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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Section 8's now moving into luxury gated community
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09/14/2012 01:51:14 PM · #1
Just wow.

A section 8 woman with 9 kids, just moved into a house that is pretty amazing, and in a great community. While I'm not for housing people in dog kennels, this seems pretty out of line to me - feels like she has a better position in life than I do, and I make good money, work hard, and have a degree..

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm a jerk, maybe I'm a bigot, or whatever else you may wish to label me, but I just find this to be completely out of line with the values that I consider to be "American".

Does anyone actually think this is appropriate?
09/14/2012 01:55:15 PM · #2
depends on what you consider American, if entitlement is in the definition than you are wrong.
09/14/2012 02:08:16 PM · #3
If the cost of housing that person there is the same as housing her anywhere else, or if the cost of that house fits within the guidelines, what is the outrage? That having someone on "income assistance" is depreciating the value of the neighbourhood? How? Why? Maybe I'm not understanding the issue properly as I am not familiar with land values in Florida or section 8 beyond what is in the linked article.

I think it is a separate issue if someone on assistance is not doing their part to keep up their property or care of the neighbourhood.

The "low income" housing in my city is primarily in the downtown east side. That area is actually very beautiful, and adjacent to the very expensive downtown area, and it is outrageous to me that all the housing is there because that land is otherwise unaffordable for persons like me. If this the same as what you're railing against, then I'm with you!
09/14/2012 02:19:41 PM · #4
i think Cory point is that a house is avaible in a neighborhood that people work hard to attain and the government is assisting someone who otherwise cant afford it live there.

im with him, i dont care if the government assists folks who need it, but dont depreciate what i work hard to attain in the process.
09/14/2012 02:22:02 PM · #5
I don't know the whole story, but it seems like a condemnation of the Section 8 budget size.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Florida is plagued right now with an overabundance of houses, especially foreclosures. Banks just want to get some value out of their holdings right now, and I assume they are converting some to rental properties, of which some must be under the limit for Section 8.

In a quick scan of the wikipedia article, this jumped out at me and upset me a bit: The maximum allowed voucher is $2200 a month. I personally think my $1500 rent is insane.

I'm not condemning section 8, but poverty shouldn't be too comfortable, or else people will have no reason to get out.

Message edited by author 2012-09-14 14:22:39.
09/14/2012 02:22:58 PM · #6
Originally posted by JamesDowning:



but poverty shouldn't be too comfortable, or else people will have no reason to get out.


ding ding.

Message edited by author 2012-09-14 14:23:06.
09/14/2012 02:36:20 PM · #7
I have no issue where she is housed, as long as it is cheaper than other alternatives, and some luxury gated communities are pretty cheap right now. My biggest issue is how messed up a system of welfare that encourages women to have as many children as possible and discourage having a stable father around to help raise those kids. This story is an example of a person doing exactly what the system asks of her to maximize her income, She is less to blame than our badly broken system.

Message edited by author 2012-09-14 14:40:24.
09/14/2012 02:40:25 PM · #8
I don't think anyone is blaming her specifically. As you said, the system is not right. Part of the way to make this system right is cuts. Obviously, if someone in poverty can afford that house, something is terribly wrong with that particular entitlement system (and the housing market).
09/14/2012 03:04:53 PM · #9
Of course slashing the budget is the simple solution. The fact that the problem is programmatic, that a system set up to favor war widows had led to a system that encourages, in fact requires, the demolition of low income nuclear families, and ratchets up the payments based on the number of offspring so long as there is no male head of household, yet that system completely fails to encourage people to wean themselves off the system once they are in it because almost all aid is cut off once they work like dogs to climb one step above extreme poverty.

There are better ways to repair a building than burning it down. Of course matches are cheaper than carpenters.
09/14/2012 03:33:23 PM · #10
I follow your point, and they are valid. But you have to look at it a different way too. How high would her salary have to be, to be able to afford a $2200 rent, and no longer require any section 8 aid. I'm with Cory here - I make pretty good money, but I'd be strapped to afford a $2200 rent payment.
09/14/2012 03:55:57 PM · #11
My wife was on unemployment for a year. While she still had a year to left to collect before it ran out, she just went back to work. Between tolls, gas, daycare we were much better off with her collecting unemployment.

