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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Framing II Results Recalcuated
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 06/21/2006 12:25:25 PM · #1
The image formerly in 4th place has been disqualified. Congratulations to all who moved up in the challenge!
 06/21/2006 12:26:15 PM · #2
:) Bless him, he didn't understand the one image rule!

Message edited by author 2006-06-21 12:27:21.
 06/21/2006 12:28:43 PM · #3
At least he was honest in his comments :-) A case of "I didn't know" I'm sure.

Message edited by author 2006-06-21 12:29:02.
 06/21/2006 12:29:42 PM · #4
Yup. Its a lovely image! Still deserves praise.
 06/21/2006 12:33:25 PM · #5
I'm not so sure it's a matter of the "one image" rule per se; I believe in advanced editing it's allowed to do several exposures of the same scene and merge them using HDR techniques. But this was a basic editing challenge, so it wouldn't be allowed in that ruleset.

And yes, it was a lovely image.

R.
 06/21/2006 12:35:27 PM · #6
I believe it's allowable to post-process an individual RAW file for several different exposures and combine but not actually take several different exposures in the camera and merge them. Perhaps that's something that should be cleared up.
 06/21/2006 12:40:48 PM · #7
What MK just said above is surely not OK for Basic Rules. How about advanced? And how about combining the RAW conversion images with a slight move of a few pixels between each? I have been testing combing 3 RAW conversions made using various white balance adjustments.
 06/21/2006 12:41:21 PM · #8
Originally posted by mk:
I believe it's allowable to post-process an individual RAW file for several different exposures and combine but not actually take several different exposures in the camera and merge them. Perhaps that's something that should be cleared up.


It certainly should be if there's any question about it. I can't offhand think why it should be disallowed if RAW variations are OK to merge. Certainly, for true HDR images you HAVE to take different exposures. especially if the scene has a really dramatic range from light to dark.

R.
 06/21/2006 12:47:50 PM · #9
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by mk:
I believe it's allowable to post-process an individual RAW file for several different exposures and combine but not actually take several different exposures in the camera and merge them. Perhaps that's something that should be cleared up.


It certainly should be if there's any question about it. I can't offhand think why it should be disallowed if RAW variations are OK to merge. Certainly, for true HDR images you HAVE to take different exposures. especially if the scene has a really dramatic range from light to dark.

R.


This has been discussed before, the reason it's ok with several renderings of a raw file and not multiple files is that with the single raw file there is only 1 picture with EXIF information. If you braket with 3 pictures you have 3 different exifs.

It's the same reasoning as to why you can take multiple exposures in camera (like on the D200) but not with multiple pictures. A challenge entry is only allowed to have a single EXIF tag.
 06/21/2006 12:50:21 PM · #10
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by mk:
I believe it's allowable to post-process an individual RAW file for several different exposures and combine but not actually take several different exposures in the camera and merge them. Perhaps that's something that should be cleared up.


It certainly should be if there's any question about it. I can't offhand think why it should be disallowed if RAW variations are OK to merge. Certainly, for true HDR images you HAVE to take different exposures. especially if the scene has a really dramatic range from light to dark.

R.


Just recently I was wondering if merging RAW variations in an advanced challenge would be allowed, and for some reason, I just assumed it would not be. So there may be others out there thinking the same thing. I'd love to get a clarification on this.

Liz
 06/21/2006 12:51:58 PM · #11
Originally posted by GentleSoul:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by mk:
I believe it's allowable to post-process an individual RAW file for several different exposures and combine but not actually take several different exposures in the camera and merge them. Perhaps that's something that should be cleared up.


It certainly should be if there's any question about it. I can't offhand think why it should be disallowed if RAW variations are OK to merge. Certainly, for true HDR images you HAVE to take different exposures. especially if the scene has a really dramatic range from light to dark.

R.


Just recently I was wondering if merging RAW variations in an advanced challenge would be allowed, and for some reason, I just assumed it would not be. So there may be others out there thinking the same thing. I'd love to get a clarification on this.

Liz


Unless something has changed it is allowed as long as it all comes from the same original file.

Edit: I mean in advanced editing ;)

Message edited by author 2006-06-21 12:54:11.
 06/21/2006 12:58:18 PM · #12
Indeed it was a beautiful photo, well done even using HDR it still took a lot of work and skill. Well done.

SO, SC's please clarify is three different pics taken within asecond or two and HDR'd allowed in Advanced. I don't believe it is because of the different EXIF and would take three photos to validate. SOOOOooo SC's please clarify so no one else will fall into the trap by misunderstanding the rules.
 06/21/2006 01:01:23 PM · #13
It's allowed to process three RAW files to 3 jpeg files because it's the same thing that PS does when it creates a pixel containging layer, no matter that you have to save and then import the three layers to PS later, they still came from the one original file.

