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09/17/2014 08:33:38 PM · #1 |
We have a friend that owns a construction company they do scenic work for Universal Studios as well as other construction work. Scenic work is where they can they build anything that you see inside a finished business from restaurant/store/hotel/pool area(s). Which can include shelving units, lighting units, displays, wall murals, bar areas...basically anything that you see in/by a pool area, cabana, store or restaurant that is "built" they do it. They would like to update their webpage and have approached me to take some new photo's. What they have now is what they have taken themselves and a few that were taken by Universal personnel. They should be able to make arrangements for me to get inside before/after any of the stores open or close - so no model releases should be necessary.
1) How do I charge?
2) Should I charge by the shoot/amount/locations/hourly for the pictures?
3) Presently I do not have any flash equipment. Do you think this would be essential? If so what would you recommend for indoor shooting? (think small here)
4) Since I do not have any equipment....what do you think about renting. Have any of you ever rented lighting equipment? What would I need?
5) Would you take a laptop to tether to your camera so you can view what you are capturing?
I'm confident that I can improve what they presently have on their website. Obviously I've never done this before, I'm pretty sure I should use some kind of a flash system because it will be indoors and lighting will be very low (early am/late night). But I have NO idea what to do with that writhing can of worms. Everything that I do is natural lighting.
Any wisdom you can share would be totally appreciated...
Janine
Message edited by author 2014-09-17 21:05:45. |
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09/17/2014 09:26:34 PM · #2 |
| Sounds like a very exciting opportunity. For interior work, artificial light will allow you to control the mood of the image, direct attention to lighter areas, reduce distractions by keeping them darker, and make edges better defined with shadows that fall where you want them to go. Rather than flash, consider getting or renting LED panels used for videography. With no breathing-moving subjects, instantaneous flash of light to freeze motion becomes unnecessary. But you’ll need your tripod for the longer shutter speeds likely to be necessary. Consider using some dark foam core panels and stands/clamps/holders to shape the light. With continuous lights, you can see exactly what is happening as you move the light sources around, adjust their brightness, and see what happens all around your image. You’ll be able to concentrate on getting the effect you want without needing to learn all the tricks of dealing with flash. What you see is approximately what you get, so you can evaluate from back of camera as usual, or set up tethering for quicker more detailed view if you like. I have nothing to contribute about pricing. Best wishes. |
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09/17/2014 11:52:11 PM · #3 |
yep stay away from flash if you can, your on camera flash will not be good at all, you will need proper strobe flash set up and soft boxes....big dollars to buy, even rent would be high and if you haven't worked with them before you will struggle to get it set up properly. like Bob said use constant light, like led for video lights. these can be adjusted to warm or cool light, shoot in manual mode so you can over or under expose as you want, use a tripod and use the delay timer so you won't have any shake at all, you don't have to bother with raw if its just for the website, jpeg is good enough, always take as wide as you can so you can crop later, make sure you have cleaned you lens and mirror. not every thing has to be lit up, most things with light and shadow make interesting viewing. if you can hire some soft boxes with constant light it would make your job sooooo much easier. I would charge $ 200.00/ hour with a minimum 4 hour fee in Australia. things are a lot cheaper in the states, so I don't know what they charge. pay minute detail to things that clutter the photo, less is more. if it is not to far for you to travel charge them for 4 hours and a two hour free setup. which will let you play with the lights and take some trial shots, be confident, clients get very uneasy when they pay a photographer who keep asking them for directions. ash them what they want to showcase? which is there best work? what makes them most of the sales? big ticket items? and pay attention to them. take as many photos as you can. at least 10 of each angle, so you can choose the best ones later. the more you take the more you have to choose from. get into the zone, be one with you camera, if your eye does not like something your camera will not either. walk the area, with out your camera, just stop and look, formulate your shots, then take your beast out and start firing. most of all just have a blast. if your are tense your photos will also be tense. relaxxxxx......Gods blessings.
