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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Got a sec to look over my portrait photo wishlist?
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11/04/2015 08:00:54 AM · #1
Hi,
I'm thinking of getting more lighting so that I can start practicing portrait photography (just on a hobby basis). Luckily my birthday and x-mas is comming up! :) Could someone confirm whether I have managed to find what I need, or let me know if I am missing or do not need any of the below items. I have googled too much and now I am overwhelmed and confused. I already own a Canon speedlight 430EX II, but would like to get a second flash and a could of other things. I was thinking that both flashguns would be on stands (one with a soft box). Here is the list of things I thought I might "need":

1 x Yongnuo YN-560 IV Flashgun + Yongnuo YN560-TX Wireless Flash Controller as the second flash and flash controller to trigger the Canon 430EX II

1 x Yongnou Single YN622C-II-RX to be mounted on the Canon 430EX II

2 x Light stands

1 x Neewer 60 x 60 Softbox with S-type Speedlite Flash Bracket Mount for one of the flashes. Is 60 x 60 overkill for portraits or should I perhaps even get the 80 x 80?

1 x Flash Bracket for the other flash

1 x Wireless trigger since my hubby does not want to be my ginny-pig :)

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! Cheers :)

Message edited by author 2015-11-04 08:01:30.
11/04/2015 08:43:49 AM · #2
I recently bought 2 x yn622n and yn622 controller to use with my 2 old nissin di866 flash guns and while this worked extremely well I was disappointed the nissins couldn't do high speed sync (hss). So I purchased the yn568ex ii flash and another yn622n and now enjoy hss.

I realise hss is not important to everyone but if it is, your wasting your money on the 560 flash. If your not aware of hss it lets you sync your flash at speeds higher than you can natively (usually 1/250) up to 1/8000. Where this comes in handy is if you want to shoot a shallow DoF portrait in bright sunlight for example.
11/04/2015 09:36:40 AM · #3
Are you trying to be portable or stationary?

IF the former, these seem like good choices.

But if most of your portrait is stationary, I would suggest you look at mono lights instead of speed lights.
I bought the Elinchrom EL20842.2 D-Lite RX 4/4 With Stands about 10 months ago (there is a newer version out now). Since then, I have only used my speedlights for on camera shoots where I was bouncing light off the walls. All other times I wanted light I used these. They are so much more pleasing to use than speedlights in a controlled setting.
11/04/2015 10:34:28 AM · #4
A lot of people getting into studio lighting are drawn by the portability and relative cheapness of flashes. And as Mike said, for portability, they can't be beat.

However, if you are planning to shoot outside at all, you should know that their lightness can be a liability, especially when adding modifiers. Even the slightest breeze can knock them over. In addition, flash is not as powerful as strobe heads, so you will have to work very hard if you plan to shoot into the sun.
11/04/2015 11:02:40 AM · #5
Originally posted by MichaelC:

I recently bought 2 x yn622n and yn622 controller to use with my 2 old nissin di866 flash guns and while this worked extremely well I was disappointed the nissins couldn't do high speed sync (hss). So I purchased the yn568ex ii flash and another yn622n and now enjoy hss.

I realise hss is not important to everyone but if it is, your wasting your money on the 560 flash. If your not aware of hss it lets you sync your flash at speeds higher than you can natively (usually 1/250) up to 1/8000. Where this comes in handy is if you want to shoot a shallow DoF portrait in bright sunlight for example.


Thanks for pointing out the HSS issue MichaelC, I was not aware of this. The yn568ex ii looks like a better option than the 560.

Am I correct in that I need 2 x yn622c transceivers, not 1 as I wrote in the previous post. One for the yn568ex ii flash and one for the Canon 430ex ii flash.

And I would benefit from a YN622-TX controller to easily control the power of the two flashes. Alternatively, I would have to get a third transceiver and make changes via the camera menu - is this correct?

Also, he two flashes may be set to different power using the TX-controller, right? Sorry, if these are stupid questions!
11/04/2015 11:09:29 AM · #6
If you really want to get back to basics, like the true masters, there is always this.
11/04/2015 11:17:22 AM · #7
Originally posted by giantmike:

Are you trying to be portable or stationary?

IF the former, these seem like good choices.

