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05/28/2015 07:11:30 PM · #1 |
| Is it standard for site council to request proof for images that placed 6th -10th? |
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05/28/2015 07:37:37 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by pearlseyes:
Is it standard for site council to request proof for images that placed 6th -10th? |
It happened to me with an image that was at the bottom of the pack and several weeks (or more) later (got a DQ too because I had already deleted the original). So yes, I believe they can request anything at anytime. |
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05/28/2015 07:51:49 PM · #3 |
I think Top Five are "standard". But, I agree... anything can be challenged at any time. Save your originals.
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05/28/2015 08:01:00 PM · #4 |
| I got a request yesterday for validation on my 6th place green entry. I don't think that has happened to me before. |
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05/29/2015 01:13:41 AM · #5 |
| Same here grahamgatoR. I've never had this happen before so I thought it might be a new rule. |
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05/29/2015 05:43:56 AM · #6 |
I can see them requesting additional proofs if they feel there might be one or more DQs among the top 5. This way they can recalculate results without having to give the next person time to submit.
While I certainly love the top draw in the filmic challenge I am going to be rather perplexed and perturbed if the wet plate look used is allowed to stand if it was added in post and not during capture. There was no exception to the rules for textures in the challenge, only light leaks, and the SC has always urged caution when using textures so that they do not become an integral part of the image, which I cannot help but believe they do in this case. It's going to be interesting. |
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05/29/2015 08:05:41 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
I can see them requesting additional proofs if they feel there might be one or more DQs among the top 5. This way they can recalculate results without having to give the next person time to submit.
While I certainly love the top draw in the filmic challenge I am going to be rather perplexed and perturbed if the wet plate look used is allowed to stand if it was added in post and not during capture. There was no exception to the rules for textures in the challenge, only light leaks, and the SC has always urged caution when using textures so that they do not become an integral part of the image, which I cannot help but believe they do in this case. It's going to be interesting. |
I think it will stand. It's obviously a texture, and that seems to be the key. And while it's not heavily over the subject, it is still over the subject, which also seems to be another key -- applying the subject to the whole photo. I'd be surprised if it was DQd |
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05/29/2015 08:33:28 AM · #8 |
I have received requests quite a few times and I was last place.. a good example was my pac man on the ghost entry..
I have also had the requests when I was in the middle.. doesn't matter they will also do requests if a photo was reported.
I always throw my original in the drop box now just in case and then delete it once the challenge is over.
Message edited by author 2015-05-29 08:35:27. |
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05/29/2015 08:40:09 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
. . . And while it's not heavily over the subject, it is still over the subject, which also seems to be another key -- applying the subject to the whole photo. I'd be surprised if it was DQd |
My understanding was that it was to be applied equally over the entire image - which is a major reason I have not embraced the texture option. I rarely like a texture over everything in an image. |
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05/29/2015 08:56:14 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by jgirl57:
I have received requests quite a few times and I was last place.. a good example was my pac man on the ghost entry..
I have also had the requests when I was in the middle.. doesn't matter they will also do requests if a photo was reported.
I always throw my original in the drop box now just in case and then delete it once the challenge is over. |
You. Delete. Photos?????? |
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05/29/2015 08:59:13 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
I can see them requesting additional proofs if they feel there might be one or more DQs among the top 5. This way they can recalculate results without having to give the next person time to submit.
While I certainly love the top draw in the filmic challenge I am going to be rather perplexed and perturbed if the wet plate look used is allowed to stand if it was added in post and not during capture. There was no exception to the rules for textures in the challenge, only light leaks, and the SC has always urged caution when using textures so that they do not become an integral part of the image, which I cannot help but believe they do in this case. It's going to be interesting. |
I think it will stand. It's obviously a texture, and that seems to be the key. And while it's not heavily over the subject, it is still over the subject, which also seems to be another key -- applying the subject to the whole photo. I'd be surprised if it was DQd |
And this is where I'm very curious about this image. I was planning something along these lines but was concerned (particularly with a potential DQ right before the DPL) about the just where the line of demarcation is between a texture being used uniformly over the entire image (which IMO would preclude any level of masking over the subject) and it being used to circumvent other rules, such as creating other features in the image. As with a lot of things I've been hoping for an explicit criteria from the SC, but as always we've been given guidelines and told to proceed with caution. In this particular case I would want to see them ask for a copy of the texture used as well to see if masking was done post application or to the texture itself, which I expect would be legal (i.e. an non-uniform texture created specifically for the underlying image was applied uniformly).