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09/18/2014 05:57:17 AM · #4 |
Sounds like this could be a nice opportunity. Obviously they know they could do better than what they have, and they know you take nice photos. The question is, can you take the photos they think they need?
First, forget what they already have. Get them to show you examples of what they want (typically from a competitors website).
Then you need to reverse engineer those images, figuring out what equipment (both lens and lighting) was used.
Then you need to get your hands on that equipment and get comfortable enough that you can actually show up and get the job done without a lot of on-the-job fooling around.
The reality of commercial photography is that people pay for photographers that have the skill, equipment, and experience to get the job done. Or they pay very little for those that may or may not be able to get the job done.
What you charge is NOT based on what you think you should charge for the amount time it will take you to capture the images and process them. If that were the case, you might value your time at $25 an hour, put in 6 hours total, bill them $150, and they may be ecstatic that you did what they could not do. And in doing so, you are screwing yourself, them, and everyone trying to make a living, because you have seriously undervalued the commercial work and have taught the client to expect more but pay less.
Instead, consider the value of the photos. How much do these guys charge for one of their installations? Will these images help them get more work? How long will they be able to use these images before they are out-of-date? Will they use these images only on their website, or will they be able to put them in brochures and other marketing collateral? Will these images become the primary representation of their business? My guess is that these images would be of great value to the client, and consequently they should be priced as such.
Here's an example. I'm getting ready to do a shoot for a client for some marketing collateral that will be used for 4 years for a $250,000 fund-raising campaign. I'll only have 45 minutes with the models in order to produce 12 images. I am NOT billing the client for a 45-minute shoot.
No, there is a lot more involved, simply because I only have 45 minutes. I have already had one scouting walk through. Next, I'll have a logistical shoot through with stand-in models to determine exactly what can be done in 45 minutes (there are 8 shootable spots at this location). This could actually take 2-3 hours as the lighting configurations will have to be developed for each spot. Then there will be a complete dry run, to make sure that we can pull off all the shooting in 45 minutes. And, if necessary, we'll do it again, just to make sure there are no kinks in the process. All this so that when the time comes, we will be able to absolutely execute. We have these models for 45 minutes and there will be no do-overs.
And the client knows that this is the only way they are going to be assured of getting what they want. And because of the dollar value that it represents to them, they are willing to pay for more than me just showing up on game day and catching as catch can.
That is why I suggest to you NOT to simply think of this as what you think your time is worth, but instead think about it in terms of what value it brings to your client. I cannot say charge them $200, $2000, or $20,000. But I can tell you to do as much research as you can ahead of time. Start with looking at their competition's marketing materials and determine who the big dogs are and who has the best stuff (why try to compete with 2nd place?). Next, research pricing (start by googling "photography assignment pricing" and read as many of the articles as you can).
And when you think you have a handle on things, ask the client what their budget is. If it's within reason, take it. If it's considerably less than what you think it should be, let them know that for what's involved, they need to be thinking higher, or they need to scale back what they're looking for. The most important thing is for them to realize that this isn't just a matter of you showing up with a camera and grabbing some stuff they can't do with their cell phones.
HTH, good luck!
eta: here's an article fairly similar to what you may be doing (click to read). Just don't stop with that one example, though.
Message edited by author 2014-09-18 11:14:46. |
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09/18/2014 10:37:30 AM · #5 |
Very exciting, Janine! Congrats!!
1) How do I charge? I could not add a thing to Skip's reply.
2) Should I charge by the shoot/amount/locations/hourly for the pictures? See #1. Keep in mind that if they are ONLY using this for web, fees tend to be lower. But if they're printing them on a brochure, that's an added use, and more work for you, as you need to provide them with more than one version of the images. Also, using them for one 1 vs using them for 4 is another valuable pricing factor. If just one year, they're not going to want to pay as much as for images that they want to use for much longer.
3) Presently I do not have any flash equipment. Do you think this would be essential? If so what would you recommend for indoor shooting? (think small here)
4) Since I do not have any equipment....what do you think about renting. Have any of you ever rented lighting equipment? What would I need?
