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06/14/2005 11:46:02 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by eqsite:
I was just curious why the vehement reaction to citing one of his reviews that I thought was fairly presented. |
To be fair, I just said I didn't think his articles were particularly helpful or impartial. How this is a "vehement reaction" I don't know :-) |
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06/14/2005 11:48:19 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by ganders:
Originally posted by eqsite:
I was just curious why the vehement reaction to citing one of his reviews that I thought was fairly presented. |
To be fair, I just said I didn't think his articles were particularly helpful or impartial. How this is a "vehement reaction" I don't know :-) |
Yes, that "loaded" word was in response to other responses I've seen elsewhere. No offense intended :) |
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06/14/2005 12:09:48 PM · #28 |
Heck I have a D70 and I love it! But.... after having it for almost a year I have to say that not having ISO 100 and a vertical grip is a bummer. I don't care what Ken R. says. I shoot a bit a everything so a vert grip would be great. I would have switched to the D70s if the only upgrade would've been ISO 100!!
That said, I can't afford a D2X so I'm waiting for the D200 (or equivalent). I do get moments of frustration seeing that Canon is leading the way and pumps out great cameras so fast and, yes, once in a while I do get the urge to sell and switch to Canon. That said, it's al part of a neverending learning process and pushing the limits of my current gear to it's max. :-)
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06/14/2005 12:29:26 PM · #29 |
Nikon does not make a verticle grip however one is made...
//tinyurl.com/avs9m
Message edited by author 2005-06-14 12:29:58. |
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06/14/2005 12:33:07 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by kosmikkreeper:
Heck I have a D70 and I love it! But.... after having it for almost a year I have to say that not having ISO 100 and a vertical grip is a bummer. I don't care what Ken R. says. I shoot a bit a everything so a vert grip would be great. I would have switched to the D70s if the only upgrade would've been ISO 100!!
That said, I can't afford a D2X so I'm waiting for the D200 (or equivalent). I do get moments of frustration seeing that Canon is leading the way and pumps out great cameras so fast and, yes, once in a while I do get the urge to sell and switch to Canon. That said, it's al part of a neverending learning process and pushing the limits of my current gear to it's max. :-) |
Why would you need ISO 100??? ISO 200 images are perfect.
You can get 3rd party vertical grip. I'm sure it is not Nikon quality but it may be very good. I saw it in forums somewhere. Google for it.
Nick |
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06/14/2005 01:10:05 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Nikolai1024:
Why would you need ISO 100??? ISO 200 images are perfect. |
When you want a longer shutter (for a really smooth lake, for instance) or a wider aperture (on a bright day when you want shallow DOF).
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06/14/2005 02:33:16 PM · #32 |
I believe the 20D also does not have true spot metering.
Both are excellent cameras though, I don't think you can go wrong with either. I just recently bought a d70 and am very happy with it. I read a lot of reviews on both cameras. Ultimately what made the final decision for me was looking at the pictures people took with the cameras on this site. I just went to the Equipment -> Cameras link and saw what real people are doing with the camera. I personally was more impressed with the D70.
If you are going to invest in an SLR it's important to keep in mind not only what you are getting today but what you may get in the future as well. Based on the companies history and reputation do you see the camera after this one ore likely being a Canon or Nikon? If you replace the body it's just one item, replacing all your glass is a whole other ball game.
Message edited by author 2005-06-14 14:37:05. |
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06/14/2005 02:39:06 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by megatherian:
...Ultimately what made the final decision for me was looking at the pictures people took with the cameras on this site. I just went to the Equipment -> Cameras link and saw what real people are doing with the camera. I personally was more impressed with the D70.... |
Remember it's NOT the camera it's the photographer...Put a Holga in Librodo's or jjbeguin's hands and they'll create masterpieces...
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06/14/2005 03:10:34 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by doctornick:
Originally posted by megatherian:
...Ultimately what made the final decision for me was looking at the pictures people took with the cameras on this site. I just went to the Equipment -> Cameras link and saw what real people are doing with the camera. I personally was more impressed with the D70.... |
Remember it's NOT the camera it's the photographer...Put a Holga in Librodo's or jjbeguin's hands and they'll create masterpieces... |
Agree with doctornick...
and just for fun, check out the average scores by a camera on dpchallenge..
