and objectively on a challenge image, even when they know the identity of the author. My images are highly recognizable by subject and style, even if one doesn't see the exif data. So, it matters little to me. And, I've accepted the fact I will attract some friend and foe votes because some immature and insecure voters are checking the exif data... in order to facilitate tactical votes. That's just a fact of life. I view voting in challenges as a character building experience.

I have observed the exif data practices of some SC members. If it's okay with their images, then I guess it's okay for everyone.

Final point: in a perfect world we would all be able to see all EXIF data of every image, while voting fairly and objectively, of course. Constructive criticism would be easier if we could see the camera settings. I know the number of comments I leave would increase in number due to the ability to perform some forensic analysis.

Message edited by author 2012-04-28 10:15:48.
04/28/2012 10:20:45 AM · #6
If people leaving their names in exif is not OK how is looking at other peoples challenge entries pre challenge OK?
04/28/2012 10:28:22 AM · #7


Message edited by author 2012-07-24 16:43:23.
04/28/2012 11:08:02 AM · #8
It's not a site 'bug' it's just exif data that's either there or it isn't!

Originally posted by klkitchens:

Yeah, someone pointed out this bug in the site to me and AFTER I was done voting I went through to see how many I could identify the photographer/camera model and posted those to them as comments. I figured it would either 1) get everyone to strip their info and/or B) get DPC to fix the problem.

It should not be there and it should not be a big deal to have them block it the same way they do on the large size images.

That said, since the site has this bug, we should be more diligent to remove it ourselves from the final images. Hopefully it's not a violation of the MINIMAL rules as well (I think it might be.

In Photoshop if you Save for Web, there is a dropdown that lets you remove it all. Previously this was recommended only to help keep file sizes down (to stay under 300kb). However since we now know that the site has this bug, we have to do it for more obvious reasons.

With Lightroom, I have not found such an option on Export. You can limit the data, but you cannot remove it entirely on export -- you could edit the info in the photo if you wanted to before exporting, but then it's gone.

The better overall solution is to fix DPC. I've heard from others who have reported this bug that the general consensus is that it does not matter... but if that's the case, then just slap the names on the photos and do away with the anonymous voting.
04/28/2012 11:08:24 AM · #9
Originally posted by deeby:

Originally posted by james_so:

If people leaving their names in exif is not OK how is looking at other peoples challenge entries pre challenge OK?

I think it was said that leaving your name in exif data is A-OK.


I know it is not against any rules, I was directing it at those who think it is an issue which needs to be fixed. ;)
04/28/2012 11:29:18 AM · #10


Message edited by author 2012-07-24 16:43:29.
04/28/2012 11:30:08 AM · #11
Originally posted by Chinarosepetal:

It's not a site 'bug' it's just exif data that's either there or it isn't!

Originally posted by klkitchens:

Yeah, someone pointed out this bug in the site to me and AFTER I was done voting I went through to see how many I could identify the photographer/camera model and posted those to them as comments. I figured it would either 1) get everyone to strip their info and/or B) get DPC to fix the problem.

It should not be there and it should not be a big deal to have them block it the same way they do on the large size images.

That said, since the site has this bug, we should be more diligent to remove it ourselves from the final images. Hopefully it's not a violation of the MINIMAL rules as well (I think it might be.

In Photoshop if you Save for Web, there is a dropdown that lets you remove it all. Previously this was recommended only to help keep file sizes down (to stay under 300kb). However since we now know that the site has this bug, we have to do it for more obvious reasons.

With Lightroom, I have not found such an option on Export. You can limit the data, but you cannot remove it entirely on export -- you could edit the info in the photo if you wanted to before exporting, but then it's gone.

The better overall solution is to fix DPC. I've heard from others who have reported this bug that the general consensus is that it does not matter... but if that's the case, then just slap the names on the photos and do away with the anonymous voting.


Then according to you it's a bug that it is NOT viewable in the larger image. It's inconsistent and removes anonymous voting. Thus a bug.
04/28/2012 11:40:08 AM · #12
Originally posted by klkitchens:

...

Then according to you it's a bug that it is NOT viewable in the larger image. It's inconsistent and removes anonymous voting. Thus a bug.

Really!!! This is an epiphany to you??? Achieving a challenge with purely anonymous images is a pipe dream, for several reasons. My advice is to vote fairly and objectively even when you know, or suspect, the identity of the image's author. As far as tactical and/or group voting (for friends or foes). I'm pretty sure the SC and Admin are watching for suspicious behavior.
04/28/2012 11:43:45 AM · #13
My question is... Why would you even look? I'm not sure how long it takes to check, it would seem you'd need to download the image in order to check (though I'm sure I could be wrong). It sure seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to just to see if you can figure out who an image belongs to.
04/28/2012 11:50:15 AM · #14
Originally posted by Kelli:

My question is... Why would you even look? I'm not sure how long it takes to check, it would seem you'd need to download the image in order to check (though I'm sure I could be wrong). It sure seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to just to see if you can figure out who an image belongs to.

Nah, the minute I found out it could be done, I have a script which overlays the data on top of the images. I'm now programmer by trade, so I wanted to see if it could be done and how nice I can make it look. It's instantaneous for me. You don't need to download any photos at all.

With plug-ins like EXIF viewer and whatnot, you would just have to click on the thumbnail in the thumbnail. No downloading and it takes no time to fly through the page if you wanted to.