And to be clear, this isn't sour grapes. I just like to know what is and isn't allowed, and I stated in my comment when voting that I would be interested to see where this image fell with the SC.
Message edited by author 2015-05-29 09:01:20. |
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05/29/2015 09:09:00 AM · #12 |
I want to know that as well, because the filter I used for my filmic, included an extremely heavy vignette which I hated, but I didn't want to mask that because I would have used the other textures for the image, just not that vignetting part..
Kevin, LOL I do delete almost all my images
Message edited by author 2015-05-29 09:14:15. |
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05/29/2015 09:15:33 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
I can see them requesting additional proofs if they feel there might be one or more DQs among the top 5. This way they can recalculate results without having to give the next person time to submit.
While I certainly love the top draw in the filmic challenge I am going to be rather perplexed and perturbed if the wet plate look used is allowed to stand if it was added in post and not during capture. There was no exception to the rules for textures in the challenge, only light leaks, and the SC has always urged caution when using textures so that they do not become an integral part of the image, which I cannot help but believe they do in this case. It's going to be interesting. |
I think it will stand. It's obviously a texture, and that seems to be the key. And while it's not heavily over the subject, it is still over the subject, which also seems to be another key -- applying the subject to the whole photo. I'd be surprised if it was DQd |
And this is where I'm very curious about this image. I was planning something along these lines but was concerned (particularly with a potential DQ right before the DPL) about the just where the line of demarcation is between a texture being used uniformly over the entire image (which IMO would preclude any level of masking over the subject) and it being used to circumvent other rules, such as creating other features in the image. As with a lot of things I've been hoping for an explicit criteria from the SC, but as always we've been given guidelines and told to proceed with caution. In this particular case I would want to see them ask for a copy of the texture used as well to see if masking was done post application or to the texture itself, which I expect would be legal (i.e. an non-uniform texture created specifically for the underlying image was applied uniformly).
And to be clear, this isn't sour grapes. I just like to know what is and isn't allowed, and I stated in my comment when voting that I would be interested to see where this image fell with the SC. |
I'm with you. I like textures, but allowing them in every advanced challenge was really opening a can of worms. There are no hard rules, which I suppose is the right course for a photography site, but there have been many cases now where I think the photo has crossed the line but the SC hasn't. Subjectivity is perfectly understandable; guessing games are frustrating.
And rather selfishly and immaturely, perhaps, it's taken a bit of joy from me when I do manage to capture a pretty cool effect in-camera, knowing it'll only be perceived as an added texture. |
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05/29/2015 09:20:46 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by TEXTURE RULE::
You May: use images that do not meet the source or date requirements as textures in your entry if they function specifically as textures and not to circumvent other rules. |
There's no requirement in there that the texture "be applied evenly over the entire image". Why? Because not all applied textures ARE even; in fact, many of them are not. It's still a good guideline to follow, because it's safe, but it's not a requirement.
As a case in point, one of the ribbons in the recent Abandoned Buildings challenge was DQ'd because a "cloud" texture was applied ONLY to the sky, which otherwise would have been bare-naked. Had that cloud texture overlaid the buildings as well, the image probably would have been validated, but as submitted it amounted to a composite, or double-exposure, image, with clouds pasted into an empty sky. Had the imported texture NOT been clouds, but scratches say, something distinctly non-skylike, that would have been OK.
We're aware that there have been statements in the past about judging texture based on whether it's over the entire image, but that's not in the rules right now so we can't use it as a DQable point. Nor, in my own opinion, should we want to, because one of the main points of allowing texture would be to texturize otherwise plain backgrounds. |
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05/29/2015 09:31:02 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
. . .
There's no requirement in there that the texture "be applied evenly over the entire image". Why? Because not all applied textures ARE even; in fact, many of them are not. It's still a good guideline to follow, because it's safe, but it's not a requirement.. . . |
This is a very good point and one I had not considered explicitly though it had flitted through my mind. |
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05/29/2015 09:37:06 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by nam:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
. . .
There's no requirement in there that the texture "be applied evenly over the entire image". Why? Because not all applied textures ARE even; in fact, many of them are not. It's still a good guideline to follow, because it's safe, but it's not a requirement.. . . |
This is a very good point and one I had not considered explicitly though it had flitted through my mind. |
But I do have confusion over how much you can manipulate a texture. Textures are not uniform, certainly, but you can basically tweak a texture into anything you want and then apply it, so you have 100% control of where it appears and where it doesn't. It's hard to know where the line is. |
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05/29/2015 09:41:26 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by TEXTURE RULE::
You May: use images that do not meet the source or date requirements as textures in your entry if they function specifically as textures and not to circumvent other rules. |
There's no requirement in there that the texture "be applied evenly over the entire image". Why? Because not all applied textures ARE even; in fact, many of them are not. It's still a good guideline to follow, because it's safe, but it's not a requirement.
