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DPChallenge Forums >> Individual Photograph Discussion >> Post Processing discussion/tutorial?
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01/09/2013 09:57:45 AM · #1
I'm looking very seriously at an eBook called Photo Nut's & Post : a Guide to Post Processing (from digital-photography-school.com)

Has anyone seen this and have an opinion? Money well spent? Or money, well.... spent...

Or an alternative you think is better?

My post-processing is horrid and this site has become more and more postP intensive over the years...

Thanks!
01/09/2013 10:13:32 AM · #2
there are different kinds of post processing. different methods, different applications, what do you want to learn?
01/09/2013 10:19:01 AM · #3
to elaborate. it can be simple or can be advanced. using a RAW converter is by application postprocessing since you are handling the adjustment rather than the camera applying setting or you can get more invloved and use Photoshop et. al. to perform selective processing on an image or you can really get dirty and do some pretty extreme stuff, e.g. blending, cloning, replacing backgrounds, extreme touch up, etc.

01/09/2013 10:23:12 AM · #4
i expanded my knowledge in two ways, online articles and a lynda.com subscription to better understand photoshop from a photographer's perspective. The books i read are generally on lighting technique, composition, and color correction. I have no information on that book you're looking up.

edit: i forgot to mention experimentation, don't be afraid to go all frenkenstein on your images to try out techniques new to you.

Message edited by author 2013-01-09 10:25:38.
01/09/2013 10:27:05 AM · #5
I started off just learning the basics. Levels, curves, saturation, contrast, sharpening, etc. Then just learned and experimented with various advanced techniques mentioned here and elsewhere, finding what worked for me. Found some useful plugins along the way, and also a few that I rarely touch.

When we did a Godzilla side challenge in '09, I finally learned how to do layers and masking effectively. That was a biggie.
01/09/2013 10:32:39 AM · #6
Originally posted by mike_311:

there are different kinds of post processing. different methods, different applications, what do you want to learn?


Basically I want to learn how to score above 6.0 ;-)
01/09/2013 10:33:36 AM · #7
My approach is to Google search a technique you want to try, find a tutorial and do it. they do another and another, eventually you have learned many techniques that will apply to other images. Eventually they just become part of your workflow and you you'll know when to call on them to fix or modify something.

01/09/2013 10:34:09 AM · #8
Originally posted by myqyl:

Originally posted by mike_311:

there are different kinds of post processing. different methods, different applications, what do you want to learn?


Basically I want to learn how to score above 6.0 ;-)


better source material is step one :)
01/09/2013 10:41:02 AM · #9
Youtube has been my single greatest resource for learning the more advanced pp stuff. That's how I learned layers, masks, gradients, and dodge/burn... Just search what editor you have and the technique...
01/09/2013 10:41:09 AM · #10
Originally posted by myqyl:

Basically I want to learn how to score above 6.0 ;-)

My approach to that was to improve the quality of what enthuses me personally. If you are just doing a shot because others may like it, then you have little incentive. I will often enter a shot simply because it appeals to me and I'm hoping for a handful of fans, then find it does well. Just as often I enter something that is a "surefire" strong shot, to have it get a "just ok" average.

Keep in mind that as you get higher in the average score range here, the contest becomes more about popular appeal than just having a good quality photo. There is plenty of great photography here that doesn't come near a 6.

01/09/2013 10:54:10 AM · #11
dont fall into the trap of PP will fix your photography. it wont. i knew photoshop way before i start taking pictures, it wasn't until i realized that great compelling lighting is the key to great photography that when my scores started to improve.
01/09/2013 11:08:58 AM · #12
Originally posted by mike_311:

dont fall into the trap of PP will fix your photography. it wont. i knew photoshop way before i start taking pictures, it wasn't until i realized that great compelling lighting is the key to great photography that when my scores started to improve.

