| Author | Thread |
|
|
11/04/2012 10:48:57 AM · #1 |
I think this site and the challenges are a very good offering to photographers of varied skill levels. Being new to the site, I was not tuned into the scale rating that seems to be built in over time--and to me, it seems to be very biased in the low direction. In most polls based on the 1 to 10 scale, anything that results in a 5 or 6 range would be considered extremely mediocre, at best. I have attended a local photo group that judges entries on a 1-5 scale. I can't recall ever seeing a score below 3, whereas winners are always in the 4-5 range, and the quality is generally on par with what see here.
The thing that is helpful in that forum and in critiques from instructors/students in various classes I have taken, is that comments typically encompass the basic pros and cons of the photo, and if something ranks as low as a 5 or 6, there are clear guidelines as to exactly what are the weaknesses that would earn such a low score, and what would be needed to raise to a range of 7-10, which most folks consider to be "good work" in the 1-10 scaling.
My two cents. Yet, as we know, scaling is as subjective as what makes one photograph more appealing than another. But as stated above, scores in the 5 or 6 range to most people would be interpreted as very mediocre to weak, at best.
|
|
|
|
11/04/2012 10:58:32 AM · #2 |
First of all, Welcome to DPC!!!
Second, you will find this to be an alternate universe where nothing makes sense. Even the scoring. But we/I love it as it is. Which is good because change around here is slooooooowwwwwww..... |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 11:00:08 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
First of all, Welcome to DPC!!!
Second, you will find this to be an alternate universe where nothing makes sense. Even the scoring. But we/I love it as it is. Which is good because change around here is slooooooowwwwwww..... |
Somehow, this posts makes sense. Perhaps the nothing is becoming something. |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 11:05:04 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by dbove:
In most polls based on the 1 to 10 scale, anything that results in a 5 or 6 range would be considered extremely mediocre, at best. |
Something that finishes in the 5's here is a shot that will have your friends and family wowing over what a great photographer you are. I have one of those shots that finished in the low 5's on DPC that I am being paid for it's use on a book cover along with 4 others of mine. None are shots that would win a challenge here.
I think what results in that is the averaging of opinions. If you look at any single individual's voting pattern, most of us consider a 6 to be a good shot. But when you average it together with all the other opinions, a 6 takes a much stronger photo to achieve. There are also a lot of other factors involved in people's voting that have little to do with the photographic quality of the image. Personal appeal, meeting the challenge topic, dislike of certain subjects, artistic effort, etc. For example I will rarely give higher than a 6 for a floral shot. I find flowers pretty but boring. On the other hand, I will give a higher vote to a flawed image with something that makes me slow down to examine it closer. On those 2 things, my votes are often out of line with the DPC collective opinion.
Message edited by author 2012-11-04 11:12:19.
|
|
|
|
11/04/2012 11:11:29 AM · #5 |
another general problem is ppl have their scores on so they score others images off what they are getting, so if you are a 5.4 then you vote youll vote lower as ppl arent really subjective.
when you look back through the history of the site scoring was a lot more generous, but ppl like christoph can still pull in the 8's etc
my voting has changed over the year i have been here to being more generous and subjective, ppl are very quick to find any negative and excuse to low vote, yet require a lot of wowing to find the great bits and vote higher |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 11:36:01 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
another general problem is ppl have their scores on so they score others images off what they are getting, so if you are a 5.4 then you vote youll vote lower as ppl arent really subjective.
when you look back through the history of the site scoring was a lot more generous, but ppl like christoph can still pull in the 8's etc
my voting has changed over the year i have been here to being more generous and subjective, ppl are very quick to find any negative and excuse to low vote, yet require a lot of wowing to find the great bits and vote higher |
Oh, I don't know about that. MY FS is currently at a 5.3 and my average score given in that challenge is 6.08 (and I voted on everything). Getting a low score doesn't happen to make me cranky ;-) |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 11:59:20 AM · #7 |
You "Registered: Jan. 31st 2012"
Have you been nearly a year looking into this ?
By the way you could have been entering challenges and had a much more interesting time.
Welcome and Hello. |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 12:04:12 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
another general problem is ppl have their scores on so they score others images off what they are getting, so if you are a 5.4 then you vote youll vote lower as ppl arent really subjective. |
...and of course there is empirical evidence to support this assertion, right?
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
... ppl are very quick to find any negative and excuse to low vote, yet require a lot of wowing to find the great bits and vote higher |
...and this comment would fall in the category of unsubstantiated generalization.
