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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Nikon D70 vs Canon 20D - Colour depth.
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02/02/2005 03:21:11 AM · #1
Hey everyone, i know the subject of the D70 vs 20D has been debated to death, and this post is not about which of those two is better , but rather how it performs in term of colour quality and depth.

I currently own a Nikon D70 and have been very unsatisfied with the overall quality of Nikons service and have been thinking of switching for a Canon 20D. After reviewing both camera, i came to the conclusion that they are both almost exactly the same... (give or take a few thingies here and there). But my biggest concern is the colour depth before post-prod (photoshop and stuff).

Ive checked a few review sites (www.imaging-ressource.com) being my favorite, and of all the places ive seen, it seems the Canon 20D has really weak colours compared to the Nikon D70.

Does anyone have comments on both cameras (have experience with both) and can comment on this? It would greatly help in my final choice.

Thanks for everyones time on this issue!
02/02/2005 03:32:19 AM · #2
The differnce between the two cameras in color depth is insignifigant when compared to the differnces that each can be set to depending on your post production prefences.If you shoot in parameter 2, bright and shiny comes out of the camera, shoot in AdobeRGB and it comes out dull flat and much easier to work with in photoshot.
Pick a line of lenses that you prefer, or the camera body that fits your hands better, but don't say that either is incapable of producing rich color images because there are plenty of shots on this site or in any publication you can buy that argue that they can.
02/02/2005 03:36:11 AM · #3
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

but don't say that either is incapable of producing rich color images because there are plenty of shots on this site or in any publication you can buy that argue that they can.


I am not arguing about that. Post-production in photoshop is one thing, but the colour depth you get from camera bodies change constantly, and from reviews i find around the net, the 20D has weak colours compared to the D70. This is what this post is about. not Post production and shots, which are obviously photoshop befriended.

02/02/2005 03:49:09 AM · #4
set up for Adobe RGB...shoot RAW...and any color diferences will not matter.
good advice...pick your lenses, then find a body. much more satisfied that way.
02/02/2005 03:59:29 AM · #5
If you intend to use your DSLR in the manner that HP tries to advertise thier's, that is plug them straight into the printer and print out your shots, then "out of the box" shots have great relvance. However if you are going to spend enough to get a D70 or it's ilk what is the point of shooting for "out of the camera" settings, especially if it will limit the data that is available to you for post processing? I like to shoot ARBG in RAW 16 bit, but it makes muddy shots unprocessed when viewed on the LCD on the back of the camera when compared to lower sharper, brighter settings, but it gives lots more options when I go to process. When you shoot film you can look at the developed film and guess what you can get out of your prints, but untill you have put it on paper in the darkroom you don't have a finished produt. I would say that the "Digital darkroom" has the same sort of place, where the other half of photography is brought forward. Don't pick a camera based on how it does half the job if you plan to finish the job anyway. Someone in the groups has a quote on the end of their posts that I will now butcher; the film is like the musical score, the print is the preformance of that score. That's my two cents. I descend from the soapbox.

Message edited by author 2005-02-02 04:19:48.
02/02/2005 06:57:23 AM · #6
What have you been unhappy with related to Nikons service? As someone who works in the industry I can safely say that both companies have some spectacular moments of real stupidity when it comes to customer service. I've had Canon lost a customer camera for 5 months, and I've had Nikon send back a camera without actually reparing it.

My next question is why is out of camera color depth important to you?

Clara
02/02/2005 08:01:24 AM · #7
I've been very happy with my Kodak. It uses nikon lenses. The two best things about the camera are the range and depth of colors, and Kodak service, simply awesome. If you can't afford an slr/N, you probably can get a pro14 slr pretty cheap. The worse thing about the camera are the noise levels above iso 320. If you shoot a lot of studio and photos with decent lite, this is a fabulous choice for Nikon lens people.
02/02/2005 08:18:58 AM · #8
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:

set up for Adobe RGB...shoot RAW...and any color diferences will not matter.
good advice...pick your lenses, then find a body. much more satisfied that way.