As a case in point, one of the ribbons in the recent Abandoned Buildings challenge was DQ'd because a "cloud" texture was applied ONLY to the sky, which otherwise would have been bare-naked. Had that cloud texture overlaid the buildings as well, the image probably would have been validated, but as submitted it amounted to a composite, or double-exposure, image, with clouds pasted into an empty sky. Had the imported texture NOT been clouds, but scratches say, something distinctly non-skylike, that would have been OK.
We're aware that there have been statements in the past about judging texture based on whether it's over the entire image, but that's not in the rules right now so we can't use it as a DQable point. Nor, in my own opinion, should we want to, because one of the main points of allowing texture would be to texturize otherwise plain backgrounds. |
BASIC EDITING FOR ALL! :) |
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05/29/2015 09:59:42 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by bohemka:
Originally posted by nam:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
. . .
There's no requirement in there that the texture "be applied evenly over the entire image". Why? Because not all applied textures ARE even; in fact, many of them are not. It's still a good guideline to follow, because it's safe, but it's not a requirement.. . . |
This is a very good point and one I had not considered explicitly though it had flitted through my mind. |
But I do have confusion over how much you can manipulate a texture. Textures are not uniform, certainly, but you can basically tweak a texture into anything you want and then apply it, so you have 100% control of where it appears and where it doesn't. It's hard to know where the line is. |
Or you can edit it for your specific purposes. Want to put a cloud texture only over the sky? Edit the texture so that's all that's there in that area. We now get to play "When is a texture not a texture?" |
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05/29/2015 10:04:19 AM · #19 |
| i think its pretty obvious when its not a texture, despite how one edits it. |
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05/29/2015 10:09:36 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
Or you can edit it for your specific purposes. Want to put a cloud texture only over the sky? Edit the texture so that's all that's there in that area. We now get to play "When is a texture not a texture?" |
You may have missed my earlier post:
Originally posted by bear_music:
As a case in point, one of the ribbons in the recent Abandoned Buildings challenge was DQ'd because a "cloud" texture was applied ONLY to the sky, which otherwise would have been bare-naked. Had that cloud texture overlaid the buildings as well, the image probably would have been validated, but as submitted it amounted to a composite, or double-exposure, image, with clouds pasted into an empty sky. Had the imported texture NOT been clouds, but scratches say, something distinctly non-skylike, that would have been OK. |
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05/29/2015 10:13:30 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
Or you can edit it for your specific purposes. Want to put a cloud texture only over the sky? Edit the texture so that's all that's there in that area. We now get to play "When is a texture not a texture?" |
You may have missed my earlier post:
Originally posted by bear_music:
As a case in point, one of the ribbons in the recent Abandoned Buildings challenge was DQ'd because a "cloud" texture was applied ONLY to the sky, which otherwise would have been bare-naked. Had that cloud texture overlaid the buildings as well, the image probably would have been validated, but as submitted it amounted to a composite, or double-exposure, image, with clouds pasted into an empty sky. Had the imported texture NOT been clouds, but scratches say, something distinctly non-skylike, that would have been OK. |
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I don't think he did.
I think he's saying the "texture image" would be a cloudy top and empty bottom. That image would be evenly applied to the whole image with the blank spots falling where they wanted.
The word "texture" here is being used in two ways: The image containing the "texture" and the actual "textures" on the texture image. I think you mean the actual revealed texture from the image. |
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05/29/2015 10:20:55 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by klkitchens:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
Or you can edit it for your specific purposes. Want to put a cloud texture only over the sky? Edit the texture so that's all that's there in that area. We now get to play "When is a texture not a texture?" |
You may have missed my earlier post:
Originally posted by bear_music:
As a case in point, one of the ribbons in the recent Abandoned Buildings challenge was DQ'd because a "cloud" texture was applied ONLY to the sky, which otherwise would have been bare-naked. Had that cloud texture overlaid the buildings as well, the image probably would have been validated, but as submitted it amounted to a composite, or double-exposure, image, with clouds pasted into an empty sky. Had the imported texture NOT been clouds, but scratches say, something distinctly non-skylike, that would have been OK. |
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I don't think he did.