But if most of your portrait is stationary, I would suggest you look at mono lights instead of speed lights.
I bought the Elinchrom EL20842.2 D-Lite RX 4/4 With Stands about 10 months ago (there is a newer version out now). Since then, I have only used my speedlights for on camera shoots where I was bouncing light off the walls. All other times I wanted light I used these. They are so much more pleasing to use than speedlights in a controlled setting.


Originally posted by tanguera:

A lot of people getting into studio lighting are drawn by the portability and relative cheapness of flashes. And as Mike said, for portability, they can't be beat.

However, if you are planning to shoot outside at all, you should know that their lightness can be a liability, especially when adding modifiers. Even the slightest breeze can knock them over. In addition, flash is not as powerful as strobe heads, so you will have to work very hard if you plan to shoot into the sun.


Yea, at this stage I am definitely drawn to the portability and relative cheapness of speedlite. I will most likely limit the forthcoming practice to indoors. When, or perhaps if (haha), I master it I will invest in a good and sturdy monolight, and perhaps try my luck outdoors. Thank you both giantmike and tanguera. I will keep your input in mind when the time comes :)
11/04/2015 11:22:38 AM · #8
Originally posted by smardaz:

If you really want to get back to basics, like the true masters, there is always this.


Hahaha... You go first! Let me know how it goes!
11/04/2015 11:38:58 AM · #9
Originally posted by ArnaMarie:

I'm thinking of getting more lighting so that I can start practicing portrait photography (just on a hobby basis). Luckily my birthday and x-mas is comming up! :)

Your situation may be different, but IMNSHO, I would work with windows and sunlight. Get the hang of how you want the light to fall on your subject, and how different scenarios, such as a long sun at the beginning or end of day, or the stark brightness thru a tall window on an overcast day.

Outside

Window frame in a farm outbuilding

Same window

Golden light, again thru a window

Porch light full of dirt & dead bugs

*one* ray of sunlight thru *one* pane of glass.....

Granted, a *total* luckshot, right place, right time thing, but you can't replicate this with any lights, either.

If you're doing this mostly for hobby/practice, then why spend the money until you *know* where and how much light you want.

I'm not saying NOT to buy all kinds of stuff if you want, but IMNSHO, learn how and what you want to shoot first, then gear up for that.

I hate spending money on equipment that I regret later.

One caveat......I *hate* flash & artificial lighting.

But mostly because I don't know how to use it, and as you can see, I've had some decent results with available light.

And it's cheap! LOL!!!


11/04/2015 06:38:58 PM · #10
Originally posted by ArnaMarie:


.......
Am I correct in that I need 2 x yn622c transceivers, not 1 as I wrote in the previous post. One for the yn568ex ii flash and one for the Canon 430ex ii flash.

And I would benefit from a YN622-TX controller to easily control the power of the two flashes. Alternatively, I would have to get a third transceiver and make changes via the camera menu - is this correct?

Also, he two flashes may be set to different power using the TX-controller, right? Sorry, if these are stupid questions!


It really depends on budget and the style of photography you do. If misfires are not that critical you could set up 1 flash with a transceiver and place all others in slave mode. But at less than $40US per transceiver on ebay it was a no brainer and I didn't have to be concerned about where the sensors are. Additionally I can now place flashes in groups and have them at different settings or even different modes, eg: I can have:
Group A in TTL -1 EV with manual zoom
Group B in M 1/64 with auto zoom

And of course I can control/change all settings from the camera mounted controller, not having to go near the flashes. I haven't done it yet but you are even supposed to be able to use these as a remote camera trigger.

As far as setup goes you only need to place your camera in Auto FP mode and the flashes in Auto mode (if they have one) or in the case of the 568, TTL mode, everything else is done at the camera mounted controller,
If you proceed and have any questions feel free to PM me.
11/05/2015 02:12:44 PM · #11
Originally posted by NikonJeb:


Your situation may be different, but IMNSHO, I would work with windows and sunlight. Get the hang of how you want the light to fall on your subject, and how different scenarios, such as a long sun at the beginning or end of day, or the stark brightness thru a tall window on an overcast day.

[...]

If you're doing this mostly for hobby/practice, then why spend the money until you *know* where and how much light you want.

I'm not saying NOT to buy all kinds of stuff if you want, but IMNSHO, learn how and what you want to shoot first, then gear up for that.

[...]