The OP alludes to the scoring mechanism in DPC and a local photo group he belongs to and seems to suggest that the voting is harsher here than with that group. Have you considered that to some the range between 5 and 6 is not as harsh as that between 3 and 4. The percentile difference alone,in my opinion, could lead people to vote a tad higher in the latter of the scoring mechanism.
Perhaps a scoring mechanism where scores meted out were in the 1/100 range would give us a better appreciation of what people really thought of the image.
Ray |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 12:18:32 PM · #9 |
interesting point and i never really thought too much about it but
out of a 1-10 scale
getting a 5.xxx is mediocre
getting a 6.xxx is great
getting a 7.xxx is fantastic
a 10 points scale works a into a only 3 point swing from being ok to fantastic
|
|
|
|
11/04/2012 12:33:12 PM · #10 |
Stay true to the subjects you want to photograph... in the style you wish to use. It's also a good idea to expand your range by trying new techniques and a variety of subjects. Your trend of improvement is more important than any single challenge score.
Most of the time, the voters get it right. This was more true when there were 200 - 300 votes per challenge. Now, with only about 100 votes per challenge, the results can be scrambled slightly.
I do have faith in the SC. They are most certainly watching for collusion.
The kindest thing you can do for your best friends or your worst foes is to cast fair and objective votes without regard to image ownership. |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 12:38:09 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
another general problem is ppl have their scores on so they score others images off what they are getting, so if you are a 5.4 then you vote youll vote lower as ppl arent really subjective. |
...and of course there is empirical evidence to support this assertion, right?
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
... ppl are very quick to find any negative and excuse to low vote, yet require a lot of wowing to find the great bits and vote higher |
...and this comment would fall in the category of unsubstantiated generalization.
The OP alludes to the scoring mechanism in DPC and a local photo group he belongs to and seems to suggest that the voting is harsher here than with that group. Have you considered that to some the range between 5 and 6 is not as harsh as that between 3 and 4. The percentile difference alone,in my opinion, could lead people to vote a tad higher in the latter of the scoring mechanism.
Perhaps a scoring mechanism where scores meted out were in the 1/100 range would give us a better appreciation of what people really thought of the image.
Ray |
i apologise for having a life and having not studied every vote ever cast for pattern matching, it was obviously an opinion expressed from my observations. pedants rule on the internet dont they
so have you got any evidence that your suggestion would work, studies, papers etc? |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 12:57:48 PM · #12 |
I'd be thrilled to get a 6!
almost broke into the 6s...
not yet.
however .... another interesting thing is that I'm looking at getting a new PW (personal worst) as well
window challenge may do that.
oh.... and welcome
|
|
|
|
11/04/2012 01:34:14 PM · #13 |
| When it really comes down to it, what difference does the scale make? Scales and voting patterns change from contest to contest but what is consistent is that you will always finish in a certain position relative to your peers. So why not use that to measure perceived quality of your work? |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 01:37:35 PM · #14 |
First, welcome to DPC it's a great site if you want it to be.
I tend to think that no matter what the scale is, 1-10, 1-5, 1-100 the images would still finish in much the same place. The First with a 5, a 6.998, or 96.089 will still be first and the rest will follow in suit.
|
|
|
|
11/04/2012 01:57:26 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
...so have you got any evidence that your suggestion would work, studies, papers etc? |
No need for extensive studies... a simple comparison of percentages between the value of a 1 out of 5 vote compare to one out of a hundred should suffice.
Ray |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 01:57:27 PM · #16 |
double post
Message edited by author 2012-11-04 13:57:53. |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 02:08:58 PM · #17 |
Great CSI sleuthing Tiny about earlier registration. Yet i assure you, my observations are only based on recent and activity on the site. Been busy taking a multitude of classes online in the past year.
|
|
|
|
11/04/2012 02:52:38 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
another general problem is ppl have their scores on so they score others images off what they are getting, so if you are a 5.4 then you vote youll vote lower as ppl arent really subjective. |
I'm pretty much with Ray on this......sounds like a crock to me. You'd have to be fairly immature and petty to score in this manner.
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
when you look back through the history of the site scoring was a lot more generous, but ppl like christoph can still pull in the 8's etc |
I'm glad the scoring is harsher than it was back in the day....
8.6????  REALLY???
I doubt that'd break a 6.0 today. (Sorry, Langdon....)
I don't want scoring like that......I want to feel like I've accomplished something every time I break a 6.0.
As to Christoph, he's an anomaly, thank goodness. If you look through most of the folks who have been here for a while and have been active participants, you'll find great work, and you'll still find they've laid some eggs due to challenge themes, an off week, or any other of a myriad of reasons why they didn't hit the mark that time.
