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02/17/2005 03:46:08 PM · #1 |
ok this was a bad idea, EDIT POST!!!!!!!!!
Message edited by author 2005-02-17 15:57:48. |
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02/17/2005 03:47:00 PM · #2 |
I would imagine in Basic editing you would get a DQ
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02/17/2005 03:49:40 PM · #3 |
Why did you remove the word God??
Just curious.
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02/17/2005 03:50:28 PM · #4 |
That's an interesting question. Assuming the POINT of the picture is to remove "God" from the coin, like making a moral statement, I'd think this would be ok in advanced editing. But I'm not SC...
Robt.
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02/17/2005 03:50:47 PM · #5 |
You shouldn't be talking about challenge entries (or probably challenge entries) in the forums. If you have a question about a possible illegal edit, you should contact the SC with your photo and your questions.
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02/17/2005 03:51:13 PM · #6 |
I think "God" is a major element.
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02/17/2005 03:51:52 PM · #7 |
| I think it's great. In advanced editing it shouldn't...but I guess it's subjective. If God is considered a major element. Wow, that's sticky territory. But otherwise it would just be a photo of a coin. Now it actually has a message. |
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02/17/2005 03:52:50 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Corwyn:
Why did you remove the word God??
Just curious. |
That would be my question in the challenge also, not sure if everyone would make the automatic connection between the separation of church and state. I know it's not always possible, but I think the image should say what the subject/idea is without words. Just my opinion. |
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02/17/2005 03:53:22 PM · #9 |
Regardless of the legality of the removal, I would bet that you would score better if you were to obscure or hide it in some other clever way.
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02/17/2005 03:54:00 PM · #10 |
| Not legal for Basic editing. If submitted under Advanced rules, I think this would inspire a healthy debate about whether that constitutes removal of a "major" element, since it pretty much makes the point of the photo. I personally think it's an interesting way to interpret that "challenge topic" and think you might consider making it available as a print even if you don't use it as an entry. I'm pretty sure there would be some SC members who would vote to DQ it. I have no idea what the percentages would be : ( |
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02/17/2005 03:54:20 PM · #11 |
The assumption here is that you were going to enter this in "Separation". You shouldn't be so specific about a potential entry prior to or during the challenge...especially *before* it's been submitted and yet to be evaluated for DQ.
At any rate, if I were on the Site Council, I would DQ this image under either ruleset. |
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02/17/2005 03:56:07 PM · #12 |
I think it's a great idea for Separation but you shouldn't have posted it here. Ya shoulda just entered it and seen what happened!!
Good idea, either way!
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02/17/2005 03:56:40 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by utro:
If God is considered a major element. Wow, that's sticky territory. |
If you're going to postulate the existence of God, then an assignment of "minor" status would seem too self-contradictory even for the most modern of organized religions to maintain. |
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02/17/2005 03:57:37 PM · #14 |
Why didn't you just change it to say "We Trust" and let the viewers decide "in who"?
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02/17/2005 03:58:28 PM · #15 |
The point is that it is a major element of the photo. In fact, the only thing that makes the photo fit into the challenge is the removal of that element.
(Really) great idea, but it is now digital art.
Message edited by author 2005-02-17 15:59:06.
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02/17/2005 03:59:30 PM · #16 |
| well damn, guess I'm gonna have to think of something else...... |
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02/17/2005 03:59:41 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by utro:
If God is considered a major element. Wow, that's sticky territory. |
If you're going to postulate the existence of God, then an assignment of "minor" status would seem too self-contradictory even for the most modern of organized religions to maintain. |
Good point. All or nothin' baby.
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02/17/2005 04:01:00 PM · #18 |
| THANKS!!!!!!! for the input. |
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02/17/2005 04:56:34 PM · #19 |
It's interesting; take the coin and use dremel motor to remove "God", polish the surface, and it's 100% legal. The photograph has been "made" by using a non-photographic technique, and incidentally a law has been broken by defacing the coin.
But do it with the clone tool, observing federal laws, and there's apparently a large percentage of members that would consider this to be "illegal editing".
Suppose I took my coin, put a speck of dirt on the word "God" to obscure it, then cloned out the (very minor) dirt speck, leaving the same result? IN other words, use handwork (like the dremel motor) to expunge the element, then use PS to clean up the result? Or how about if I photograph the coin, print the photo, cut out some BG, paste it over the "God", reshoot, then use healing brush to clean it up? If these were called for validation, wouldn't they be legal? That would not be a major element, that dirt speck or pasteover. Wouldn't my original validate my legality here?
This can be a really nit-picky issue, LOL.
Robt.
Message edited by author 2005-02-17 16:57:10.
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02/17/2005 05:20:14 PM · #20 |
| Hasn't it also been debated that money is a form of art and therefore cannot be used as a subject? I'm pretty sure people have been disqualified for it in the past. |
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02/17/2005 05:23:21 PM · #21 |
That's news to me, and there's been coins in some of the recent challenges, especially "old and new"... Anyway, custom cars are works of art and we had one ribbon last challenge...
Robt.
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02/17/2005 05:43:08 PM · #22 |
| I don't think it's completely illegal to "deface" the coin either ... I see those machines which stamp a souvenir out of a penny all over the place. There might be some limits on what you can do with it once you've created your art though. |
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02/17/2005 05:45:02 PM · #23 |
United States Code
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 17 - COINS AND CURRENCY
§ 333. Mutilation of national bank obligations
âWhoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or
unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill,
draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking
association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System,
with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence
of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than six months, or both.â
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02/17/2005 05:51:04 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by kyebosh:
United States Code
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 17 - COINS AND CURRENCY
§ 333. Mutilation of national bank obligations
âWhoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or
unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill,
draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking
association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System,
with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence
of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than six months, or both.â |
This law does not apply to coins, though there is a separate law which does.
Paul, the reason why those souvenir penny machines are legal is that the law only prohibits defacement of coins with a value greater than five cents.
-Terry
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02/17/2005 05:53:35 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
That's news to me, and there's been coins in some of the recent challenges, especially "old and new"... Anyway, custom cars are works of art and we had one ribbon last challenge...
Robt. |
Ah, this should be intersting: Robert runs into the 'artwork' rule. Covers head, adopts exaggerated 'hiding from explosion' posture.
e |
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