Excellent point. It's a lot of little things all coming together and PP is only one of those things. One of the turning points for me was learning to recognize a scene with potential, and knowing when it had the good light. I've been able to put liptick on a pig now and then, when the lighting wasn't great, but I also recognize that it could have been better and easier if the light had been different.
01/09/2013 11:20:54 AM · #13
judging form your challenge entries you could use a bit of everything, better lighting, better composition and a bit of processing. lots of images arent very compelling in the way they are setup and those that are setup well dont really have great lighting (many have poor lighting) and almost all could use a bit of punch in Post. the contrast is lacking, the colors arent vibrant, etc.

you didn't explicitly ask for a critique but if you want to improve your scores I'd start there before i worried too much about advanced post processing technique. maybe a book on lighting or composition first?

Message edited by author 2013-01-09 11:21:50.
01/09/2013 11:39:15 AM · #14
As several of us have volunteered to offer advice etc you could always try contacting someone and asking for specific help: //www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=1175889

Kevin
01/09/2013 11:50:44 AM · #15
Originally posted by mike_311:

judging form your challenge entries you could use a bit of everything, better lighting, better composition and a bit of processing. lots of images arent very compelling in the way they are setup and those that are setup well dont really have great lighting (many have poor lighting) and almost all could use a bit of punch in Post. the contrast is lacking, the colors arent vibrant, etc.

you didn't explicitly ask for a critique but if you want to improve your scores I'd start there before i worried too much about advanced post processing technique. maybe a book on lighting or composition first?


I agree I have a lot to learn across the board, but I really think that 2 of my last 3 entries were hurt more than they were helped by my post process.

and

Both could have had better light, (Ave of Americas most pronouncedly) but I thought the composition was "not horrible" in either shot. But both died by my own hand in the post process step. When people suggest that I look at specific techniques I'm interested in, I'm a tad embarrassed to point out that I don't know what the techniques are :) Hard to have an interest in them at that stage ;-)

I should also adjust my expectation... When I joined this site, 6's were more common... I guess with today's voters I'm looking to get back to around 5.5 or so...
01/09/2013 11:57:02 AM · #16
Originally posted by myqyl:

I should also adjust my expectation... When I joined this site, 6's were more common... I guess with today's voters I'm looking to get back to around 5.5 or so...
Scores are arbitrary. Where you finish as a percentile is the better metric across the various challenges.
01/09/2013 12:10:22 PM · #17
Originally posted by Sirashley:

Youtube has been my single greatest resource for learning the more advanced pp stuff. That's how I learned layers, masks, gradients, and dodge/burn... Just search what editor you have and the technique...


I agree with this and it costs nowt.
Also if you want to do well here study ribbon winners.
01/09/2013 12:12:07 PM · #18
Originally posted by myqyl:



I agree I have a lot to learn across the board, but I really think that 2 of my last 3 entries were hurt more than they were helped by my post process.

and


i disagree, the composition is ok but the lighting is what fails you again, neither could have been saved with greater PP skills, the second is far too noisy nor exposed properly and would have benefited more from a tripod and low ISO (you shot at f/10, open that ens up more and lower the ISO) and probably camera set lower to the ground to give a different perspective as opposed to the way every views a hallway.. The first... why the heck did you shoot f/32???

Message edited by author 2013-01-09 12:13:04.
01/09/2013 12:12:55 PM · #19
Originally posted by myqyl:

Both could have had better light, (Ave of Americas most pronouncedly) but I thought the composition was "not horrible" in either shot. But both died by my own hand in the post process step. When people suggest that I look at specific techniques I'm interested in, I'm a tad embarrassed to point out that I don't know what the techniques are :) Hard to have an interest in them at that stage ;-)

One thing that can help, and is interesting for a lot of us, is to post your original, unedited shot in a high resolution. Then others can have a crack at it and post their resulting image and PP steps. From that point, you can inquire about specific steps they used to achieve a look. It's always interesting to see what different people do with the same shot.

Oh, and one of the edits will often contain Godzilla, but that's considered an honor around here.
01/09/2013 12:15:13 PM · #20
Just noticed you have been here 10 years,did you take a long break ??
01/09/2013 12:15:48 PM · #21
What processing program do you use? I don't do a lot of layers, mostly basic editing depending on what I'm looking for. A couple things I do on most images is correct the white balance if needed, curves white/back points, it really helps make the image pop. Contrast & saturation, usm. You don't need a ton of processing to make a good snap shot.