CS

Message edited by author 2012-04-28 11:50:39.
04/28/2012 11:55:14 AM · #15
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

Originally posted by Kelli:

My question is... Why would you even look? I'm not sure how long it takes to check, it would seem you'd need to download the image in order to check (though I'm sure I could be wrong). It sure seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to just to see if you can figure out who an image belongs to.

Nah, the minute I found out it could be done, I have a script which overlays the data on top of the images. I'm now programmer by trade, so I wanted to see if it could be done and how nice I can make it look. It's instantaneous for me. You don't need to download any photos at all.

With plug-ins like EXIF viewer and whatnot, you would just have to click on the thumbnail in the thumbnail. No downloading and it takes no time to fly through the page if you wanted to.

CS

Note that if you are intentionally attempting to find out the identity of the photographer and adjusting your votes accordingly you are violating the voting rules.
04/28/2012 11:59:07 AM · #16
Originally posted by deeby:

Originally posted by james_so:

Originally posted by deeby:

Originally posted by james_so:

If people leaving their names in exif is not OK how is looking at other peoples challenge entries pre challenge OK?

I think it was said that leaving your name in exif data is A-OK.


I know it is not against any rules, I was directing it at those who think it is an issue which needs to be fixed. ;)

ah, I get it now, thanks


It's just a shame those to whom it was intended to give pause for thought haven't considered it, smacks of double standards IMHO..
04/28/2012 12:01:31 PM · #17
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by cosmicassassin:

Originally posted by Kelli:

My question is... Why would you even look? I'm not sure how long it takes to check, it would seem you'd need to download the image in order to check (though I'm sure I could be wrong). It sure seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to just to see if you can figure out who an image belongs to.

Nah, the minute I found out it could be done, I have a script which overlays the data on top of the images. I'm now programmer by trade, so I wanted to see if it could be done and how nice I can make it look. It's instantaneous for me. You don't need to download any photos at all.

With plug-ins like EXIF viewer and whatnot, you would just have to click on the thumbnail in the thumbnail. No downloading and it takes no time to fly through the page if you wanted to.

CS

Note that if you are intentionally attempting to find out the identity of the photographer and adjusting your votes accordingly you are violating the voting rules.

No where did I say I was altering my vote, just grabbing the data if it's there. I'm actually glad I figured out how to do this because I like knowing the ISO, shutter speed, aperture and focal length of most photos. That's actually how all this came out to begin with, just happens there a lot of other information to be had also.

CS
04/28/2012 12:07:46 PM · #18
Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by klkitchens:

...

Then according to you it's a bug that it is NOT viewable in the larger image. It's inconsistent and removes anonymous voting. Thus a bug.

Really!!! This is an epiphany to you??? Achieving a challenge with purely anonymous images is a pipe dream, for several reasons. My advice is to vote fairly and objectively even when you know, or suspect, the identity of the image's author. As far as tactical and/or group voting (for friends or foes). I'm pretty sure the SC and Admin are watching for suspicious behavior.


Not understanding the hostility here.

It's a flaw pure and simple. It's consciously blocked on the large image it should be so on the thumbnail.

That's it.
04/28/2012 12:13:37 PM · #19
No exif data is removed from the larger images, the overlay is intended to stop people right clicking to download the image and steal it.
04/28/2012 12:15:18 PM · #20
there is an add-on for firefox that will allow you to view the exif data of any photo online. i use it for use on another forum with critiquing but not here. i dont really care who the user is that made the image, i like to vote on the image itself.

id say its more up to the voter not checking the exif than to us worrying about not uploading the exif.

04/28/2012 12:18:56 PM · #21
Originally posted by mike_311:

there is an add-on for firefox that will allow you to view the exif data of any photo online. i use it for use on another forum with critiquing but not here. i dont really care who the user is that made the image, i like to vote on the image itself.

id say its more up to the voter not checking the exif than to us worrying about not uploading the exif.

Exactly. I don't care who took the photo, but I use the viewer all the time for the details of the camera settings. When I see a photo I like, knowing a couple of things gives insight into how to take that particular photo. I'm not a patient person by nature, and I'd be afraid of checking the details after the fact, so I want the instantaneous knowledge if it's there to be had.

CS
04/28/2012 12:29:58 PM · #22
Wow. Didn't even know people were doing this. I don't think special information to selected voters is good for dpc. I'm sure the info can be removed when the file is uploaded automatically. This feature should be added. From now on will take Bear's advice and strip the exif before I upload.
04/28/2012 12:31:25 PM · #23
misclick

Message edited by author 2012-04-28 12:31:43.
04/28/2012 12:33:53 PM · #24
Originally posted by james_so:

No exif data is removed from the larger images, the overlay is intended to stop people right clicking to download the image and steal it.


No one said it was removed. It's hidden.
04/28/2012 01:07:15 PM · #25
Originally posted by cloudsme:

I'm sure the info can be removed when the file is uploaded automatically. This feature should be added. From now on will take Bear's advice and strip the exif before I upload.

The original (entry) uploader did strip the EXIF, but the current version uses it to automatically fill in the aperture, ISO, and shutter-speed fields on uploads. If a person chooses to customize their EXIF (as I have) to show a copyright notice in the "Owner" field, it may well be illegal for the site to remove that without the photographer's explicit permission, as it would facilitate the illegal use of the photo.
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