Honestly we thought hard about whether it was worth it.

Want yo know why unemployment is so high? Nobody needs to come off it.
09/14/2012 04:43:54 PM · #12
Originally posted by mike_311:

My wife was on unemployment for a year. While she still had a year to left to collect before it ran out, she just went back to work. Between tolls, gas, daycare we were much better off with her collecting unemployment.

Honestly we thought hard about whether it was worth it.

Want yo know why unemployment is so high? Nobody needs to come off it.


But "Unemployment" isn't welfare, and it isn't an entitlement. It's an INSURANCE program you pay into out of every paycheck.
09/14/2012 04:51:17 PM · #13
The concept is similar though.
09/14/2012 05:05:06 PM · #14
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by mike_311:

My wife was on unemployment for a year. While she still had a year to left to collect before it ran out, she just went back to work. Between tolls, gas, daycare we were much better off with her collecting unemployment.

Honestly we thought hard about whether it was worth it.

Want yo know why unemployment is so high? Nobody needs to come off it.


But "Unemployment" isn't welfare, and it isn't an entitlement. It's an INSURANCE program you pay into out of every paycheck.

Have the premiums been rising at the same rate as the benefits?
09/14/2012 07:52:53 PM · #15
Has any of you 9 kids? All by your lonesome? I think, and I hope that it does, if this works for her and the kids there is no harm done. I seem to remember a parable about workers in a vinyard. Thump, thump.
09/14/2012 07:55:57 PM · #16
Originally posted by tnun:

Has any of you 9 kids? All by your lonesome? I think, and I hope that it does, if this works for her and the kids there is no harm done. I seem to remember a parable about workers in a vinyard. Thump, thump.


So you really think this is cool huh? You figure that having a bunch of kids that you aren't able to take care of should entitle you to this sort of lifestyle?

How the hell is that ok in your mind? Please explain, and don't even try to use the bible to do so.
09/14/2012 08:09:12 PM · #17
It isn't a lifestyle, it's just a house. I expect they probably won't feel good in the neighbourhood, and it will be a lousy experience for all concerned. There is scant solidarity across the classes. It makes it hard to be a decent human being. Just thought I would try.

I like the bible. Have you declared a fatwah against its use?
09/14/2012 08:10:32 PM · #18
Originally posted by Cory:

So you really think this is cool huh? You figure that having a bunch of kids that you aren't able to take care of should entitle you to this sort of lifestyle?


My family used to own a 50 unit apartment building in a marginal area. We had some good renters who we treasured, and some bad ones who we would evict. A fair number of the good ones (about 15%) were section 8 voucher recipients. One woman had 2 kids and a husband who left, she was a pretty good tenant and seemed a decent person. Then her sister got into trouble with drugs and she got stuck with her sister's 4 kids as well. She had to leave our building because you can't have that many kids in a 2 bedroom apartment by section 8 rules, and she had to quit her job, because she could not afford day care for 6 kids on her low paying job. I ran into her a few years later and while she was dealing with her situation, you could tell she was pretty much crushed by dealing with that many kids, but she had no other options. it was not what I saw as an enviable lifestyle.
09/14/2012 08:11:28 PM · #19
I don't ave to read any of the posts on here...Just reading the article was enough. No this is not right. There is no reason why a low income family should be allowed to live in a fancy house like this. If they tear the house up...guess what we pay for it...This just pisses me off...
09/14/2012 08:12:53 PM · #20
Originally posted by tnun:

It isn't a lifestyle, it's just a house. I expect they probably won't feel good in the neighbourhood, and it will be a lousy experience for all concerned. There is scant solidarity across the classes. It makes it hard to be a decent human being. Just thought I would try.

I like the bible. Have you declared a fatwah against its use?


Your intention is fine, but don't confuse intent and effect.

