DPL ... for those in doubt. - DPChallenge Forums

05/09/2007 12:56:04 PM · #1

Edit 2 Days before DPL1 -
You know people are going to start popping out of the woodwork once the season starts, after DPL has been plastered on the front page for a week or more, and ask if it's too late to join. If you think you might fit in that category...now's the time, pull the trigger and do it. My advice, there is not enough time for you to sit around waiting for someone to pick you just create a team.

Alright I�m writing this only to try and ease some rumors or maybe remove the bad taste in your mouth about the DPL (AKA � WPL). The DPL has fixed�or will fix many of the problems that we had with the WPL. One of the biggest will be that teammates will not be able to vote on each others entry. This allows the team members to freely share their entries and get advice on how to do different techniques and how to better tune the ones you already use. We don�t advocate other members do the edits for another member�but once you have been taught correctly then it is now something you know how to do yourself�the whole teach a man how to fish kinda thing.

I know many people don�t want to join a team because they think they don�t have anything to offer them or that they don�t want to feel pressured to enter every week; but they feel if they aren�t on a team they will be left behind and not have the advantages of the teams in that they can share their photos and make themselves better in that account. I am hearing of people forming teams to just be a team and not worry so much about the competition and more about the learning. I think that is fine�when pressure is relieved it makes doing something you might not have easier. The members of these teams might find themselves learning more and entering challenges they might not have when by them selves. This I believe is one of the highlights to the DPL.

If you don�t want to join a team your experience on DPC will not change. When you ask for advice in the forums you will still get swarmed by the generosity that overflows here on this site. So you will still be able to learn as much as you possible can handle. The only thing you might notice is more talk of the DPL and how much fun it is; which might persuade you to join next season. So if you think you might enjoy this just a little I say go for it�form a no stress team and state that to your members in the beginning so people who might want to do it more for the competition know where your team stands.

Here is the Free Agent Pool�tons of people willing to play, learn, and find new fiends to grow with in their photography. Here is how to create a team.. Very simple.

If you have any concerns please let us know�this was meant for learning and to really just have fun!!

Clint

Message edited by author 2007-05-11 14:00:14.

05/09/2007 01:12:51 PM · #2

Here are some things I've heard...

Originally posted by ursula:

Originally posted by Sting11165:

Originally posted by KarenNfld:

Originally posted by Ben:

Originally posted by Melethia:
I fear that those of us not in the DPL will begin to suffer a bit - we won't have teammates to help us pick which picture to enter nor offer editing advice, teach us neat tricks, etc. I suppose the answer to this is "join a team!" but I'm not comfortable with doing that - my scores don't support competition well.

This sums up how i feel.

I agree with you 100%!! I am not in the DPL for many reasons, one of which is I don't feel comfortable with the pressure of having to submit a photo for a challenge. For example, I never shoot self portraits, nudes, candids, or portraits. Sports, pets, animals and many other topics are others I rarely shoot.

Hey, for those of you who don't want the pressure from the DPL but want the benefits:

Start a team based on collaborating instead of doing well. As long as everyone on the team knows, going in, that you aren't expecting to do well in the league, you can focus on the social aspects of the DPL, have fun, and learn a lot. Just make sure everyone knows that it isn't about submitting to all the challenges or getting the best possible score.

I guarantee you could get the needed people for a team or two.

The part of the DPL I'm most excited about is the ability to collaborate with others before submission!

Another way to look at it though is, some people work better by themselves, others work better in groups. I much much prefer to work by myself. I am, however, part of a team, for the fun of it. I don't think people are at a disadvantage because of not being on a team.

05/09/2007 01:13:20 PM · #3

Originally posted by Melethia:

Originally posted by TomFoolery:

Originally posted by Melethia:

Originally posted by TomFoolery:
You only need 4 scores out of a possible 7 person team. If you are all collaborating then you might find yourself entering photos you like to challenges you might not have entered by yourself. It's not that much pressure if you don't want it to be...it gets people out of there secluded place on DPC and allows them an outlet to talk regularly to the same people who will grow with you and will be beneficial to you all. There is nothing wrong with the DPL...only people looking to make it wrong.