I'd consider it akin to having 3 background copy layers, one with contrast masking, one with blurring, one with sharpening or dodge/burn. Still containg pixel information, and still different processed copies of the original file.
06/21/2006 01:03:13 PM · #14
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
Indeed it was a beautiful photo, well done even using HDR it still took a lot of work and skill. Well done.

SO, SC's please clarify is three different pics taken within asecond or two and HDR'd allowed in Advanced. I don't believe it is because of the different EXIF and would take three photos to validate. SOOOOooo SC's please clarify so no one else will fall into the trap by misunderstanding the rules.


To clarify: Entries MUST come from a SINGLE exposure. So multiple exposures, no matter how close in time, cannot be stacked to form an entry under advanced or basic (unless there are special challenge rules added to the specific challenge). Using the SAME exposure from raw and processing them differently and then restacking them IS allowed in advanced but not in basic.
 06/21/2006 01:04:15 PM · #15
Originally posted by frisca:
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
Indeed it was a beautiful photo, well done even using HDR it still took a lot of work and skill. Well done.

SO, SC's please clarify is three different pics taken within asecond or two and HDR'd allowed in Advanced. I don't believe it is because of the different EXIF and would take three photos to validate. SOOOOooo SC's please clarify so no one else will fall into the trap by misunderstanding the rules.


To clarify: Entries MUST come from a SINGLE exposure. So multiple exposures, no matter how close in time, cannot be stacked to form an entry under advanced or basic (unless there are special challenge rules added to the specific challenge). Using the SAME exposure from raw and processing them differently and then restacking them IS allowed in advanced but not in basic.


Thanks. :)
 06/21/2006 01:04:16 PM · #16
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
Indeed it was a beautiful photo, well done even using HDR it still took a lot of work and skill. Well done.

SO, SC's please clarify is three different pics taken within asecond or two and HDR'd allowed in Advanced. I don't believe it is because of the different EXIF and would take three photos to validate. SOOOOooo SC's please clarify so no one else will fall into the trap by misunderstanding the rules.

No ... the rules state that the entry must derive from a single image. In the case of RAW images, there is still a single original exposure, even if two versions are processed out of it and subsequently re-combined.

You can partly simulate this effect (with less effectiveness) by copying the background layer of your original (of any type), applying separate tonal corrections to the two versions, and then recombining using a combination of masks and/or opacity and blending settings to achieve the desired look.

Combined bracketed exposures derive from multiple originals, and are not allowed under the current rules.
 06/21/2006 01:06:36 PM · #17
Thanks! The rules stand as most of us believed. Cut and dry answers like this is perfect. Thanks again Frisca!
 06/21/2006 01:20:16 PM · #18
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
...I don't believe it is because of the different EXIF and would take three photos to validate...


When asked to validate a photo they are wanting to look at your unaltered exif information. If you braketed and you final image consisted of a combination of 3 images you'd need to send in 3 different pictures to validate which would end up in a DQ.

Anything done in camera is legal - so as long as you have one image with 1 unaltered EXIF you are safe. (obviuosly I'm not talking about the legality of what may happen to the picture in post processing).
 06/21/2006 01:26:07 PM · #19
Originally posted by Megatherian:
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
...I don't believe it is because of the different EXIF and would take three photos to validate...


When asked to validate a photo they are wanting to look at your unaltered exif information. If you braketed and you final image consisted of a combination of 3 images you'd need to send in 3 different pictures to validate which would end up in a DQ.

Anything done in camera is legal - so as long as you have one image with 1 unaltered EXIF you are safe. (obviuosly I'm not talking about the legality of what may happen to the picture in post processing).


I stumbled over this at first too but he's actually agreeing with you. His first sentence was "please clarify is three different pics taken within asecond or two and HDR'd allowed in Advanced." He doesn't believe it is [legal] because of the different exif... :)
 06/21/2006 01:39:01 PM · #20
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by Megatherian:
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
...I don't believe it is because of the different EXIF and would take three photos to validate...


When asked to validate a photo they are wanting to look at your unaltered exif information. If you braketed and you final image consisted of a combination of 3 images you'd need to send in 3 different pictures to validate which would end up in a DQ.

Anything done in camera is legal - so as long as you have one image with 1 unaltered EXIF you are safe. (obviuosly I'm not talking about the legality of what may happen to the picture in post processing).


I stumbled over this at first too but he's actually agreeing with you. His first sentence was "please clarify is three different pics taken within asecond or two and HDR'd allowed in Advanced." He doesn't believe it is [legal] because of the different exif... :)


yea, I was just trying to clarify what I meant in my first post. There have been dozens of posts about multiple exposures (and let's face it, that's what we're really talking about here), especially when the d200 was released and at the end of all the various debates it seemed to all come down to - "can the photo be validated?" and whether it can or not all depends on the unaltered exif information.
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