A couple of things come to mind: I do a LOT of architectural/real estate photos, and 95% of the time I have to use ambient light. Is there any way you might be able to see the locations you'll be shooting beforehand? That would help you determine whether or not you need to use additional lights. I often use a tripod in darker settings, with longer shutter speeds and the results have been very good. But if you have to spotlight specific pieces within the spaces (shelves, cabinet, table), you're going to need a specialty light anyway.
If you do feel the locations are just too dark for your needs and/or you feel that you need a special light to highlight items, I suggest you hire an assistant for the shoot, someone who knows how to set up and control lights, and rent the equipment you need. You'd also have to decide whether to use one light (faster set up, but more dramatic shadows), or two (less shadows, but more set up time). Though their fee will cut into your profit, it will save you a world of frustration and prevent your shooting time from ballooning out of control as you struggle with the lights.
I concur with other's opinion that continuous is the way to go for you, in this case.
5) Would you take a laptop to tether to your camera so you can view what you are capturing? Unless you have experience setting up tethered, or are willing to practice setting up tethered, stay away from this. I had what must be the most humiliating experience trying to do just this with a MAJOR client. It was abysmal. Operator error all over the place, technical issues, etc. Either practice, practice, practice, or don't do it.
Message edited by author 2014-09-18 10:43:54. |
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09/18/2014 11:04:34 AM · #6 |
| Congratulations. How exciting. Sorry I have no valuable advice to add - but I wanted to shout out 'Congrats' and HAVE FUN! |
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09/18/2014 11:27:14 AM · #7 |
| on technique i've seen is to set the camera on a tripod and light parts of the frame as individual shots and then combine them in post. Especially is you have to use a long shutter to get the ambient and then a quick shutter to light say a person in the frame, to minimize movements. Its frown upon in DPC land but in practice combining images and expert editing are widely used with stellar results. |
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09/18/2014 11:43:36 AM · #8 |
Wow, such great responses. I'm now gathering information to ask questions of the owner/marketing director.
Continuous lighting is the best way. And your reasons to recommend it really make sense to me, being able to meter off of continuous light would be much easier than using a speedlight/flash. Because I would be placing it where I need it vs guessing where it's going. And I think that with the proper research I can get something that is reasonable and very doable, yet good for future use. I will have to practice before hand (duh) because I haven't ever used anything in the past...but this is the future, right??!!! Using a tripod and remote trigger is a given. I already do this all the time and I'm quite comfortable with that.
I've been looking at all kinds of Architectural Websites and feel confident that I can make marked improvements/suggestions for their website. I know that they are wanting to present a better professional image to the public. Though they are not a young company, they are wanting to appeal to a younger professional market (both technically and educationally). Years ago when this company was born, you didn't need to have a college degree to manage and promote it. Today you do if you wish to survive. And what they do is very visual and it's key to promote that.
I'm pretty sure they are looking for both web, brochure and poster work (in office). I also think this has great potential to be an ongoing client. Because they are continuously doing HUGE projects for Universal as well as other commercial projects in the area. Not to mention that this could blossom into a real estate business to me. I looked at a friends listing for their house in my area, I know I can do better than what they did.
Going to be doing a lot of research on lighting....anything specific you could recommend I'd appreciate. Because I don't necessarily want "cheap" but rather "sturdy, hard working and good equipment". I can't afford to have insufficient or flimsy lighting.
I think I will need 2 lights, remote trigger (cabled) and possibly 1 SB-700 Speedlight. Anything more is overkill I think? Might not even need the speedlight now? I'm not lighting huge areas. Interiors of shops, detail images of display cases, consoles. Some outdoor signage shots (natural lighting).
Thank you again...and if you think of anything else please share....I will be totally grateful. |
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09/18/2014 11:50:50 AM · #9 |
whatever you rent or buy make sure you put it through the paces before hand so you know how it works.
fwiw, alien bees are good and cost effective.