Nikon Coolpix 4800 (avg. 5.608) outperforms D70 (avg. 5.365) :D |
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06/14/2005 05:18:14 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by gaurawa:
Originally posted by doctornick:
Originally posted by megatherian:
...Ultimately what made the final decision for me was looking at the pictures people took with the cameras on this site. I just went to the Equipment -> Cameras link and saw what real people are doing with the camera. I personally was more impressed with the D70.... |
Remember it's NOT the camera it's the photographer...Put a Holga in Librodo's or jjbeguin's hands and they'll create masterpieces... |
Agree with doctornick...
and just for fun, check out the average scores by a camera on dpchallenge..
Nikon Coolpix 4800 (avg. 5.608) outperforms D70 (avg. 5.365) :D |
Yes, we all know it's the photog not the camera. But what megatherian did is still a valid tool for helping him to make his decision, especially if he is planning on using it in this arena.
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06/14/2005 05:48:41 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by doctornick:
Originally posted by megatherian:
...Ultimately what made the final decision for me was looking at the pictures people took with the cameras on this site. I just went to the Equipment -> Cameras link and saw what real people are doing with the camera. I personally was more impressed with the D70.... |
Remember it's NOT the camera it's the photographer...Put a Holga in Librodo's or jjbeguin's hands and they'll create masterpieces... |
I do recommend the Holga as an inspriational bit of equipment - per thread here
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06/14/2005 06:08:44 PM · #37 |
There's a new Nikon coming out at the end of this month (here in Japan, at least) called the D50. I just saw a poster and model of it, but I know any don't specific details about it.
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06/14/2005 06:16:39 PM · #38 |
Isn't that the one that's supposed to be a reduced price (light) version of the D70 to compete more directly with Canon's Rebel line?
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06/14/2005 06:55:50 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by legalbeagle:
I must admit, I read the Ken Rockwell article before buying my 20D. It was semi useful in highlighting potential issues, but his writing style really gets my hackles up: he pretends to be impartial, but is in fact subject to a significant bias. His choice of comparisons to make is always made in such a way as to (with me here using an emotive and imprecise term) "belittle" the Canon (as I recall), while promoting the best of the D70 features.
He does it in such a way that it is difficult to pin examples down. I would hate to have an argument with him: I bet he is as slippery as they come in a debate. I imagine him as being the kind of person who holds up examples that are not quite right, subtly manipulated to suit his purposes, so as to appear to be crowd pleasingly straightforward, and impossible to rebut in a crowd pleasing fashion. I am feeling irritated by just thinking about that style of argument - makes me cringe.
Anyway - Ken does have some good points, and his site is educational, but the D70-20D comparison makes me cringe, and I cannot explain why in straightforward terms. |
I have been looking at the Nikon and Canon recently. I have read a lot of posts and reviews. It seems to me comparing the D70 and the 20D is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. Comparing the D70 to the 300D/350D is more like it.
I also cringe at reading this and you are right he has subtly manipulated to make the more expensive Canon look bad. I would be surprised if any 20d owner would ever dream of swapping for a D70, or for that matter a 300/350d.
My 2c worth |
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06/14/2005 07:09:36 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Steveinnz:
I have been looking at the Nikon and Canon recently. I have read a lot of posts and reviews. It seems to me comparing the D70 and the 20D is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. Comparing the D70 to the 300D/350D is more like it.
I also cringe at reading this and you are right he has subtly manipulated to make the more expensive Canon look bad. I would be surprised if any 20d owner would ever dream of swapping for a D70, or for that matter a 300/350d.