I think he's saying the "texture image" would be a cloudy top and empty bottom. That image would be evenly applied to the whole image with the blank spots falling where they wanted.
The word "texture" here is being used in two ways: The image containing the "texture" and the actual "textures" on the texture image. I think you mean the actual revealed texture from the image. |
Right. That's exactly my point as well. You can't on one hand say textures aren't uniform so they will appear some places and not others, and then say, hold on now, it can't be in that spot.
For the cloud DQ, if it's painted in masked out, sure it's a DQ. But if the texture is the same ratio as the photo and half is clouds and half isn't, and it's applied evenly at the same opacity, I don't see how that's a DQ. And this is where the textures thing is really a can of worms. |
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05/29/2015 10:24:17 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by klkitchens:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
Or you can edit it for your specific purposes. Want to put a cloud texture only over the sky? Edit the texture so that's all that's there in that area. We now get to play "When is a texture not a texture?" |
You may have missed my earlier post:
Originally posted by bear_music:
As a case in point, one of the ribbons in the recent Abandoned Buildings challenge was DQ'd because a "cloud" texture was applied ONLY to the sky, which otherwise would have been bare-naked. Had that cloud texture overlaid the buildings as well, the image probably would have been validated, but as submitted it amounted to a composite, or double-exposure, image, with clouds pasted into an empty sky. Had the imported texture NOT been clouds, but scratches say, something distinctly non-skylike, that would have been OK. |
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I don't think he did.
I think he's saying the "texture image" would be a cloudy top and empty bottom. That image would be evenly applied to the whole image with the blank spots falling where they wanted.
The word "texture" here is being used in two ways: The image containing the "texture" and the actual "textures" on the texture image. I think you mean the actual revealed texture from the image. |
This ^^^^
If I can show you my texture image was applied evenly that works based on your criteria. If I have a texture that screws with part of it...
...there's nothing to keep me from altering the texture as it's still a "texture", which can be uneven by nature as you said...
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05/29/2015 10:27:44 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by klkitchens:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
Or you can edit it for your specific purposes. Want to put a cloud texture only over the sky? Edit the texture so that's all that's there in that area. We now get to play "When is a texture not a texture?" |
You may have missed my earlier post:
Originally posted by bear_music:
As a case in point, one of the ribbons in the recent Abandoned Buildings challenge was DQ'd because a "cloud" texture was applied ONLY to the sky, which otherwise would have been bare-naked. Had that cloud texture overlaid the buildings as well, the image probably would have been validated, but as submitted it amounted to a composite, or double-exposure, image, with clouds pasted into an empty sky. Had the imported texture NOT been clouds, but scratches say, something distinctly non-skylike, that would have been OK. |
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I don't think he did.
I think he's saying the "texture image" would be a cloudy top and empty bottom. That image would be evenly applied to the whole image with the blank spots falling where they wanted.
The word "texture" here is being used in two ways: The image containing the "texture" and the actual "textures" on the texture image. I think you mean the actual revealed texture from the image. |
No, it doesn't matter: if the RESULT is to add clouds to a blank sky so they look like they were actually there in the beginning, you're looking at a violation based on "You May: use images that do not meet the source or date requirements as textures in your entry if they function specifically as textures and not to circumvent other rules." In this case, the rule circumvented would be the single source image rule. In general, it's pretty obvious when a texture is a texture and when it's acting as something else.
Another area where people are running a bit off-track is talking about "when does a texture become a "feature"?" THAT's not in the rule-as-written either. There's no part of the rule that says a texture can't be really aggressive right now. So especially in this filmic challenge we're seeing some really prominent texturing, like in Judi's ble-ribbon shot, and at least as *I* read the rule, that's fine. If there's ever a consensus that images like that ought not be acceptable, we'd have to modify the rule. And I'm not sure why we'd want to; it's not like this sort of stuff generally does real well, but of course in "Filmic" it was expected.
Incidentally, it's interesting to note that after all the hoo-hah over the flagged "light leak" modification in this challenge, you have to drop down to 18th place to see a light leak image :-) |
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05/29/2015 10:29:50 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
If I can show you my texture image was applied evenly that works based on your criteria. If I have a texture that screws with part of it...
...there's nothing to keep me from altering the texture as it's still a "texture", which can be uneven by nature as you said...
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In any case, those don't LOOK like real clouds, they are clearly textures. Not a problem. |
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