Message edited by author 2014-09-18 11:51:30. |
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09/18/2014 12:14:21 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Mike:
whatever you rent or buy make sure you put it through the paces before hand so you know how it works.
fwiw, alien bees are good and cost effective. |
I'm just now looking at these...any pointers?
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09/18/2014 12:36:38 PM · #11 |
maybe for people..
im not familiar what kinds of modifier are good for lighting interiors. |
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09/18/2014 12:39:03 PM · #12 |
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09/19/2014 09:12:21 PM · #13 |
I'm back...
I'm trying to pick out a cable release for my camera. Any recommendations. Of course it can't be simple so I'm bringing my question to ya'll. I have a IR Nikon remote that works probably 90% of the time. It doesn't work well in bright light (duh). And for this job I want a reliable cable release.
Thanks again... |
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09/20/2014 06:17:39 AM · #14 |
Your local Nikon dealer should have one, they are called"remote shutter release" sometimes. I use a "YONGNUO MC-36R" for the D800. It is wired and wireless 2.4g , works well. I shoot just hand held most times, or if on a tripod just by depressing the shutter release button. You can set a delay if you like for longer exposure times.
Message edited by author 2014-09-20 06:19:31.
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09/20/2014 10:25:49 AM · #15 |
| Thanks Deve - I know that I want a long cord my cable one. I didn't realized that a RF would work better than my IR. So I'm looking to probably get both (set). From what I've found the one that you have is only remote/wireless??? |
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09/20/2014 10:47:49 AM · #16 |
got this one - Phottix TR-90N10 Digital Timer
Now to narrow down the flash options...
In looking at the Alien Bee's they look sooooo big??? Would I do better to get a SB-700 with some less expensive shoe type flashes (slaves I think???) I've seen them in sets of 2? |
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09/20/2014 10:57:25 AM · #17 |
First, congrats on getting the job Janine!
You have got a lot of good information already but I will second the excellent suggestion Johanna gave - see if you can visit the site to take a look at what the ambient light will look like. Keep in mind the position of the sun to the building during the day and see if you can visit it during that time to see how the light illuminates the space. It might not be possible given that they still might be working those hours but something to consider.
So what lighting did you go with or are considering?
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09/20/2014 11:05:01 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Ja-9:
got this one - Phottix TR-90N10 Digital Timer
Now to narrow down the flash options...
In looking at the Alien Bee's they look sooooo big??? Would I do better to get a SB-700 with some less expensive shoe type flashes (slaves I think???) I've seen them in sets of 2? |
The Alien Bees unit itself is very light and very portable - looking at mine now I'd say they are 6 inch by 6 inch square without the reflector attached...with the reflector attached it only adds 7 inches. It is when you add the soft boxes that it can get big and bulky. I have two 800's. I would highly recommend going with nothing less than an 800 (you don't want to go into a job to discover you don't have enough light). I got one slightly used but in excellent condition and the other new and they work fabulous. Fire me a PM if you have any questions. |
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09/20/2014 11:13:09 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by CNovack:
First, congrats on getting the job Janine!
You have got a lot of good information already but I will second the excellent suggestion Johanna gave - see if you can visit the site to take a look at what the ambient light will look like. Keep in mind the position of the sun to the building during the day and see if you can visit it during that time to see how the light illuminates the space. It might not be possible given that they still might be working those hours but something to consider.
So what lighting did you go with or are considering? |
Bear in mind that I know NOTHING....nada....zip about lighting...so I'm all over the map trying to figure out what would be best.
I'm looking at the Alien Bee B800 (2) but I haven't found 2 in my price range ($500) ebay has them for around $150 but I haven't watched that to see how much they actually sell for...that's what's up right now and that's for 1 not 2.
The other option is to go with SB-700 with 2 other flash units (slaves I believe) I think I can go with 2 YONGNUO YN-560 EX Wireless Slave TTL Speedlight For Nikon but I don't know if that will give me enough continuous lighting.