I don't mean to say that the DPL is a bad thing - I think it's great for those that enjoy the competition and it does create strong friendships and mentorship�s. I just think those of us not playing are going to lose out a bit. I don't want to be on a team because I generally don't score very well - I don't want to feel that I've let people down because my entry failed to garner enough points to help us beat the other guys. I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way, either.

I just hope that the general level of assistance here will stay the same - when people need help on a shot (not prior to a challenge or for the purposes of a challenge) I hope that'll still be there, that people won't hide their "secrets" for the sake of the team - that kind of thing.

I don't think you have anything to worry there. DPC will never have a shortage of people ready to help you any way they can. Like others have said just a few comments above mine there are teams forming to be more a team and less competitive. You get to share your photo and learn more but the pressure of competing is lifted...and usually when that happens you find yourself submitting anyways and doing better than you though. Whatever you choose to do know that DPC changes for the better and will never leave people out of the "circle".

Thanks Clint - good words!

05/09/2007 01:13:35 PM · #4

Originally posted by TomFoolery:

Originally posted by yanko:
I don't think that would be fair to the rest of the league when one division has a team who isn't really playing. However, I do like the idea and think you should suggest it as a standalone. In other words, have a a feature on the site that allows you to select x amount of users who can't vote on your work that way you can share with them your entries. You'd have to make it so that the people being selected must confirm it otherwise you'll get people selecting those with low average vote casts just so those people can't vote on your entries. :P

Maybe a team could make a team but opt out to enter this season. Teams that are made will be able to use the team page even if they aren't in the current season. I'm sure any team that does DPL1 can hang out and jump back in DPL3 without their team page being deleted. Thus allowing them to see each others photo but not being able to vote on them.

Elvis_L

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

05/09/2007 01:16:21 PM · #5

well said Clint

atupdate

Pentax K-R

Promaster 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 XR IF

05/09/2007 02:27:55 PM · #6

I still think that having multiple DPC members give you guidance on which image to submit and potential ways to post process is a major advantage to the DPL team members. Although the voting restrictions help eliminate the "friend voting" issue, the playing field in general is becoming less level.

Tim

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

05/09/2007 02:37:17 PM · #7

per yanko's comment... how can a team that is not rabid to get the highest score possible *hurt* the teams that are? Won't it just be fodder for their glorious ascension?

Message edited by author 2007-05-09 14:37:49.

05/09/2007 02:39:46 PM · #8

Originally posted by atupdate:

I think the opposite. I think it's an opportunity to help pull up those members of the DPC community that want to do better, but that inside the standard challenge structure get little to no feedback. I call that more level not less.

I have a friend that showed me her Triptych entry after she shot it. I told her exactly what she'd hear about it IF she got comments during voting. I was quiet hard on her. I actually thought I'd discouraged her from submitting. Turned out she went out and RESHOT the image going from a 4.8 average to shooting a personal best of 6.2.

I'm very proud of her and she learned something. That's a beautiful thing, no?

Elvis_L

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

05/09/2007 02:40:22 PM · #9

Originally posted by posthumous:

per yanko's comment... how can a team that is not rabid to get the highest score possible *hurt* the teams that are? Won't it just be fodder for their glorious ascension?

in theory teams that competed against the team that didn't try would have an easier time making the playoffs over someone that didn't play them.

05/09/2007 02:46:17 PM · #10

Originally posted by atupdate:

Yes but this happens even today...people will send their friends a photo and ask their opinion. Even DPC members do this with other DPC members. This allows for it to happen more structured and not allowing those people to vote. I'm sure everyone has done this with their family and friends. We all want to submit the best we can. If someone can catch a stupid mistake we overlooked, whether they are a teammate on the DPL, or a friend in your living room...I'd say that is perfectly fine. As long as that person is not doing the editing for you.

