Rules Revisions (1/3/05 and 1/5/05)

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

01/03/2005 12:22:16 AM · #1

As of January 3, 2005, two adjustments will be made to the disqualification process. These adjusted rules will begin with the Bokeh challenge.

First, an automatic penalty system will be put in place to discourage and penalize repeated disqualifications and abuse of the DQ process. As part of this system, disqualifications will carry the following penalties:

1st DQ in last 25 submissions: No penalty
2nd DQ in last 25 submissions: 1 week suspension of submission privileges
3rd DQ in last 25 submissions: 2 week suspension of submission privileges
4th DQ in last 25 submissions: 4 week suspension of submission privileges and 3 months of required �pre-submission� of proof file.

Application of these suspensions will be subject to review by Site Council. We reserve the right to waive these suspensions under extraordinary circumstances. In the case of willful violations, these penalties will be additional to those assessed for the violation itself.

Second, entries which are disqualified for reasons other than ToS violations will now be visible in the photographer's profile. This is intended both as a benefit to individuals who were disqualified but wish to retain their comments, and as a deterrent to repeated disqualifications.

As always, if you have any questions about these changes, please post them here and we will do our best to answer them for you.

deapee

Kodak V803

01/03/2005 12:24:04 AM · #2

sounds good to me.

TooCool

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

01/03/2005 12:26:39 AM · #3

Will there be an adjustment made to the perpetrators averages score? Something like adding the average number of votes for the challenge in zeros to their average? People looking to cheat won't like their average dropping like a rock...

md8speed

Nikon D200

01/03/2005 12:27:46 AM · #4

I like the update. Good work.

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

01/03/2005 12:28:58 AM · #5

Originally posted by TooCool:

We will not be adjusting scores as a majority of Site Council felt it is important to have the average scores accurately reflect the opinions of the voters.

Averages will continue to disregard votes on disqualified entries.

-Terry

ellamay

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

01/03/2005 12:29:04 AM · #6

sorry for the dumb question but what is "ToS"

But, I like it. Good idea.

01/03/2005 12:31:01 AM · #7

Interesting. Are there really users who've had that many DQs?

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

01/03/2005 12:31:31 AM · #8

Originally posted by ellamay:

sorry for the dumb question but what is "ToS"

But, I like it. Good idea.

ellamay

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

01/03/2005 12:32:47 AM · #9

thx bikeracer

TooCool

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

01/03/2005 12:32:53 AM · #10

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Than how about this? A stat on the profile page showing how many DQ's one has had? It wouldn't have to appear untill there has been an 'offense'...

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

01/03/2005 12:33:02 AM · #11

ToS = Terms of Service

-Terry

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

01/03/2005 12:34:49 AM · #12

Great addition to the site. But is there a way to let the images appear in the challenge after the voting is over so they would be easy to find. Say after the brown ribbon [last place]DPC could put the DQed pictures there and instead of having a score just have DQed and the reason.

moodville

Nikon D100

01/03/2005 12:35:31 AM · #13

Any particular reason why this is currently for advanced editing only?

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

01/03/2005 12:43:56 AM · #14

We don't like to implement rule changes mid-challenge. The same change should go into effect for basic with the next Open Challenge rollover.

-Terry

David.C

01/03/2005 01:06:58 AM · #15

Just for clarification:

The rule change takes effect with 'Bokeh'; but does the last 25 submissions start there, or is it retroactive?

Since the Open challenge rules will also be updated, it is last 25 per challenge type, or total?

Are the previously DQed images going to be reinstated into the photographer's profile, or are they already irretrievably lost?

Thanks
David

01/03/2005 01:12:26 AM · #16

Originally posted by Britannica:

I'll have to get back to you on your first question.

For the second question, the 25 is total.

Entries from prior challenges will probably not be reinstated. The rules at the time of those challenges in question called for removal of disqualified entries, and are still subject to the terms of those rule sets.

-Terry

01/03/2005 01:14:23 AM · #17

So, are there really that many repeat offenders? Can you guys give us an idea of what the stats on repeat offenders is like? Without naming names of course...

01/03/2005 01:19:44 AM · #18

Originally posted by BikeRacer:

So, are there really that many repeat offenders? Can you guys give us an idea of what the stats on repeat offenders is like? Without naming names of course...

There are not that many, but the ones that do waste a lot of time for Site Council who has to deal with the repeated DQ's, and more importantly, cumulatively for site users who take the time vote and comment in good faith on entries that should never have been entered in the first place.

In both cases that time could be better spent elsewhere, and this progresive penalty system will help ensure that is possible.

-Terry

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

01/03/2005 01:24:45 AM · #19

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by BikeRacer:
So, are there really that many repeat offenders? Can you guys give us an idea of what the stats on repeat offenders is like? Without naming names of course...

There are not that many, but the ones that do waste a lot of time for Site Council who has to deal with the repeated DQ's, and more importantly, cumulatively for site users who take the time vote and comment in good faith on entries that should never have been entered in the first place.

In both cases that time could be better spent elsewhere, and this progresive penalty system will help ensure that is possible.

-Terry

Thanks. BTW, I wasn't complaining, it's just the concept of repeat DQer's is hard to wrap my mind around.

coolhar

01/03/2005 02:45:14 AM · #20

Thanks D&L. That is a major improvement. I have always thought there was no penalty for a DQ if the person did not make it public themselves, or, of course, it ribboned. I think that making the results of the DQ process public will be a big deterent.

Message edited by author 2005-01-03 02:46:39.

geewhy

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

01/03/2005 06:34:09 AM · #21

I`m also in favour of some form of punishment for people who deliberately try to cheat the system..however,I think we may be opening up a can of worms here.. having been on the receiving end of my first DQ in a recent challenge,I know how easy it is to fall foul of those rules without any deliberate intent...in fact I tried to get a ruling on my image before submitting as advised in the rules but without success...would I have been punished for this if it had been my second similar offence?

A few members have been DQ`d for going against the "spirit of the rules" which again, can mean different things to different folks and while a Dq is acceptable, I think further punishment for this type of offence would be a bit harsh.

I would like to have seen this imposed primarily on the people who submit images that are not taken in the time frame allowed or a similar "No excuses" type of offence as one warning is surely enough in those circumstances...not so sure about it being applied across the board though.

Travis99

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/03/2005 06:42:07 AM · #22

I was DQ'ed in the second challenge I ever entered, because of a date stamp. My camera had no internal memory so I had to adjust the time, each time I changed the batteries. Does that count as my first DQ?

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

01/03/2005 08:24:51 AM · #23

RE-Ask a question from earlier. I know you had a lot of questions hitting you at once and you may not of seen mine. Here is my question:

Is there a way to let the DQ'ed images appear in the challenge after the voting is over so they would be easy to find. Say after the brown ribbon [last place]DPC could put the DQed pictures there and instead of having a score just have DQed and the in the comment area they could put the reason.
This is not to point out the photographer but so we can see why a particular photograph was DQ'ed and why, so we may not make the same mistake.

Message edited by author 2005-01-03 08:25:16.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

01/03/2005 08:47:57 AM · #24

Scott,
While constructing the new system, we did not discuss visibility in the challenge, only in the profile. I do think this is a great idea, and is in the spirit of the change. Although a major reason for the change was to curtail abuse of the system, we certainly felt that there was a big upside, that being the fact that comments on DQ'd shots would not be "lost". Your proposal takes this one step further, and provides opportunity for learning. Of course, those photos that are found to violate the site ToS would of course need to be removed.