Minimal Editing rules - DPChallenge Forums

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

05/20/2017 02:35:39 PM · #1

You may...

rotate your image in 90-degree increments (90, 180, or 270 degrees).
resize your image.
sharpen your image using any global, non-selective sharpening tool.
fully desaturate your image using your editing software's "desaturate," "convert to grayscale" or equivalent function. Customizable tools are not allowed.
use a tool to remove sensor dust, etc from your finished image.

Is there a limit (it used to be two, I think) to how many times we are allowed to "sharpen" our minimal editing image?

What does the "etc" mean after "sensor dust"? What are we allowed to remove from our minimal editing image?

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

05/20/2017 02:55:09 PM · #2

I had originally interpreted it as a single pass of sharpen, but others have been doing multiple passes. I think it would have to be challenged to get a definitive answer, but the rules don't say how many passes.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

05/20/2017 03:08:39 PM · #3

I had thought that both the sharpening and resizing was a one-shot deal with each.

I know I always liked the Adamus sharpening on a double size image then resize to clean it up.

That doesn't seem to be a minimal type of procedure to me.

Paul

Leica SL

Voigtlander Ultron 35mm f/1.7 Aspherical MF Wide Angle - Black

05/20/2017 03:11:29 PM · #4

I believe you can sharpen as many times as you like.

I believe the etc. for dust removal might extend to other imaging artefacts - dead pixels perhaps. And, it would extend 'dust' to sand particles, hairs, spit (oh yes, I've tried to blow dust from my sensor before) etc

05/20/2017 04:51:56 PM · #5

Originally posted by Paul:

Correct on all accounts.

Specifically, on sharpening, there never WAS a restriction on how many passes could be made; THAT had to do with resizing, and you could only do it once, so originally Adamus sharpening was forbidden, but not now.

05/20/2017 05:34:57 PM · #6

Thanks, folks!

05/20/2017 06:03:55 PM · #7

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

That doesn't seem to be a minimal type of procedure to me.

FWIW, when SC cleaned the rules up we had consensus that neither resizing the image or any form of whole-image sharpening was really against the spirit of Minimal Editing. Obviously, we have to allow resizing, and we couldn't see any reason it shouldn't be done in steps if that's how you want to do it. The gains from doing it that way are, to be honest, imperceptible in nearly all cases. The sharpening was a different issue: clearly, since this is *minimal" editing, we can't allow localized sharpening; it has to be done to the whole image. But we were seeing a gray area creeping up regarding the idea of non-adjustable sharpening, because some of the newer stuff on phones, especially, only HAS adjustable sharpening. And it seems like if whatever sharpening one applies is done evenly to the entire image, that's pretty minimal right there...

Speaking for myself, on my "normal" entries I almost always sharpen with a mask, some areas receiving more, some less, and some even made LESS sharp, so it's minimal to ME anyway :-)

I hope this information is useful as the underlying rationale for the change...

05/20/2017 06:48:53 PM · #8

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:
That doesn't seem to be a minimal type of procedure to me.

FWIW, when SC cleaned the rules up we had consensus that neither resizing the image or any form of whole-image sharpening was really against the spirit of Minimal Editing. Obviously, we have to allow resizing, and we couldn't see any reason it shouldn't be done in steps if that's how you want to do it. The gains from doing it that way are, to be honest, imperceptible in nearly all cases. The sharpening was a different issue: clearly, since this is *minimal" editing, we can't allow localized sharpening; it has to be done to the whole image. But we were seeing a gray area creeping up regarding the idea of non-adjustable sharpening, because some of the newer stuff on phones, especially, only HAS adjustable sharpening. And it seems like if whatever sharpening one applies is done evenly to the entire image, that's pretty minimal right there...

Speaking for myself, on my "normal" entries I almost always sharpen with a mask, some areas receiving more, some less, and some even made LESS sharp, so it's minimal to ME anyway :-)

I hope this information is useful as the underlying rationale for the change...

I love history of the site posts. Thanks.

So... does USM work in Minimal... as long as it's image-wide?

05/20/2017 10:47:46 PM · #9

Yup to USM.

05/21/2017 12:20:18 PM · #10

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Yup to USM.

Thanks!

10/02/2018 10:55:16 PM · #11

Is high pass sharpening ok for Minimal?

10/02/2018 11:07:44 PM · #12

Originally posted by krnodil:

Is high pass sharpening ok for Minimal?

~~Yes, if it is applied globally.~~

Definitely not, because High Pass involves layers and layer modes, which we may not use in Minimal Editing.

Message edited by author 2018-10-03 12:45:35.

10/02/2018 11:28:29 PM · #13

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by krnodil:
Is high pass sharpening ok for Minimal?

Yes, if it is applied globally.

I was thinking I should probably mention why I was wondering about it in the first place... when I use High Pass, I apply it to a new layer and then set the blend mode to Overlay. So all those actions (using layers, using blend modes) is ok for Minimal when used with a globally-applied sharpening filter?

10/03/2018 12:44:27 PM · #14

Originally posted by krnodil:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by krnodil:
Is high pass sharpening ok for Minimal?

Yes, if it is applied globally.

I was thinking I should probably mention why I was wondering about it in the first place... when I use High Pass, I apply it to a new layer and then set the blend mode to Overlay. So all those actions (using layers, using blend modes) is ok for Minimal when used with a globally-applied sharpening filter?

Oh, that's a good point! I had forgotten that about High Pass. Belay my previous answer. That's a big no-no :-(

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

10/03/2018 12:52:10 PM · #15

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by krnodil:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by krnodil:
Is high pass sharpening ok for Minimal?

Yes, if it is applied globally.

I was thinking I should probably mention why I was wondering about it in the first place... when I use High Pass, I apply it to a new layer and then set the blend mode to Overlay. So all those actions (using layers, using blend modes) is ok for Minimal when used with a globally-applied sharpening filter?

Oh, that's a good point! I had forgotten that about High Pass. Belay my previous answer. That's a big no-no :-(

ha ha, ok fair enough, thanks!

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

10/03/2018 01:03:36 PM · #16

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

This is a technique I've heard of but not really tried until now -- thanks for the explanation. Maybe you could also list your default starting settings (pixel radius, layer opacity) too for folks who want to try it in non-Minimal challenges.

In my first trial it appears to be as much contrast enhancement as sharpening, with an effect similar to "high-radius UnSharp Mask" where you use the USM filter with (in PhotoShop terminology) a small "Amount" (around 15%), a high radius (50-60 pixels) and a threshold of 0 for a DPC-entry sized image (which should be legal in Minimal).

Message edited by author 2018-10-03 13:04:25.