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02/06/2013 03:36:37 AM · #1
In November I did a photo shoot for WA playgroup, there were about 1800 kiddies there.
I did it for free, but they did give me one free E advertisement~

Now I just got another invite to do another shoot in March, there will be around 6000 to 8000 kiddies this time, and she still offered me no money but this time a stand to set up my work, but not undercover (it's stinking hot in Perth in March, and also 2 free E adds.

What would you do, I do paid work now, and happy with my workload ATM, didn't really set up my business to make a whole load of money, more for the ability to use my creative juices, but this is a huge job, and it took me a long time to sort out all of the photo's from the previous shoot! I said I would do it at first, but when she said I wouldn't have an under cover tent, I was a bit put off!
02/06/2013 04:09:45 AM · #2
Say "no"
02/06/2013 04:15:36 AM · #3
Originally posted by Spork99:

Say "no"


Oh ok, thanks!!

Grin ;)
02/06/2013 04:58:24 AM · #4
Did you get any work as a result of the free E ad? If you didn't then it's a no. If you received enough work from the ad to offset your value of your shoot then I'd say yes under the condition you get a tent.
02/06/2013 04:59:53 AM · #5
Originally posted by Enlightened:

Did you get any work as a result of the free E ad? If you didn't then it's a no. If you received enough work from the ad to offset your value of your shoot then I'd say yes under the condition you get a tent.


I only got one job out of it! LOL!
02/06/2013 05:00:22 AM · #6
Originally posted by Neat:

In November I did a photo shoot for WA playgroup, there were about 1800 kiddies there.
I did it for free, but they did give me one free E advertisement~

Now I just got another invite to do another shoot in March, there will be around 6000 to 8000 kiddies this time, and she still offered me no money but this time a stand to set up my work, but not undercover (it's stinking hot in Perth in March, and also 2 free E adds.

What would you do, I do paid work now, and happy with my workload ATM, didn't really set up my business to make a whole load of money, more for the ability to use my creative juices, but this is a huge job, and it took me a long time to sort out all of the photo's from the previous shoot! I said I would do it at first, but when she said I wouldn't have an under cover tent, I was a bit put off!


I suggest a 3 price solution to this and any other should i do it stuff.

price for work you WANT to do (your passhion your actualy pay them if you had to)
price for work you feel good doing (so the mainstay, not mates rates but stuff you kinda like)
price for work you dont want to do unless the money is sick.

Using this method I once tried to price myself out of a market (not photography) but instead ended up with a 25% payrise in the middle of the recession.

Don't say no outright instead explain you would have to invoice XXX amount because to take it on would mean turning down paying clients and if that price isn't in there budget then recomend they need to find a photographer who is in there budget.
02/06/2013 08:00:25 AM · #7
it depends on the details of the shoot. just what are you shooting, how are the images used, and who benefits from the images?

are the people coming to the event paying? if so, how much?
are you documenting the event or shooting portraits?
how long are you shooting and how many images do you expect to take?
how many images do you deliver?
are you expected to post-process the delivered images?
are any images published anywhere (press releases, websites, etc)?
are any images used commercially (especially to promote this event or other events)?

equally important, are you equipped to fulfill orders if someone wants an image or a print?
do you have sufficient marketing collateral (business cards, postcards, flyers)?
can you set up a landing page on your website to promote & sell these images?

if you know how much money you would need to make for the time required of you
if you can get an idea as to how much money comes in
if you can put a value on the images that are used
if you can get an idea of the retail value of the images you take

you will then be in a position to determine whether or not it is worth it to participate.

i recently got a call from a woman who had been referred to me by one of my best clients. she was organizing an awards banquet and needed a photographer, and, as this was the first time she'd been put in charge, she was unclear on the details.

i needed to know just what they needed photos of:
* the reception?
* the event?
* the speakers?
* the people being recognized?
* a group photo?

she got back to me the next day and said all they needed was a group shot. i gave her a price and she told me when to be there. all was good.

i got there 15 minutes early, only to find that the group shot wouldn't take place for another hour and a half. to compound things, her boss, upon seeing us joined the conversation and interjected his understanding that i would also be shooting award hand-off shots.

so, at this point, i could have said, "hey, wait, this isn't what i signed up for!" "this is going to cost you extra."

but, i knew that i could turn this into a long-term relationship, that the exposure of being there with this professional group would open some doors for me, that the client that referred me really takes care of me, and that i could find some way to make this work.

so i smiled and said, "sure!"

as it turned out, the organization only wanted the group shot to send out with a press release. they were thrilled that i had the ability to handle fulfillment. i built a gallery, gave them the link, and have had more than enough sales to the award recipients to make up for the change in scope of the work.

this isn't exactly how i'd like to handle things, but, by having a handle on my business and knowing how to make the dynamics of a situation work, i was able to do the job without feeling put-upon. you can do this to, once you develop a complete understanding as to how to make money doing this type of work.

good luck!
02/06/2013 08:07:54 AM · #8
Originally posted by Skip:

it depends on the details of the shoot. just what are you shooting, how are the images used, and who benefits from the images?