You are probably completely right. Haha... I'm probably getting ahead of myself considering I'm still a novice. Nevertheless, I find working with natural light much more intimidating than artificial. Not that I think studio lighting will be simple! Still, this is what I am drawn to and motivated to learn at the moment, at least in terms of portrait photography. Thanks for sharing your view, though. Much appreciated :)
11/05/2015 02:16:30 PM · #12
Originally posted by MichaelC:

If you proceed and have any questions feel free to PM me.


Thank you so much! I feel much more confident about what I would like to get :)
11/07/2015 01:16:21 AM · #13
A bit late to comment, but I haven't been around here much in the last couple of months.

I have been using the triggers and speedlights you are looking at quite happily for the last 2.5 years or so. Last Christmas, I added 2 Neewer softboxes (bigger than the one you are looking at 70x100cm) and a 32" Octobox to the mix. So what I have now is a slightly larger version of what you are looking at. I have been quite happy with the set, and although I would like to add some studio lights to the mix in the future, I find that these meet all my needs for now. As MichaelC already mentioned, you also get HSS capabilty, and you can add second curtain sync as well.

I have also used them on outdoor shoots multiple times, with umbrellas and bare flash. Power is the only advantage here when it comes to speedlights vs. strobes. The strobes are much more portable, and if there is any wind, you will have to sandbag your stands in either case. A studio light just makes a very top heavy light stand that will still blow over. A bare light or small modifier (like a beauty dish) is the better option in a breeze for either case.

As a side note, I find the Neewer softboxes I have to be a pretty good quality, fairly solid construction.

I will include a few sample shots to give you an idea.

2 softboxes with grids and the octobox


2 sofboxes with second curtain


Outdoors, 1 580EX II bare


(Feel free to PM me if you want more info)

Message edited by author 2015-11-07 01:21:44.
11/07/2015 02:49:21 AM · #14
Originally posted by giantmike:

Are you trying to be portable or stationary?

IF the former, these seem like good choices.

But if most of your portrait is stationary, I would suggest you look at mono lights instead of speed lights.
I bought the Elinchrom EL20842.2 D-Lite RX 4/4 With Stands about 10 months ago (there is a newer version out now). Since then, I have only used my speedlights for on camera shoots where I was bouncing light off the walls. All other times I wanted light I used these. They are so much more pleasing to use than speedlights in a controlled setting.


Curious as to why you went with those vs something like the Einstein's, which are more powerful, more adjustable, more consistent, and have shorter flash duration, while still costing $1000 for two heads.

So far as the OP, if you're looking to mount both on a light stand, you might reconsider your choice of your swivel mount. It's all plastic construction, it will almost definitely strip out before you get the thing to hold that modifier and flash, especially as it has no teeth on the connection points between the top and bottom of the product. Yes, it costs more, but seriously, look for a product like this (or a knockoff with the same metal design and interlocking teeth between the top and bottom) //www.amazon.com/dp/B000TL3IPY?psc=1. The slightly cheaper Cowboy version is also garbage, you save 33% to get a subpar locking mechanism that consists of a metal bolt sandwiched between a bunch of plastic. Don't waste your money. Yes, $10 can be spent elsewhere, but you have to draw the line on HOW cheap is TOO cheap. Another great and versatile first light modifier is a reversible umbrella. They will have way more spill than the softbox, but are simple, even, and versatile. Beware their ability to fly in the wind. I'd recommend this as a first umbrella Westcott 43" reversible umbrella. Are they super strong? No, but they are cheap, versatile, and provide pretty good quality. Can't comment on the Yongnuo products as I avoided them due to their lack of backwards compatibility and dodgy quality control when I was buying my lighting. I can't comment on their current QC, and they do have many very happy customers. If you have any further questions, let me know. Also make sure you check out Strobist for an IMMENSE amount of info on lighting technique, particularly the Lighting 101 and Lighting 102 sections (but really, all of the Strobist is glorious).
11/08/2015 08:16:16 AM · #15
Originally posted by FromDaRock:

A bit late to comment, but I haven't been around here much in the last couple of months


Never too late to join, FromDaRock. I still have lots to learn and all tips and sharing of experiences are greatly appreciated :) Thanks for also supplying some images.

Good to know that the Yongnou equipments has works well for you. I actually ordered the trigger and controller yesterday. The flash is on my x-mas wish list. I will send you a PM regarding the softboxes.