RAW + A-RGB certainly has the highest potential for quality output, but as a generalization, JPG out of the camera will produce a better image than RAW out of the camera because because both Canon and Nikon have good image processing chips. They automatically apply sharpening, saturation, and curves which the RAW image doesn't have. You have know what you're doing, and be willing to do it in order to benefit from RAW. I find that my D70's JPG output is in some cases better than I've been able to reproduce in RAW (note, I saw SOME cases).

Have you tried shooting in sRGB mode III (extra saturation)? Have you adjusted the D70's custom settings to tweak tone/contrast? Have you tried using the Nikon Capture trial to upload the custom white wedding curve?

As for the color depth, perhaps it's your technique? Not intending to be rude, but both the D70 and 20D are extremely capable of professional, publishable work. As mentioned before, this is documented widely. You have to be using unbelievably bad equipment, or have an extremely tight professional niche these days to have a good reason to change brands.
02/02/2005 10:06:39 AM · #9
Quality of colour is one of the factors that made me choose my current camera, the Minolta 7D.
In many people's opinions, the colour quality is heads and shoulders above the Nikon and Canon DSLRs.
02/02/2005 10:23:03 AM · #10
It's all about the settings and parms and the individual who sets them up. If we are comparing out of the box cams (default settings) we might as welll go with the Canon Powershot Pro1 as out of the box it has better color depth, sharpness and contrast than both the above. One would have to experiment with settings to get the end result they desire.
02/02/2005 10:59:06 AM · #11
I don't think so.
Different cameras have different 'feel' in terms of colour.
It can be quite subtle, but very noticable if you know what to look for.
Straight out-of-the-camera colour balancing is still important to most photographers, even when using lots of PP.
Personally, I've found that the Minolta 7D has a (colour and grain) feel much more similar to film than any other camera.
Prosumers might have a glossier more saturated feel straight out of the camera, but this is a completely different quality.
02/02/2005 11:09:49 AM · #12
i dont even know what this means: "color depth". clearly you don't mean bit depth, because they are the same for both cameras.

do you just mean 'saturation'? because if so, that is a parameter that is changeable in 2 seconds in the cameras' menus.
02/02/2005 11:17:50 AM · #13
There is a lot of miss information of color, maybe I can add some more.
For most of use working in AdobeRGB has little value, why? Because the monitors we use can not reproduce the color gambit of AdobeRGB and most printer that we will use are setup to take sRGB as the main input. Here is a well thought out article on this, you will need to sign up for an account to read this but it is free to do so.
//www.shootsmarter.com/infocenter/wc025.html

I am not sure what you mean by weak colors, I suspect you mean under saturated. Almost all cameras allow you to adjust the saturation of what comes out of the camera, in general it is a good idea to keep the saturation fairly low and bump it up in PS if needed for a photo.
02/03/2005 03:26:40 AM · #14
Thanks for all the replies! To clarify, it seems the correct term i was refering to is . Since i dont have experience with the 20D, i had to search the internet for referencial pictures. Now the problem is, i need pictures that are out of the box to have a good idea of how both camera perform. The best exemple i could find is from www.imaging-ressource.com, where all pics are taken with the same equivalent settings, without any post-production applications or modifications. The Idea behind this is to give a good send of what the cameras generic results gives. Its just like testing food. If you want to know which chip you like better, but taste one with your favorite dip, its not gonna give you an objective idea of the taste (ok wierd exemple, but that is the exemple i,m looking for).

Also, the reason why i am strugling with my camera (d70) is because i find it is quite small. I had planned on purchasing a battery pack attachment for it, but as it turns out, Nikon is not releasing one, and so far, there is only one other attachment (third party) that will be released shortly, and frankly, it doesnt look too good. So long story short, i am looking at the 20Ds performance out-of-the-box to tell me if it performs as good as the D70. To justify a switch to Canon.

Lots say it doesnt matter because you always retouch in photoshop, but for me it matters, because it gives you a good incentive as how good a quality product the camera is.