are the people coming to the event paying? if so, how much? NO IT'S A FREE EVENT
are you documenting the event or shooting portraits? BOTH
how long are you shooting and how many images do you expect to take? AT LEAST 300 FOR 3HRS
how many images do you deliver? ALL OF THEM
are you expected to post-process the delivered images? NO NOT ALL, ONLY SELECT
are any images published anywhere (press releases, websites, etc)? YES
are any images used commercially (especially to promote this event or other events)? YES

equally important, are you equipped to fulfill orders if someone wants an image or a print? YES
do you have sufficient marketing collateral (business cards, postcards, flyers)?
can you set up a landing page on your website to promote & sell these images? YES

if you know how much money you would need to make for the time required of you
if you can get an idea as to how much money comes in
if you can put a value on the images that are used
if you can get an idea of the retail value of the images you take

you will then be in a position to determine whether or not it is worth it to participate.

i recently got a call from a woman who had been referred to me by one of my best clients. she was organizing an awards banquet and needed a photographer, and, as this was the first time she'd been put in charge, she was unclear on the details.

i needed to know just what they needed photos of:
* the reception?
* the event?
* the speakers?
* the people being recognized?
* a group photo?

she got back to me the next day and said all they needed was a group shot. i gave her a price and she told me when to be there. all was good.

i got there 15 minutes early, only to find that the group shot wouldn't take place for another hour and a half. to compound things, her boss, upon seeing us joined the conversation and interjected his understanding that i would also be shooting award hand-off shots.

so, at this point, i could have said, "hey, wait, this isn't what i signed up for!" "this is going to cost you extra."

but, i knew that i could turn this into a long-term relationship, that the exposure of being there with this professional group would open some doors for me, that the client that referred me really takes care of me, and that i could find some way to make this work.

so i smiled and said, "sure!"

as it turned out, the organization only wanted the group shot to send out with a press release. they were thrilled that i had the ability to handle fulfillment. i built a gallery, gave them the link, and have had more than enough sales to the award recipients to make up for the change in scope of the work.

this isn't exactly how i'd like to handle things, but, by having a handle on my business and knowing how to make the dynamics of a situation work, i was able to do the job without feeling put-upon. you can do this to, once you develop a complete understanding as to how to make money doing this type of work.

good luck!


I answered in bold, I actually in the meantime turned it down, she was ok with it, so thanks anyway for your input!
02/06/2013 08:45:34 AM · #9
Originally posted by Neat:

Originally posted by Skip:

it depends on the details of the shoot. just what are you shooting, how are the images used, and who benefits from the images?

are the people coming to the event paying? if so, how much? NO IT'S A FREE EVENT
are you documenting the event or shooting portraits? BOTH
how long are you shooting and how many images do you expect to take? AT LEAST 300 FOR 3HRS
how many images do you deliver? ALL OF THEM
are you expected to post-process the delivered images? NO NOT ALL, ONLY SELECT
are any images published anywhere (press releases, websites, etc)? YES
are any images used commercially (especially to promote this event or other events)? YES

equally important, are you equipped to fulfill orders if someone wants an image or a print? YES
do you have sufficient marketing collateral (business cards, postcards, flyers)?
can you set up a landing page on your website to promote & sell these images? YES


I answered in bold

fwiw, i would calculate my costs of being there based on the equipment i'd have to take. if i was only documenting the event, carrying a camera or two, i'd want to get at least $300 for the effort. if i was going to set up a backdrop and lights, then i'd want another $300. if i was going to do any post-production, i'd want another $200. so, depending, i'd want to make at a minimum $300-800 for the effort.

i balance that out between what i can get from the event sponsor and what i can make up in sales. in some situations, the sales potential has proven to be so lucrative that not only does the sponsor not pay, but they require a share in the sales! the key is whether or not you're in position from a business standpoint to do all the heavy lifting to make the situation work.

think about it like this:
assume you need to make $1000 for your efforts
assume you can only get $10 per sale
you only need 100 sales to make your $1000
if there are going to be 6000-8000 kiddies there, that's plenty of opportunity
only offer a low-res digital download
they pay cash up front, you give them a download code
you shoot, batch process, upload, and you're done

it is "simple as that", as long as you have the processes in place to shoot, batch process, upload, and manage download codes.

or, as an alternative, invest in a high-speed dye-sub 4x6 printer, and print on the spot. still charge $10. your overall cost will be a little higher (you'll also need a tent and electricity), but you should be able to do 200-300 sales. these printers run $1000-1500, and the prints cost $.50 - 1, but it doesn't take long to pay them off, if you do enough events.

granted, not every situation is going to work. sometimes there won't be enough people, sometimes the event dynamics are geared towards making it happen. sometimes the event organizers aren't amenable to the idea of someone else capitalizing on their event. however, if you can see the bigger picture going in and can partner up with the event organizer, this type of work can be extremely lucrative. the hardest part is making the initial investment in time and money to get things in place on your side so that you can offer this type of service.

even though you've passed on this one, hopefully the above will help you figure out how to scope out future opportunities.
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