Good advice from Venser, just take a look at his voting average. Scores for him are most arbitrary for sure.....Lol.
01/09/2013 12:30:59 PM · #22
Originally posted by Tiny:

Just noticed you have been here 10 years,did you take a long break ??


I took a break from shooting after back surgery changed my perspective (can't sit on the ground or climb trees anymore)... I was always watching the site, but had to take a break from photography while I healed up enough to walk around again. Now I'm trying to get one shot a month into Free Study to get back into the swing. When i left, Photoshop was a dirty word here. Post Process was the rare exception and most challenges were more Basic than today's Basic edit.

[OldManVoice] Well sonny, when I was a kid, we couldn't edit out hot pixels... Just had to live with them or get a new camera...[/OldManVoice]

... and the seasons, they go 'round and 'round...
01/09/2013 12:33:59 PM · #23
Originally posted by ace flyman:

What processing program do you use? I don't do a lot of layers, mostly basic editing depending on what I'm looking for. A couple things I do on most images is correct the white balance if needed, curves white/back points, it really helps make the image pop. Contrast & saturation, usm. You don't need a ton of processing to make a good snap shot.

Good advice from Venser, just take a look at his voting average. Scores for him are most arbitrary for sure.....Lol.


I have Lightroom3 for selecting shots and a little RAW adjustments, and just got Essentials a couple of weeks ago...
01/09/2013 12:48:21 PM · #24
Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by myqyl:



I agree I have a lot to learn across the board, but I really think that 2 of my last 3 entries were hurt more than they were helped by my post process.

and


i disagree, the composition is ok but the lighting is what fails you again, neither could have been saved with greater PP skills, the second is far too noisy nor exposed properly and would have benefited more from a tripod and low ISO (you shot at f/10, open that ens up more and lower the ISO) and probably camera set lower to the ground to give a different perspective as opposed to the way every views a hallway.. The first... why the heck did you shoot f/32???


Yeah, I've come to the same conclusion on ISO and made that adjustment a couple of weeks ago. I'm on a personal mission to not shot faster than 200 till I get the nack of it... The perspective on the Way of the Cross was forced by 2 things. 1 ~ I'm a tad disabled and can't crawl on the floor like i use to, but more importantly 2 ~ any perspective other than the one i used would not have resulted in the light reflecting off the floor as a cross, which was the point of that shot (or was suppose to be the point...) I think a lot of the noise in that shot was at least aggravated by my (lack of) post process skills...

The f/32 was a result of me shooting it several times at nearly every combo of f/ & shutter speed and then picking (probably the wrong) one I liked best... I'm going to go through that shot and try re-evaluating and see if I can find a better original to play with... I shot for nearly 2 hours at every setting I could, so there's probably one that I should have selected... Another part of the learning curve for me...

I think one of my biggest issues is that i have no "job flow"... In almost every other aspect of my life I have a well defined "here's the steps I need to do", but here I'm kind of in a "hmm, wonder what I should try" mode... I'll try out youtube, and if I find a shot I like, post an original and best effort post process and ask where i screwed up... That's a great idea.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice... I'm guessing the short answer is "don't buy the book"?
01/09/2013 01:18:39 PM · #25
Have you tried looking through the Tutorials and How-To articles here (under the Learn menu)? Most of the basic PP techniques you need for DPC are covered there.

As mentioned, the most important contributors to the score will be choice of subject (and relevance to the topic) and composition.

In order to find anything to help you, you will need to figure out what you want to "fix" in PP in order to determine which (maybe of several) technique(s) will address the issue.

If you want to improve contrast and "pop" in most of your pictures, then two things you can try are applying an "S"-shaped Curve (improved contrast and detail in middle tones) and applying "high-radius unsharp mask" — for a DPC Entry-sized image try applying the UnSharp Mask filter with settings something like (Photoshop terms):
Amount: 15%
Radius: 50 pixels
Threashold: 0

I still have (and sometimes shoot with) my old Olympus D490 — do you still have yours?
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