My 2c worth |
Indeed, price-wise d70 is in the same ballpark as 300/350d, however in feel/built quality/feature-wise it is more close to 20d, lagging behind in some respects, but winning in "feel" (for me). That, and the noticeable price difference prompted me to choose Nikon (plus, I had one decent Nikkor lens from my film days)
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06/14/2005 07:16:52 PM · #41 |
| It's all about the glass, and at this point in time Canon as the best glass available. |
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06/14/2005 07:44:58 PM · #42 |
Despite my considerable investment in Nikon glass, I am still seriously considering the 20d instead of the D70. If all else fails, I can adapt my Nikon primes to the Canon for the price of an adapter. That avenue has its drawbacks: no automatic anything! But the 20d appears to be a clear winner over the D70 in terms of image size and quality. Of course the price is $400-$500 more!
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06/14/2005 07:57:29 PM · #43 |
Canon. No Nikon. No Canon. I'm so confused.
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06/14/2005 08:06:15 PM · #44 |
You can't be serious in comparing these two cameras. The D70 was barely a competitor for the 10D in its time, the 20D is a much more modern camera that's an entirely different class to the D70 and this is (or at least used to be) reflected in the price. There is not a single feature that the D70 can even match the 20D on, let alone surpass. There is just no comparison.
I'd rather not get into the nikon vs canon lens debate particularly, but i'd say if your choice is based on the system not the body, decide based on your purpose. For instance, i mainly prefer to shoot wildlife, and as such i don't know where i'd be without canon's image-stabilised long L glass. Nikon may have other strengths over canon, i don't know.
Also, did someone say something about the 350D having the same features as the 20D? Amusing... :)
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06/14/2005 10:07:11 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by riot:
... There is not a single feature that the D70 can even match the 20D on, let alone surpass. ... |
As was pointed out earlier in this thread, and in the Ken R write-up, the Nikon D70 has a faster flash sync speed than the 20D, 1/500 compared to 1/250. There may be other features, or specs, where the D70 compares favorably.
But in general I would agree that it is not a fair comparison.
Which lens were you referring to when you said "to shoot wildlife, .... i don't know where i'd be without canon's image-stabilised long L glass."?
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06/14/2005 10:15:01 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Gil P:
It's all about the glass, and at this point in time Canon as the best glass available. |
no. it's not. prove it. most people say nikon's edge although they're lagging with bodies is in their glass quality.
In any aspect, who cares no one will know the difference, and anyone who does spends too much damn time analyzing 100% crops and looking for imperfections than actually taking pictures.
Just buy a camera. Think of it this way - camera now =take more pics, or debate about something worthless and put off purchase forever = take less pics. If there isn't some feature you absolutely need, it makes no difference. |
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06/14/2005 10:41:00 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by riot:
...There is not a single feature that the D70 can even match the 20D on, let alone surpass. ... |
spot-metering. |
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06/14/2005 10:43:13 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
the Nikon D70 has a faster flash sync speed than the 20D, 1/500 compared to 1/250. There may be other features, or specs, where the D70 compares favorably.
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I stand corrected, i didn't know about that. I'll double check before i make ignorant claims like that again :)
Originally posted by coolhar:
Which lens were you referring to when you said "to shoot wildlife, .... i don't know where i'd be without canon's image-stabilised long L glass."? |
My baby, 100-400L. I don't really know much about nikon lenses, but i understand the nearest thing to it is this? I also don't know much solid fact about optical quality differences, just the results of the constant nikon vs canon debate, so i'll refrain from commenting on quality... however, it seems canon's IS is universally considered far superior to nikon's VR business. Also that site seems to include a brief comparison scrolled down a little, which is rather unfavourable to the nikon.
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06/14/2005 11:03:47 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by megatherian:
Originally posted by riot:
...There is not a single feature that the D70 can even match the 20D on, let alone surpass. ... |
spot-metering. |
Ok, D70's 3mm beats the 20D's 10mm. Another one i hadn't spotted. Any more? :)
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06/14/2005 11:05:36 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by petrakka:
In any aspect, who cares no one will know the difference, and anyone who does spends too much damn time analyzing 100% crops and looking for imperfections than actually taking pictures. |
Find me any serious dslr photographer who doesn't...
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