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
my voting has changed over the year i have been here to being more generous and subjective, ppl are very quick to find any negative and excuse to low vote, yet require a lot of wowing to find the great bits and vote higher |
I don't agree, Giles. There may be some negative voters, but your description sounds almost paranoid.
I think the better part of the population is eager and enthusiastic, and votes with their own style and preferences, but as far as looking for excuses to vote low, I don't see it.
|
|
|
|
11/04/2012 03:05:11 PM · #19 |
I guess the way I think of it is that while the votes go from 1 to 10 the results (generally) go from 3 - 7/8. That more or less equates to a scale of 1 to 5/6. The other thing to remember is that if you were to score every image ever made on the planet, theoretically they would average out to 5. The site average (which may have changed?) to my knowledge is 5.5. That says to me that the typical DPC photographer is better than average and that corresponds with my perception of how people outside this site receive our images. We, as a community, do pretty good work.
At the end of the day, I have to agree though. The people that win ribbons typically deserve them no matter what the score. Except for me. I'd like to know how I tricked you guys into giving me a ribbon! ;)
|
|
|
|
11/04/2012 03:17:09 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Citadel:
The other thing to remember is that if you were to score every image ever made on the planet, theoretically they would average out to 5. |
Actually, on a 1-10 scale the mean is 5.5, for what that's worth. |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 03:24:22 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Citadel:
The other thing to remember is that if you were to score every image ever made on the planet, theoretically they would average out to 5. The site average (which may have changed?) to my knowledge is 5.5. |
No, on a 1-10 scale the average is 5.5. because there is no zero vote possible. The overall DPC average vote is almost exactly what you'd expect with a normal bell-curve distribution.
FWIW, some people have done (and posted) extensive analyses of voting patterns and mostly they show just about what you'd expect. |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 04:26:21 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Citadel:
The other thing to remember is that if you were to score every image ever made on the planet, theoretically they would average out to 5. The site average (which may have changed?) to my knowledge is 5.5. |
No, on a 1-10 scale the average is 5.5. because there is no zero vote possible. The overall DPC average vote is almost exactly what you'd expect with a normal bell-curve distribution.
FWIW, some people have done (and posted) extensive analyses of voting patterns and mostly they show just about what you'd expect. |
 DJWoodward has done a lot of work on that; check it out. |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 07:53:51 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by dbove:
In most polls based on the 1 to 10 scale, anything that results in a 5 or 6 range would be considered extremely mediocre, at best. |
Something that finishes in the 5's here is a shot that will have your friends and family wowing over what a great photographer you are. I have one of those shots that finished in the low 5's on DPC that I am being paid for it's use on a book cover along with 4 others of mine. None are shots that would win a challenge here.
I think what results in that is the averaging of opinions. If you look at any single individual's voting pattern, most of us consider a 6 to be a good shot. But when you average it together with all the other opinions, a 6 takes a much stronger photo to achieve. There are also a lot of other factors involved in people's voting that have little to do with the photographic quality of the image. Personal appeal, meeting the challenge topic, dislike of certain subjects, artistic effort, etc. For example I will rarely give higher than a 6 for a floral shot. I find flowers pretty but boring. On the other hand, I will give a higher vote to a flawed image with something that makes me slow down to examine it closer. On those 2 things, my votes are often out of line with the DPC collective opinion. |
They put that trash on a cover??!
;)
(great work man, congrats!) |
|
|
|
11/04/2012 08:28:21 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Citadel:
The other thing to remember is that if you were to score every image ever made on the planet, theoretically they would average out to 5. The site average (which may have changed?) to my knowledge is 5.5. |
No, on a 1-10 scale the average is 5.5. because there is no zero vote possible. The overall DPC average vote is almost exactly what you'd expect with a normal bell-curve distribution.
FWIW, some people have done (and posted) extensive analyses of voting patterns and mostly they show just about what you'd expect. |
DJWoodward has done a lot of work on that; check it out. |
damn. You are right! lol. Curse my awful math skills! |
|
|
|
11/05/2012 01:08:55 AM · #25 |
Dana, first, welcome to the fun. Second, don't worry about the scores. Everyone has their own scoring method, some score based on every image they have ever seen, and we are not worthy of the Masters; so they score an average of 3.5 on the entries here. Others score based on what they think are what the average photo club would submit, so they score an average of 6.7 on the entries here.
The scores don't matter really, to you or me or anyone. The only thing that matters is what you can learn from your time here, and the friends you can make here. A grade of B- looks the same at your local community college as it does at Harvard, but it is a different level of competition. You will not get many perfect scores here, but you may perfect some skills, and that is what matter in the end. |
|