So thanks for the replies, ill be looking more into the subject and make a decision.

02/03/2005 03:29:43 AM · #15
Perhaps also wait for PMA, Nikon is expected to come with a D100 replacement and that will likely be able to take a vertical grip. That way you don't have to sell all the other Nikon stuff with a loss.
02/03/2005 04:34:46 AM · #16
Originally posted by RedOak:

Also, the reason why i am strugling with my camera (d70) is because i find it is quite small.

The D70 is SMALL? You ever held a 300D?! :-)

While I'm on the point of making the same switch (for different reasons), the 20D and the D70 are pretty similar in dimensions and I wouldn't have described either of them as particularly small. Quite the opposite.
02/03/2005 06:07:11 AM · #17
ok, well a Canon G6 is small, a D70 is medium sized... a nikon D2x is big.

I have huge hands and when i hold the D70, it fits in about 3/4 of my hand, which makes for unconfortable long-sequencial shots. When holding a D2H, EOS-1 or those other big cameras, although they are usuall heavier, they are alot more confortable to hold for me. Hence the batterypack.

Azrifel, i havent heard of the PMA. As for my Nikon gear, right now its composed of 2 cheap 5.6 lense. So no big loss there. Im aiming at 2.8 lense next, so wheter a change to Canon or not, it doesnt matter much.

Ill look into the PMA thing, thanks a bunch for that.
02/03/2005 06:42:29 AM · #18
Not only does the 7D have excellent colour properties straight out of the camera, but I find it the best in terms of size and feel. If you have big hands, the 7D should feel very nice indeed. Give it a try.
02/03/2005 07:15:45 AM · #19
Originally posted by RedOak:

I have huge hands and when i hold the D70, it fits in about 3/4 of my hand...


And I thought Pete (Ganders) 's hands were big!

;o)
02/03/2005 07:27:36 AM · #20
Originally posted by RedOak:

I had planned on purchasing a battery pack attachment for it, but as it turns out, Nikon is not releasing one...


What are you doing that a battery which packs 1000+ shots isn't up for? I carry two batteries with me which guarentees me 2000+ images. I don't even have that much room on CF cards.

I don't think anyone is trying to talk you out of using images straight from the camera, but it sounds to me like you haven't yet explored custom curves or custom image settings. You can get tremendous flexibility straight from the camera on the D70. If it's giving you bad color, it's either set wrong, or it's broken.

As for size, the D70 is quite comfortable in big hands... I'm 6'2 and have big hands - the D70's "feel" is what made me buy it over the Canon line. It felt more natural in my hands. They're both great, but the Nikon felt more ergonomic to my grip.
02/03/2005 07:53:15 AM · #21
Originally posted by cghubbell:

Originally posted by RedOak:

I had planned on purchasing a battery pack attachment for it, but as it turns out, Nikon is not releasing one...


What are you doing that a battery which packs 1000+ shots isn't up for?


Clearly, from RedOak's posts, his interest in the battery grip is for it's contribution to increasing the SIZE of the camera for comfort in his very large hands, rather than related to issues with battery life.

That's how I read it, anyway.

Battery life on the D70 is indeed phenomenal.

Message edited by author 2005-02-03 07:53:48.
02/03/2005 08:00:23 AM · #22
As for size I have a similar issue, I'm 6'7" with pretty big hands, I find the D70 comfortable although I'm sure the D2X would be a better fit ;)

You can see how it fits in my hands from my business card


02/03/2005 08:12:01 AM · #23
Originally posted by colda:

You can see how it fits in my hands from my business card


They look bigger than your head, but... surely that's perspective? ;o)
02/03/2005 08:14:23 AM · #24
Originally posted by Kavey:

Originally posted by colda:

You can see how it fits in my hands from my business card


They look bigger than your head, but... surely that's perspective? ;o)


you're supposed to focus on the hands/camera not the bald bit ;)
02/03/2005 08:26:29 AM · #25

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