I'm just soooooo out of my element in regards to lighting.
And to answer your question/statement about visiting the locations they are going to give me a list so I can go buy them and scout them out. I'm not sure yet how many 7/8 and they want 4/5 photographs per location. I need to find out for sure if they will need indoor photos or not???
Finally...I'm pretty stoked about this...I'm going to get my webpage started this weekend. I have the logo (although it needs some altering) and I got my domain name....JRE.Photography. Phew....that's quite a bit for one week...
My husband purchased the domain name this week...and I guess I'm just glad he didn't pick something like..."She Who Drags Her Feet".Photography...or possibly something else....cough |
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09/20/2014 11:44:46 AM · #20 |
the alienbees are much, much more powerful than a speedlight. the ab800 is probably 3-4x more than a single speedlight at their max setting.
bring a tripod with you to the location and do a test shoot, don't bother cleaning up the scene, you are only testing lighting using just the ambient and see where that gets you. you may only need a single speedlight or two to highlight something or add light to a dark area.
post the test shots here and get some feedback on how to improve the look, if any.
edit... check out squarespace for your website, i used it to build mine.
Message edited by author 2014-09-20 11:45:58. |
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09/20/2014 11:52:42 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by Mike:
the alienbees are much, much more powerful than a speedlight. the ab800 is probably 3-4x more than a single speedlight at their max setting.
bring a tripod with you to the location and do a test shoot, don't bother cleaning up the scene, you are only testing lighting using just the ambient and see where that gets you. you may only need a single speedlight or two to highlight something or add light to a dark area.
post the test shots here and get some feedback on how to improve the look, if any.
edit... check out squarespace for your website, i used it to build mine. |
great suggestion...I was just going to "drive by" but I'll definitely do that.
As to the speedlight...from what I'm seeing on YouTube...I'm thinking that is exactly what I'm going to do...use the ambient light to do the base shot then add any "spot lighting" where I need it using an extension pole (can't think what it's called...ish) or just walking around the room lighting the various areas then layering & masking in Ps...Now that I know how to do...lol
Most certainly a tripod!!!! And I just got my 12-24 Tokina lens this week!!! Thank you Ann!!! |
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09/20/2014 11:57:28 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by Mike:
the alienbees are much, much more powerful than a speedlight. the ab800 is probably 3-4x more than a single speedlight at their max setting.
bring a tripod with you to the location and do a test shoot, don't bother cleaning up the scene, you are only testing lighting using just the ambient and see where that gets you. you may only need a single speedlight or two to highlight something or add light to a dark area.
post the test shots here and get some feedback on how to improve the look, if any.
edit... check out squarespace for your website, i used it to build mine. |
OH shit!!! You think I don't know anything about flash...I know less about "building" a website...I'm probably going with Smugmug/Wix there was one other that I was looking at...WITH templates!!! |
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09/20/2014 01:59:45 PM · #23 |
| Good luck Janine! I'm sure you'll do great! When you get your pics up REALLY BIG all over the entrance to the Studios I'd love to come see it!!! |
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09/20/2014 02:18:44 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
Good luck Janine! I'm sure you'll do great! When you get your pics up REALLY BIG all over the entrance to the Studios I'd love to come see it!!! |
You'll have to have the ability to "see through my husband" because he'll be at the head of that line!!! lol |
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09/20/2014 04:57:24 PM · #25 |
My husband purchased the domain name this week...and I guess I'm just glad he didn't pick something like..."She Who Drags Her Feet".Photography...or possibly something else....cough [/quote]
Bwhahahaha.....love it.
I use a manfroto mono pod as an extension pole for hand held lighting, I haven't seen the location, you might very well have enough lighting onsite.
Re your website, try godaddy.com they have a website builder package which is very good. We use them and have found them to be excellent. Check our website it is one of godaddy's.
Message edited by author 2014-09-20 17:03:59.
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