And this is more than "just a house" it's a location, and the services and other amenities that are available in these locations. There's usually geographical reasoning behind building beautiful homes, and a gated community is essentially an implied guarantee that your neighbors will be in the same socioeconomic class. Mixing of radically divergent SE classes in a single neighborhood seems to always lead to trouble - for both parties.

As for a fatwah against the use of the bible? Only when trying to have a logical and rational discussion.

Message edited by author 2012-09-14 20:17:59.
09/14/2012 08:19:02 PM · #21
Originally posted by tnun:

Has any of you 9 kids? All by your lonesome? I think, and I hope that it does, if this works for her and the kids there is no harm done. I seem to remember a parable about workers in a vinyard. Thump, thump.


The logical side of my head seems to say something along the lines of "if you can't afford that many kids, you shouldn't have that many kids." ... but I imagine that could come across as cold.
09/14/2012 08:21:43 PM · #22
If they mess up this section 8 house....guess what...taxpayers pay for remodel. Also sec 8 lowers home values. There wi ll be some hostilities in that neighborhood
09/14/2012 08:35:19 PM · #23
Originally posted by JamesDowning:

Originally posted by tnun:

Has any of you 9 kids? All by your lonesome? I think, and I hope that it does, if this works for her and the kids there is no harm done. I seem to remember a parable about workers in a vinyard. Thump, thump.


The logical side of my head seems to say something along the lines of "if you can't afford that many kids, you shouldn't have that many kids." ... but I imagine that could come across as cold.


Why is it that we see this sort of behavior as being deserving of our eternal forgiveness? Is it because there are kids and we have a soft spot for kids? Maybe.

In the end, I think it's reasonable to just look at these things from a biological standpoint.... What happens when an animal gives birth to more offspring than it can care for? I'm certainly not advocating infanticide, but I am curious what the solution is? It's not appropriate for anyone to have 9 kids in a world with 7 billion people, ESPECIALLY if that person cannot even afford to take care of said offspring.

Additionally, what sort of parenting do you think this woman is providing? I'm betting it's damn near impossible for a single person to be a good and responsible parent to 9 children. What does that lead to? A vicious circle my friend, a vicious circle. We may be ensuring their survival, but what's the gain, or burden, for society here?

It is cold to say it perhaps, but the reality is that this is behavior that itself should be outlawed (yes, I do like the concept of China's laws around reproduction, we're all in trouble and they're the only ones actually trying to do something about it), but not only is this behavior itself irresponsibly disgusting, additionally I think the housing situation here is completely inappropriate, and whoever signed off on this plan should be fired tomorrow for coming up with such a pea-brained idea.

And before you tell me I should walk a mile in her shoes, let me remind you that I was responsible about how I used my genitalia, and avoided a hell of a lot of temptation to do so. If a guy goes around getting 20 girls pregnant, he catches hell beyond hell for being a dirtbag daddy, and is forced to pay every dime he can to support the children or will be thrown in jail, why should the women be judged any differently what makes this double standard ok?

In my mind, bad decisions and irresponsibility lead to suffering and discomfort - and that's the way it SHOULD work, it encourages people to make good responsible decisions for themselves.
09/14/2012 08:43:01 PM · #24
Sure that house might get messed up. 9 kids. Bet maid service doesn't come with it,

OK, so not a wonderful solution, but I suspect it was pretty difficult to find a place for so large a family.

The point is is that there ARE already 9 kids.

I knew a family of 5 boys and a single father who grew up on Welfare, as it was called in the day, and were eternally grateful, one of whom spent most of his life as a caseworker.

It just seems to me that many of the remarks here are needlessly righteous. And based not on logic, but on some unforgiving sense of economic entitlement.
09/14/2012 08:52:27 PM · #25
Originally posted by tnun:


It just seems to me that many of the remarks here are needlessly righteous. And based not on logic, but on some unforgiving sense of economic entitlement.


I invite you to call me out on this with a few specific examples, if you're citing anything I've written here. This is all in good humor for me anyway, so by all means, take the initiative and give me a go here. :)
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