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

So far as the OP, if you're looking to mount both on a light stand, you might reconsider your choice of your swivel mount. It's all plastic construction, it will almost definitely strip out before you get the thing to hold that modifier and flash, especially as it has no teeth on the connection points between the top and bottom of the product. Yes, it costs more, but seriously, look for a product like this (or a knockoff with the same metal design and interlocking teeth between the top and bottom) //www.amazon.com/dp/B000TL3IPY?psc=1.


Good point spiritualspatula! Would this be one of these okay knockoffs? I was not sure what you meant with "interlocking teeth between the top and bottom". Also, would you, or anyone else, know what the difference is between a B-type, a D-type and an E-Type? (Google was not helpful) Edited: Googled finally helped

The above swivel will be good if I buy a umbrella, which I probably will at some stage, but what about a mount that will hold a softbox, do you think something like this is better than the S-type that comes in the Neewer kit I linked to in the original post?

Also, thank you for the Strobist link. Great page!

Message edited by author 2015-11-09 12:11:28.
11/08/2015 06:50:46 PM · #16
Originally posted by ArnaMarie:

I was not sure what you meant with "interlocking teeth between the top and bottom".

Knurled or toothed surfaces at the contact points will keep the pieces from moving past each other; those which rely on friction alone are more likely to slip and (eventually) wear out.

Message edited by author 2015-11-08 18:58:00.
11/10/2015 02:00:46 AM · #17
Originally posted by ArnaMarie:



Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

So far as the OP, if you're looking to mount both on a light stand, you might reconsider your choice of your swivel mount. It's all plastic construction, it will almost definitely strip out before you get the thing to hold that modifier and flash, especially as it has no teeth on the connection points between the top and bottom of the product. Yes, it costs more, but seriously, look for a product like this (or a knockoff with the same metal design and interlocking teeth between the top and bottom) //www.amazon.com/dp/B000TL3IPY?psc=1.


Good point spiritualspatula! Would this be one of these okay knockoffs? I was not sure what you meant with "interlocking teeth between the top and bottom". Also, would you, or anyone else, know what the difference is between a B-type, a D-type and an E-Type? (Google was not helpful) Edited: Googled finally helped

The above swivel will be good if I buy a umbrella, which I probably will at some stage, but what about a mount that will hold a softbox, do you think something like this is better than the S-type that comes in the Neewer kit I linked to in the original post?

Also, thank you for the Strobist link. Great page!


The OP also sent me a message inquiring about the swivel and how the reversible umbrella works- here's my reply, for the assistance of any who were wondering the same questions

Originally posted by ArnaMarie:


Was wondering if you could confirm that a reversible umbrella basically is a 2-in-1 umbrella where I get the shoot-through white/translucent umbrella and by putting on the black/silver cover I get a reflective umbrella. If this is correct, won't the white/translucent fabric lower the reflection? (I apologize if this is stupid, but I have never worked with artificial light before)

Also, do you think this swivel is good enough. It says metal and I see teeth on the images where it is dissembled. Alternatively, I could get one of these two: Westcott Lumoz when I go back to Australia, unless you think that will be overkill. The price is quite off-putting :)


To answer your question, yes, the reversible functions as a shoot through as well as a reflective umbrella. This is particularly of use when you want to get your light source really close and make it softer, then you can flip your umbrella around and put it just out of frame. To do so, you basically unscrew the top of the umbrella and take the black cover off. It goes back on readily. So far as if there is a drop in light power, I've never measured, it's not noticeable and wasn't significant enough to impact hotshoe flashes (unless you're working outside and trying to overpower the sun, in which case you either need multiple flashes or something more powerful or your camera needs a leaf/electronic shutter).

For the swivel, yeah, the cheap ebay one should do the trick. The design is pretty simplistic, so there isn't a lot to mess up, but I would always make sure they are metal and that they do have the teeth. There is the minor downside with them that you don't have as much adjustment (as without teeth), but that is vastly more useful than something that never stays in place. The Westcott will mostly be a bit smoother moving and more refined, but I would be surprised if the improvement really warrants the cost. Frankly, building a swivel that works isn't rocket science. One tip- do be careful tightening any swivel mount onto the umbrella, it's very easy to overtighten and to dent the shaft of the umbrella. Some folks stick a pencil into the shaft to help alleviate this (here are instructions on that).

And thanks to the General for explaining the toothed interface.
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