Ubersteiny

Sigma 35mm f1.4 dg hsm for Canon

05/09/2007 02:52:00 PM · #11

Originally posted by Elvis_L:

Originally posted by posthumous:
per yanko's comment... how can a team that is not rabid to get the highest score possible *hurt* the teams that are? Won't it just be fodder for their glorious ascension?

in theory teams that competed against the team that didn't try would have an easier time making the playoffs over someone that didn't play them.

After registration is does SC will be matching teams up with similar avg.s from profiles and previous WPL seasons, so those types of teams should be matched up with eachother, then the super good teams with the super good teams and so on and so forth

RainMotorsports

Nikon D60

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

05/09/2007 02:57:25 PM · #12

They should really be matched up however teams would be if the WPL had never been. Same as the opening race of a season.

05/09/2007 05:36:48 PM · #13

I'm not sure but I don't think they are using any WPL stats. DPL is like a brand new thing...but they won't forget the origins.

05/09/2007 06:01:33 PM · #14

Originally posted by TomFoolery:

I'm not sure but I don't think they are using any WPL stats. DPL is like a brand new thing...but they won't forget the origins.

Originally posted by DPL League FAQ:

13 - How does my team get allocated a division/conference/league?

Teams are allocated a division (and thus a conference and league) based on either their previous season�s final score (for existing teams), or the overall team average score for the last month of entries (for new teams). All finalised teams will be ranked at season start, and allocated a league, conference, and division based on this ranking, so that the top 4 teams (with 2 leagues and 2 conferences per league) will not play each other until the playoffs.

Sounds like the existing WPL teams are based on the last WPL season.

05/09/2007 06:09:13 PM · #15

I knew I didn't know for sure.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

05/09/2007 08:55:48 PM · #16

Originally posted by Elvis_L:

That reminds me of my sister who used to say a die roll didn't count if it hit somebody's hand. "You affected the result!"

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

05/09/2007 09:01:45 PM · #17

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by Elvis_L:

Originally posted by posthumous:
per yanko's comment... how can a team that is not rabid to get the highest score possible *hurt* the teams that are? Won't it just be fodder for their glorious ascension?

in theory teams that competed against the team that didn't try would have an easier time making the playoffs over someone that didn't play them.

That reminds me of my sister who used to say a die roll didn't count if it hit somebody's hand. "You affected the result!"

I think you've said too much, young knight...

Konador

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

05/09/2007 09:02:36 PM · #18

Originally posted by DPL League FAQ:

I don't actually think we're doing this any more. Just basing it on recent averages.

05/09/2007 09:13:07 PM · #19

So I was unsureably right...haha.

05/09/2007 09:14:51 PM · #20

Originally posted by Konador:

Originally posted by DPL League FAQ:
13 - How does my team get allocated a division/conference/league?

Teams are allocated a division (and thus a conference and league) based on either their previous season�s final score (for existing teams)

I don't actually think we're doing this any more. Just basing it on recent averages.

Define recent.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

05/09/2007 09:46:43 PM · #21

Originally posted by posthumous:

per yanko's comment... how can a team that is not rabid to get the highest score possible *hurt* the teams that are? Won't it just be fodder for their glorious ascension?

The point is the division that housed that team would in a sense be giving the rest of the teams in that division 1-2 easy wins in a 5 week season. Unless you have a team not playing in every division it will really make the schedule unbalanced.

ETA: It's not about trying to get the highest score and win each week it's about making sure every team is "playing", which is getting in at least 4 entries a week. What incentive would it be for a team not playing to do that every week?

Message edited by author 2007-05-09 21:48:54.

bmartuch

Nikon D7200

Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G

05/09/2007 10:30:38 PM · #22

It sounds to me like people are taking this way too seriously. I thought this was about having fun and not worrying whether one team plays a weaker team and the other one doesn't. Maybe there should be two leagues, one that is out for blood and one that isn't.

Just my thoughts.

05/09/2007 10:36:16 PM · #23

I agree that each team should try and get their 4 scores in a week. This is not hard to do if you have a team of 7. If they are making the teams to collaborate then they should have images to submit.

yanko